My first throw-n-mow attempt at food plotting

[Crimson n' Camo]

I understand where you're coming from C&C. But the most guys, especially first time plotters, want a plot that draws deer. As a deer draw, cereal rye is not at the top of the list. Of course, a less attractive but successful plot of rye is far superior to a failed plot of even the best deer draw. So your recommendation has a lot of merit.

Cereal rye can be planted even in mid-winter in some areas of the country. So I wonder if a good strategy would be to plant a mix of wheat & oats in the Fall, then replant with rye later - either at the end of deer season or earlier if the wheat/oats fail. That would have the benefit of a good draw during the hunting season and biomass build in the Spring.

I haven’t seen anything that would point me to believing that cereal rye is “unattractive”. I think there’s more to it than that. I live in a place where most everyone is plotting in sand. Plant health plays a big factor in that situation. This year I’m gonna plant a mix of cereal rye and oats….I believe I can sprout oats just fine now.

My neighbor has a food plot of similar size only 300 yards across the swamp from my field. I don’t know for sure but I assume they probably plant it in wheat like most everyone else does. Wheat does not do nearly as well in poor soils so their field was very likely struggling by Jan. I make those assumptions having seen a LOT of food plots in the area through my blood tracking gig. The vast majority of the fields look rough in Jan…..There ended up being 24 deer this afternoon in my 2 acre field of cereal rye just before dark. It just got too dark to take of pic at that point………….

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

But if you want clover in it eventually you cannot beat using cereal rye. It is unmatched in my opinion on keeping weeds suppressed especially after it dies. But that is the beauty of it. It is fairly easy to try different things and not have to worry about all your wasted time and fuel money if it did fail. The biggest mistake I think people make trying this method is not increasing their seeding rate. You will have more failed seed germination in this method than you would have by covering the seed with soil in a conventional method due to the fact that not all seed might make good enough seed to soil contact or it might not get some that covering it and it dries out soon after sprouting.

I agree with you that folks need to up the seeding rate in the very beginning but I have to disagree that folks will always get better germination rates with traditional planting methods. There’s more to it than just seed to soil contact. Again, speaking of plotting in sand like many of us are doing in my area……sand dries out really fast. So even if you make a perfect tilled up seed bed and cultipack it afterwards…..you still may not get a good stand. The reason is because of harsh soil conditions. If that topsoil dries out before the seedlings get sprouted and established, then you’ll likely has low seedling survival. This is why many sandy plots still look sparse even when people seed with high rates. I believe that I could drag in a 100 lbs/ac in my field now and establish a better stand than someone tilling in a similar field. All my seeds may not get perfect seed to soil contact but if I get a good rain on it then the conditions will stay nice and moist long enough for the seeds to get started.

 

[shawn cox]

I agree with you that folks need to up the seeding rate in the very beginning but I have to disagree that folks will always get better germination rates with traditional planting methods. There’s more to it than just seed to soil contact. Again, speaking of plotting in sand like many of us are doing in my area……sand dries out really fast. So even if you make a perfect tilled up seed bed and cultipack it afterwards…..you still may not get a good stand. The reason is because of harsh soil conditions. If that topsoil dries out before the seedlings get sprouted and established, then you’ll likely has low seedling survival. This is why many sandy plots still look sparse even when people seed with high rates. I believe that I could drag in a 100 lbs/ac in my field now and establish a better stand than someone tilling in a similar field. All my seeds may not get perfect seed to soil contact but if I get a good rain on it then the conditions will stay nice and moist long enough for the seeds to get started.

I agree completely. I was mainly meaning someone that might not have any experience with throw n mow verse a conventional tillage. I was suggesting that someone might not have a good enough stand of growth to cover the seed good verse actually using tillage and covering the seed. There would be more barren ground for the seed to dry out quicker without the proper rain, however I do know the seed will grow fine even on bare soil if it gets the proper rain at the right times. I have been lucky a time or two on some areas where I had very poor vegetation growing and I saw the rains and planted anyway. However like you stated sandy soil is awful and I like to use the throw n mow method to try to improve the soil conditions on these sites because they struggle mightily no matter how they are planted if rain is sparse. I have one 2 acre plot that I am trying to get it better now. It is very sandy and I planted arrowleaf and chicory in it last fall. the chicory struggled and most died off I think, the arrowleaf has a lot of seed heads on it. My plan this year is to only plant wrens Abruzzi rye in it at the normal rate and spray and mow and see how much clover comes back from the seed bank. then next spring I am going to plant buckwheat and sunn hemp in it I think. Hopefully it will have better soil conditions in a couple years.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I agree with you that folks need to up the seeding rate in the very beginning but I have to disagree that folks will always get better germination rates with traditional planting methods. There’s more to it than just seed to soil contact. Again, speaking of plotting in sand like many of us are doing in my area……sand dries out really fast. So even if you make a perfect tilled up seed bed and cultipack it afterwards…..you still may not get a good stand. The reason is because of harsh soil conditions. If that topsoil dries out before the seedlings get sprouted and established, then you’ll likely has low seedling survival. This is why many sandy plots still look sparse even when people seed with high rates. I believe that I could drag in a 100 lbs/ac in my field now and establish a better stand than someone tilling in a similar field. All my seeds may not get perfect seed to soil contact but if I get a good rain on it then the conditions will stay nice and moist long enough for the seeds to get started.

Germination rate is where no-till is king, you plant it, every seed grows, things have to be off really bad for no-till to fail. I agree that seed rates should be increased for throw n mow, but most first timers seed brassicas too thick anyway, and germination isn't the main problem with throw n mow, it's weed competition. Rye, as you mentioned, usually eliminates weed problems, but a lot of guys are working with dense, green organic matter. In this type of field there is an advantage in doing throw n mow plantings in strips, keeping broadleafs and grains separate so that you have the option to spray if necessary.

 

[shawn cox]

Germination rate is where no-till is king, you plant it, every seed grows, things have to be off really bad for no-till to fail. I agree that seed rates should be increased for throw n mow, but most first timers seed brassicas too thick anyway, and germination isn't the main problem with throw n mow, it's weed competition. Rye, as you mentioned, usually eliminates weed problems, but a lot of guys are working with dense, green organic matter. In this type of field there is an advantage in doing throw n mow plantings in strips, keeping broadleafs and grains separate so that you have the option to spray if necessary.

I guess it all depends on how you approach your planting to deal with the weeds. I seem to get less weeds doing the throw n mow method as to opposed of the few times we did conventional tillage. when we did tillage after we sprayed and killed it off we tilled exposing a fresh seed bank. when I throw n mow, I have sprayed and wait for it to die and then plant and mow. A lot less weeds for me. Others may have had different experiences than me but that is what I have found in my plotting. I also believe that it is easier to plant a plot in different sections with different varieties instead of mixing it all and planting because like you say you are limiting your options on dealing with any weeds that will come up.

 

[dtabor]

I did a throw, mow, spray and roll in this wooded plot. This has been a clover plot for the last 4 years. It was over taken by weeds because I couldn't get up in the woods to mow it with the farmers crops blocking the way. I weed whipped it a couple times but couldn't get ahead of the weeds. Tried Butryac back in May and killed off some of the weeds but again not enough of them.

Decided to start over with the throw, mow and spray. WR/Oats/Clover and some forage radish. I have plenty of thatch, a little worried I had too much thatch over the seed. The soil was damp and the weeds/clover were wet when we mowed. Should be plenty of moisture, time will tell. Ill try to post some pictures in early September when I get back up there to hunt and or check the plot. View attachment 8829

Im trying T&M for the first time this year as well. One of my plots looked just like this. Im running out of time up here in the north so I sprayed then couple days later seeded and actually dragged over the weeds and it looked just like your picture. There was timely rain just before and after planting. I went in the next day and was worried about whether the mat was too much so ran a quick push mower over it set high up and hit it with another dose of gly. Mowing probably didnt help but made me feel better about it! Hoping it works out. Will see in a week or so if the gly killed enough to let the other seeds grow.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Im trying T&M for the first time this year as well. One of my plots looked just like this. Im running out of time up here in the north so I sprayed then couple days later seeded and actually dragged over the weeds and it looked just like your picture. There was timely rain just before and after planting. I went in the next day and was worried about whether the mat was too much so ran a quick push mower over it set high up and hit it with another dose of gly. Mowing probably didnt help but made me feel better about it! Hoping it works out. Will see in a week or so if the gly killed enough to let the other seeds grow.

Good luck with that plot. If the seeds have soil contact under the mulch it should work. Let us know how this works out for you.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I guess it all depends on how you approach your planting to deal with the weeds. I seem to get less weeds doing the throw n mow method as to opposed of the few times we did conventional tillage. when we did tillage after we sprayed and killed it off we tilled exposing a fresh seed bank. when I throw n mow, I have sprayed and wait for it to die and then plant and mow. A lot less weeds for me. Others may have had different experiences than me but that is what I have found in my plotting. I also believe that it is easier to plant a plot in different sections with different varieties instead of mixing it all and planting because like you say you are limiting your options on dealing with any weeds that will come up.

Throw n mow will always be less NEW weeds than tillage because of the undisturbed seed bank. And a some crops can outgrow whatever new weeds that come. But it's the OLD weeds with big established root systems that are going to be a potential problem for guys doing throw n mow in thick, tall green OM, mowing, then spraying after mowing, with a mixed planting that can't be sprayed after germination. If the herbicide after mowing doesn't burn down the field it's not going to be a nice plot. In some conditions like this a throw n roll with a fluted roller like Baker has would work better.

 

[shawn cox]

Throw n mow will always be less NEW weeds than tillage because of the undisturbed seed bank. And a some crops can outgrow whatever new weeds that come. But it's the OLD weeds with big established root systems that are going to be a potential problem for guys doing throw n mow in thick, tall green OM, mowing, then spraying after mowing, with a mixed planting that can't be sprayed after germination. If the herbicide after mowing doesn't burn down the field it's not going to be a nice plot. In some conditions like this a throw n roll with a fluted roller like Baker has would work better.

I like the idea of having a crimper roller. It would be nice to have.

 

[Rempump870]

I agree with increasing the seeding rate. When I first started this 2 years ago, I didn't put down enough seed, then last year I think I put down too much rye and oats and it choked out the radish. But man did the clover come in this spring and summer. Ive never had this much clover growing in the sand box I call my food plots!

My goal of this wooded plot is to have a clover plot for the next few years. I upped the seeding rate to 4.5lbs of clover with 4 different varieties. I put down 2- 5 gallon buckets of 60/40 WR to Oats and then included 2lbs of forage radish to help the soil. The plot in the picture extends to the left and goes another 75 yards down. I am guessing it is a 1/4 acre total. (I also spread some seed into the weeds on the edges, figure I would help the bunnies out if it takes)

 

[Rempump870]

I got up to the land this weekend to check on the plots. My little plot in the woods that I posted about last week is looking pretty good. The gly seemed to kill a lot if not all of the weeds. The roller also seemed to suppress and or kill the weeds. The clover has sprouted and the winter rye is taking off. The oats are pretty small. The forage radish is sprouted and about 2-3 inches tall. Deer are already nipping the tops of the rye.

 

[shawn cox]

starting to get my plots ready for the fall.

 

[Rempump870]

I haven’t seen anything that would point me to believing that cereal rye is “unattractive”. I think there’s more to it than that. I live in a place where most everyone is plotting in sand. Plant health plays a big factor in that situation. This year I’m gonna plant a mix of cereal rye and oats….I believe I can sprout oats just fine now.

My neighbor has a food plot of similar size only 300 yards across the swamp from my field. I don’t know for sure but I assume they probably plant it in wheat like most everyone else does. Wheat does not do nearly as well in poor soils so their field was very likely struggling by Jan. I make those assumptions having seen a LOT of food plots in the area through my blood tracking gig. The vast majority of the fields look rough in Jan…..There ended up being 24 deer this afternoon in my 2 acre field of cereal rye just before dark. It just got too dark to take of pic at that point………….

That is a great looking plot!

 

[Mennoniteman]

View attachment 9404 View attachment 9405 View attachment 9406 View attachment 9407 View attachment 9408 View attachment 9409 starting to get my plots ready for the fall.

Looking good. You'd be a little late for Pennsylvania. I might put out a little more oats and rye, otherwise I'm finished planting for this year. What're you planting?

 

[shawn cox]

I planted some daikon radishes a couple of weekends ago. They are up and I did that because they are just some areas I am wanting to turn into plots. I added some wheat, oats and rye to them this weekend.
For my main plots I still have some alyce clover growing and the deer are still hitting it good so I left it alone other than topping the weeds out of it. I will plant it later in the year when the frost kills it with the 3 way mix of oats, rye and wheat. I have 3 plots that are around 1/2 acre each that I planted some Hancocks Killer clover mix in just to try it. It has crimson, landino and arrowleaf and also 10% alfalfa. They had it on sale and I wanted to try it to see how the alfalfa would do because I hear it is picky. I hope to get some reseeding out of some of my other clover plots but I aslo reseeded them with a little bit of clover. I am a little early planting but I only did a few of my plots because I just wanted to do some lol. If they fail I can still fix them for the season. I will plant my main plots first week of October. I am using medium red clover, arrow leaf clover and white clover. My white clover is going to consist of Durana and Imperial Whitetail that I bought when they had the buy one get one free deal. I am also experimenting with a bag of renovation clover to see how it does. I will also put my 3 way mix in all of the plots.

 

[shawn cox]

Also forgot to add I got 100 lbs of AWP to mix in as a little candy lol

 

[shawn cox]

This plot is doing pretty good. I have it broken down into three sections and just thought to snap a pic as I was leaving. It is in the shape of a U. I have a 3 way mix of oats, wheat and rye planted in all of it. I planted DR and AWP in a section. I planted MR clover and arrowleaf in a section and WIC in a section. The hogs got a lot of the AWP and 3 way mix but the rest came up really good.

 

[shawn cox]

Here is my perennial plot of white clover and chicory that has feed the deer all year so far. this plot will be 1 year old in December. A nice young 8 pointer that was enjoying it the first of October. The top part of this plot was just replanted in some 3 way mix and with some clovers and radishes.

 

[Bowman]

I planted some daikon radishes a couple of weekends ago. They are up and I did that because they are just some areas I am wanting to turn into plots. I added some wheat, oats and rye to them this weekend.
For my main plots I still have some alyce clover growing and the deer are still hitting it good so I left it alone other than topping the weeds out of it. I will plant it later in the year when the frost kills it with the 3 way mix of oats, rye and wheat. I have 3 plots that are around 1/2 acre each that I planted some Hancocks Killer clover mix in just to try it. It has crimson, landino and arrowleaf and also 10% alfalfa. They had it on sale and I wanted to try it to see how the alfalfa would do because I hear it is picky. I hope to get some reseeding out of some of my other clover plots but I aslo reseeded them with a little bit of clover. I am a little early planting but I only did a few of my plots because I just wanted to do some lol. If they fail I can still fix them for the season. I will plant my main plots first week of October. I am using medium red clover, arrow leaf clover and white clover. My white clover is going to consist of Durana and Imperial Whitetail that I bought when they had the buy one get one free deal. I am also experimenting with a bag of renovation clover to see how it does. I will also put my 3 way mix in all of the plots.

Need some help. i see that you are in Georgia, I am in northern Michigan. I am confused about "I will plant later in the year when the frost kills it with the 3 way mix of oats, rye and wheat". I am confused.

 

[Bowman]

I like the idea of having a crimper roller. It would be nice to have.

How about a cultipacker?