How do you handle cuts with too many downed logs?

[Weasel]

I am trying to establish some wildlife cuts in my maple and tupelo deserts so the sun can get to the forest floor, thicken up and create more edge. I have tried hinge cutting with higher cuts, chest high plus, but often times when I get a nice set of "tunnels" established, I have to drop a larger tree which knocks everything flat to the ground. Then I'm left with a mess that no deer can get through. I am guessing my only option is to go back through and cut paths. I seem to have success when I can hinge the larger trees first but that is rarely an option. I usually have to clear out a bunch of smaller stuff so the bigger trees can fall. It's frustrating doing all of that cutting then having to go back in to cut paths. Another tactic I have done successfully in younger growth is to cut, move and stack brush but boy, that will wear you out quick.

 

[Chainsaw]

I run into the same thing Weasel in some of my apple tree releases;Double girdling and leaving them standing works on most large trees. It takes a while but once the big ones are dead the sun still gets to do its magic. I know the feeling of wanting to complete the job before moving on to the next but it isn't always possible. Seldom but not never does the eventual rotting/falling of the giant dead trees hit one of the apple trees I was trying to save. Pretty much most things we do take years to reach peak benefits and this is one of those cases.

Once I released a three acre area of apple trees and had way too many stems on the ground; It was four years before the deer developed paths thru it. For the first four years they walked completely around it.

The other way is to have it clear cut by loggers. Here we get 2 to 3 dollars a ton for the wood chips they create. It doesn't amount to much but the job gets done and they did the work.

 

[F12Mahon]

I run into the same thing Weasel in some of my apple tree releases;Double girdling and leaving them standing works on most large trees. It takes a while but once the big ones are dead the sun still gets to do its magic. I know the feeling of wanting to complete the job before moving on to the next but it isn't always possible. Seldom but not never does the eventual rotting/falling of the giant dead trees hit one of the apple trees I was trying to save.

Question. Could you create a hinge like you were going to fell the tree but make it fat so it doesn't fall right away? I would think it might help direct the direction of the fall. Let the wind push it over one of two ways. I haven't tried it, just a thought I had reading your comment.

 

[Weasel]

Thanks Chainsaw. I have a forester that I have used on other properties in the past, I really need to get him to take a look at what I have here. Always thinking my junk trees aren't worth anything but even doing something like you did for the wood chips would be a good option.

I have done some girdling. Here's an apple I released right up against a big tupelo that was bigger than what I like to mess with. I also girdled the big maple to the right.

 

[j-bird]

I always try to start with dropping the biggest trees first. I then also start on the outside edge and work my way in. This tends to prevent snags and hang-up and then I go back and hinge the smaller trees. Dropping the bigger trees also bends some of the smaller ones over in the process....less work for me. Yes you can always cut trails if you need to and you can cut like you show in your 2nd pic of the OP, but why drag off the tops? Leave them there... who cares. They will quickly break down in a year or so and be a non-issue. Only way I would be messing with them is if your building a windrow or the like to steer deer traffic or building brush piles for other wildlife or build some back cover for beds.

 

[Weasel]

You are correct J. There's no need to drag off the tops if you are just opening up the forest floor and deer can get through. I used the pic in the OP as an example. The reason I removed the tops in that particular clearing was because I was planting soft mast trees in there and I want plenty of room and sun light for the new trees. Plus it will be easier for me to get in there and maintain around them.

I'll have to get a few pics of the messy ones I have made. I can't belly crawl through some of them. Guess I will be cutting deer trails through those.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

[E_308]

I would hack and squirt and kill them standing. Still get your sunlight for the floor regrowth. Is prescribed fire and option for the areas that are two thick? If there are no "good" trees and you are just looking to regen I would run a fire through it in a year or so. It would get plenty hot so might get hard on standing trees? Also it takes a lot to be to thick for a deer to make a trail through. I have seen what look like rabbit trails with deer tracks in them coming out of some of my hinge cut I have made to specifically block deer.

 

[Chainsaw]

Question. Could you create a hinge like you were going to fell the tree but make it fat so it doesn't fall right away? I would think it might help direct the direction of the fall. Let the wind push it over one of two ways. I haven't tried it, just a thought I had reading your comment.

F-12, I like that thinking out of the box. I have cut 1/2 way thru some trees(small numbers of eight to twenty inch poplars) and left them for the wind to knock down. However in the few instances that technique was used it was to knock down the tree within a week or so. So far they have fallen in the planned directions except if the hinge(the half of the tree left circumference uncut) breaks of course.

In contrast when girdling a tree we are talking from four to fifteen years for it to completely fall down (my best recollection from the earliest ones my Dad and I had done here way back when). Trees falling from girdling here have usually fallen a piece at a time over a period of years. And finally the last part to fall has usually been the bottom ten ft or so of the trunk which is often just mush at that point. So I don't think that a partial felling cut would help the cause in the case of girdling. Keep thinking of different ways to tackle each challenge though; it pays off more often than not.

 

[Blizzard Ridge]

Weasel I wouldn't worry about thinking it is too thick for the deer to get into. As long as leave an edge for them to travel if they want to get up in the mess to bed, they will. The thicker more tangled up you make it the better it will be in the long run. What we think is too tangled up usually comes out about perfect.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I've had the same issues, big tree collapses the beautiful hinge cuts up to that point. It's good advice to try to cut the big ones first. Cut just a few smaller ones to make an opening first. Also a plastic wedge can help a lot in controlling the direction of a big tree and dropping it slower because less cutting is needed. Use the tip of your saw to remove the middle of a bigger tree and let more outer bark attached will drop it slower and less of an issue with ripping loose and going flat on the ground. Hinge cuts should be above a deer's eyesight. For the inexperienced tht is potentially dangerous on larger trees.

 

[Mennoniteman]

also if hinging along a trail sometimes I use my track skid loader to push trees over, this givesmore directional control and less depth of cut drops them slower and keeps them off the ground. Never do this from behind the tree as the tree can kick back and get you. Use the corner of the bucket and turn into it sideways.

 

[F12Mahon]

F-12, I like that thinking out of the box. I have cut 1/2 way thru some trees(small numbers of eight to twenty inch poplars) and left them for the wind to knock down. However in the few instances that technique was used it was to knock down the tree within a week or so. So far they have fallen in the planned directions except if the hinge(the half of the tree left circumference uncut) breaks of course.

In contrast when girdling a tree we are talking from four to fifteen years for it to completely fall down (my best recollection from the earliest ones my Dad and I had done here way back when). Trees falling from girdling here have usually fallen a piece at a time over a period of years. And finally the last part to fall has usually been the bottom ten ft or so of the trunk which is often just mush at that point. So I don't think that a partial felling cut would help the cause in the case of girdling. Keep thinking of different ways to tackle each challenge though; it pays off more often than not.

I wasn't clear. I meant in addition to the girdle do the fat hinge cuts. The tree will still die. It may come down faster with the hinge.

Eugene

 

[Weezy]

I feel your pain Weasel.
In a situation where your smaller stuff is gonna hang up your larger tree I usually cut 1/2 way through the smaller trees, then try to hinge the bigger one on top of them. Or i might try to fell the larger tree in a unobtrusive direction, possibly against the lean as long as its not to severe using a conventional notch cut, bore cut leaving a decent amount of holding wood and strap, pound wedges in each side of bore cut, cut strap, insert another wedge where the strap was and start pounding away. Just need to have alot of various size wedges.

 

[Weezy]

If you want it cleared out like that 2nd picture and have a couple thousands bucks get a grapple for your tractor your back will thank you.

 

[Chummer]

Thanks Chainsaw. I have a forester that I have used on other properties in the past, I really need to get him to take a look at what I have here. Always thinking my junk trees aren't worth anything but even doing something like you did for the wood chips would be a good option.

I have done some girdling. Here's an apple I released right up against a big tupelo that was bigger than what I like to mess with. I also girdled the big maple to the right.

I could be wrong but I don't see anything in this pic that would stop those two big trees from falling. I drop a lot of big trees and as long as they have room to get a little momentum they go down.

 

[Brushpile]

I hack and squirt large trees, which kills the tree. Then the tree gradually decomposes over time, and won't usually harm surrounding trees.

 

[Weasel]

I could be wrong but I don't see anything in this pic that would stop those two big trees from falling. I drop a lot of big trees and as long as they have room to get a little momentum they go down.

Nothing stopping those two big trees except a cautious dude behind the chainsaw. If they're not leaning the way I want them to go and they're over my comfort diameter, I just girdle them. I guess I could drag the come-a-long around but I don't want to waste that much time messing with that.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Nothing stopping those two big trees except a cautious dude behind the chainsaw. If they're not leaning the way I want them to go and they're over my comfort diameter, I just girdle them. I guess I could drag the come-a-long around but I don't want to waste that much time messing with that.

I like that note of caution. Better safe than sorry. No tree is worth risking serious injury.

 

[Mennoniteman]

F-12, I like that thinking out of the box. I have cut 1/2 way thru some trees(small numbers of eight to twenty inch poplars) and left them for the wind to knock down. However in the few instances that technique was used it was to knock down the tree within a week or so. So far they have fallen in the planned directions except if the hinge(the half of the tree left circumference uncut) breaks of course.

In contrast when girdling a tree we are talking from four to fifteen years for it to completely fall down (my best recollection from the earliest ones my Dad and I had done here way back when). Trees falling from girdling here have usually fallen a piece at a time over a period of years. And finally the last part to fall has usually been the bottom ten ft or so of the trunk which is often just mush at that point. So I don't think that a partial felling cut would help the cause in the case of girdling. Keep thinking of different ways to tackle each challenge though; it pays off more often than not.

Like Chainsaw said, girdling trees has one huge adverse downside, they come down one piece at a time over a period of four or five years which can be very messy when done along an open strip or access road, usually the place that I did it. For that reason I've mostly stopped doing it, rather drop the tree in the wrong direction if I have to and move it on the ground. Also it takes longer to properly girdle a tree than it does to cut it down.

 

[Weasel]

I hack and squirt large trees, which kills the tree. Then the tree gradually decomposes over time, and won't usually harm surrounding trees.

I have yet to try that technique Brush but it's been on my list of things to try. Thanks!