Lime on standing crop

[Drycreek]

Ok guys, I got a new soil test on a wheat/medium red clover plot that I planted last fall. The wheat was a great stand and the clover looks good too, and I'm thinking as it warms up more it will just get better. Obviously, I planted the MRC in order to have a crop as far into summer as possible without the month of bare dirt that I normally have when transitioning from winter plots to summer plots. This is my virgin voyage into this type of plotting, so I'm in need of assistance. My soil test calls for a little more lime which I will spread with my three point spreader. The PH was 6 and I'd like it a little higher. My question is, how effective is it to just broadcast lime on top of the plot. Should I set my disc barely off of straight and run it over the plot, and would that be detrimental to my clover ? The soil is sandy and quite easy to disc.

As long as I'm looking for advice, tell me what you would do when going back to wheat in September or October. Keep in mind I have no drill, and the hogs will eat any seed not buried. I would almost have to drag it in. If I have a good crop of MRC, I really would like to try and lightly disc in wheat seed but I don't know if that will work. Has anyone ever done that ? Of course, all this hinges on whether the clover survives the summer here, which can be very hot and dry, and usually is for a month or so. Thanks !

 

[OkieKubota]

I almost always lime right on top of my clover plots...it will get into the soil with a little time...

As far as wheat into established clover. May be tough unless you disk it in...the clover will choke out the wheat.

My method for a new perennial clover plot is to fall plant into disked soil with WR/WW/Oats/radishes. The other plants protect the clover and I let everything go to head a re-seed itself. Usually get 3 years of WR this way without having to do any replanting...

 

[MarkDarvin]

The PH was 6 and I'd like it a little higher. My question is, how effective is it to just broadcast lime on top of the plot. Should I set my disc barely off of straight and run it over the plot, and would that be detrimental to my clover ? The soil is sandy and quite easy to disc.

If you already have a 6 handle on your pH and it's sandy, I'd just fling it out there and leave it lay. You're gonna get activity as soon as it's rained in, and if it doesn't rain, a 6 anything pH isn't going to kill your plot.

What kind of lime are you using? Would you post your soil test?

 

[Drycreek]

Here's the soil test. I designated IC peas for the crop in case the clover is a disappointment, but I'm thinking I won't plant anything here this spring, at least that's the objective. This is my first planting of an annual clover, what can I expect of it ?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Wow, that is light. I'd start with a 1000 lbs/ac of tractor supply pell lime. You'll want the dolomitc lime to help close up some pore space in your sand.

I might try broadcasting some barley into that clover yet this spring. Barley is water thrifty, and can help start building up some root mass. I know those pigs can be a challenge, but perhaps baiting them with corn away from the plot may buy you enough time to get the barley going.

 

[Drycreek]

Thanks guys. Supposed to rain the next couple days, so I'll put the lime out next week in time for the next rain.

 

[Jason Broom]

Definitely take the time to find the dolomitic lime; the 10:1 ratio of Ca to Mg is hurting your CEC, along with the needed K (obviously).

On sandy ground, it is often best to not incorporate lime, as you run the risk of having it wash right out the root zone very quickly, depending on particulate size. On my sandiest soils, I apply lime in lower quantities than suggested, but far more frequently. (If 1,000 lbs is recommended, I might apply 400 lbs twice a year, instead.)

One option for planting cereal grains into standing clover, depending on the height of the clover at planting, is to broadcast the grains into the clover, mow it pretty tight (scalp it) and then cultipack. This may or may not be appropriate in places where clover dies out over the summer or during any period where a lack of rain is likely.

 

[Drycreek]

Definitely take the time to find the dolomitic lime; the 10:1 ratio of Ca to Mg is hurting your CEC, along with the needed K (obviously).

On sandy ground, it is often best to not incorporate lime, as you run the risk of having it wash right out the root zone very quickly, depending on particulate size. On my sandiest soils, I apply lime in lower quantities than suggested, but far more frequently. (If 1,000 lbs is recommended, I might apply 400 lbs twice a year, instead.)

One option for planting cereal grains into standing clover, depending on the height of the clover at planting, is to broadcast the grains into the clover, mow it pretty tight (scalp it) and then cultipack. This may or may not be appropriate in places where clover dies out over the summer or during any period where a lack of rain is likely.

We'll see how well that clover survives the summer, but I'm putting lime and fertilizer out tomorrow as soon as the dew gets off. Supposed to rain this weekend, and hopefully not enough to wash it away. Thanks to all !

 

[Mennoniteman]

I'm with the crowd that says keep your disc out of there, with your sandy soil you will hurt the clover more than helping it. Lime spread on top will get to the roots on its own, and pretty quickly too in sandy soil.

 

[Drycreek]

I've seen the acronym CEC a couple times on the forum. What is it ?

 

[MarkDarvin]

I've seen the acronym CEC a couple times on the forum. What is it ?

It's a quick way to look at the particle size composition of your soil. It's also a key component in making a lime recommendation from a pounds per acre perspective and a type of lime perspective (calcitic vs dolomitic). It's also a factor in how much nitrogen you can put on and hold in a single application. Short of growing high bushel corn, the nitrogen capacity thing isn't such a big deal in food plots.

High CEC soils are more difficult to change with lime and cation elements (potassium). Those who subscribe to the nutrient balance theory love a sandy soil because it's easy to raise your potassium. If you have 2500 ppm (5000 lbs) calcium per acre, it's gonna take a pant-load of potash to raise your potassium %. It took me 800 lbs of potash to go from 2% potassium to 6%, but I bet that clover is going to be the talk of the woods among the deer this year.

https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/doc/library/articles/cec_bph_and_percent_sat

 

[Drycreek]

Mark, I appreciate the link. Some of it was above my pay grade, but I think I get the gist. I'm gonna have to go back and look at some of my other soil tests now !

 

[MarkDarvin]

Mark, I appreciate the link. Some of it was above my pay grade, but I think I get the gist. I'm gonna have to go back and look at some of my other soil tests now !

Ask questions guy. Us northern guys are stuck looking at mud and frost at best. Some of us are still looking at a foot of snow.

 

[Drycreek]

I'm bringing this back up because I'm stymied about my clover. Bear in mind this is my first planting of an annual clover and I don't know quite what to expect. If I were dealing with white clovers, I know they would be taking off right now, but this MRC looks like crap. During the fall/winter it looked pretty good, and I had quite a bit of it in the wheat. (I had an excellent wheat plot BTW). Now it's really spotty, not growing very well, and hasn't bloomed at all. Maybe it's too soon to bloom, IDK.

It has been much wetter and a little cooler than normal here this spring, but I really can't see that being a factor as it looked thicker and better during the winter. The deer have quit browsing the wheat, but I had scads of hogs eating in this plot all winter long and into the spring. I haven't checked sd cards in three weeks or so and have no idea if the hogs are still eating in the plot. I'll be going tommorrow to look at those.

I added the appropriate lime and fertilizer in late March and had a couple of nice little rains before the floods came in late April/early May so it should have got to the roots in this sandy soil.

H E L P !

 

[Creek chub]

Did the clover stay flooded for awhile?

 

[Drycreek]

Did the clover stay flooded for awhile?

No, it didn't. The plot is on a slight slope and on high ground.

 

[Creek chub]

No, it didn't. The plot is on a slight slope and on high ground.

Has it turned yellow?

 

[MarkDarvin]

I added the appropriate lime and fertilizer in late March and had a couple of nice little rains before the floods came in late April/early May so it should have got to the roots in this sandy soil.
H E L P !

What did you put on for fertilizer?

 

[Drycreek]

Has it turned yellow?

No, what there is of it looks ok, just not growing much and not much of it

What did you put on for fertilizer?

The appropriate amount of the fertilizers as suggested in my soil test above. Plus the lime of course.
Edit: I didn't show the fertilizer part of my test above, but I followed the suggestions proportionately to the size of the plot.

 

[weekender21]

My MRC in 6b hasn't taken off yet either. The CC is in full bloom, I know MRC blooms later but not sure how much later.