Greenbriar thoughts

[Prelude8626]

Im looking for some option to help thicken up some areas. What is everyones thoughts on green briar or should I go another route. I looking for mostly in low wetland areas. I am starting some ROD this year but looking for other options as I go.

 

[bearcat]

Have you consider some kind of plum for your thickets? I’ve been working on clearing greenbrier for a few weeks now. I’ll be planting some native plum for my place next fall.
I know greenbrier are very high in protein(40%). However, they get woody and the deer don’t utilize them much after that. They also take over the trees


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Prelude8626]

Have you consider some kind of plum for your thickets? I’ve been working on clearing greenbrier for a few weeks now. I’ll be planting some native plum for my place next fall.
I know greenbrier are very high in protein(40%). However, they get woody and the deer don’t utilize them much after that. They also take over the trees


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do the plums do on wet ground? I have looked into them a little.

 

[dogghr]

Try Silky Dogwood if they will grow that far north. These are 3yo I think and I’m standing in sod w 3-5 in water. Cage them as deer do like them as you can see. Dont use tubes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TreeDaddy]

The operative phrase......"Don't use tubes".....

bill

 

[RLW]

There are numerous species of greenbrier, but I think they mostly have a FAC rating and I don't normally see it in wetlands. If you have the sun hitting the area, you can't go wrong with shrubs for thickening it up. Silky dogwood, red osier dogwood, arrowwood, ninebark, and buttonbush (in the wettest areas). You can throw in willows as well. All of these species and easily be established with live stakes too.

 

[j-bird]

For dense cover....sunlight is your friend....and in my experience greenbriar is not. I have greenbriar and have no use for it. Like Bearcat mentioned it grows up and out of reach and it trees and can be damaging to them. The thorns suck (like little needles) and the vines become very woody. If you want them for cover and deer food you will have to specifically manage them to keep them at deer level. I like the idea of different native shrubs and small trees. Many shrubs can be grown from cuttings as well....but you will need to protect them and they will need that sunlight. If your working with a dense canopy....your options are grossly limited. As long as you have the sunlight I would consider planting thickets of a few different plants and caging them as a thicket. I would do this in a couple of places and once the plants are established then remove the protection and make some more. Use say 100' x 5' tall welded fence to make these "pods" and just plant them full of these new plants. Make it narrow so the deer are less likely to jump into it and hold in place with some T posts. Many sumac grow in a colony and elderberry also come to mind that I haven't seen listed. Just some options to think about. Look around at what other shrubs you may already have as well. You can also allow other trees and the like to grow and simply keep them at deer level as well as many trees will stump sprout as well (willows and soft maples come to mind). You can even plant some mast trees in these if you wish as they can later be protected on an individual basis if needed. Make a few of these in different spots and then they can provide the seed for the rest.

 

[Oakseeds]

Ring it up for Bearcat ..... another vote for plum ... they are very dense thicket-forming plants that deer love to browse. The attached photo is of a single plum planted about 6 yrs ago; it is now easily 9-10 feet wide, about 6-7 feet tall, and gets browsed regularly. Limbs touching the ground will establish root structures and you can transplant them to increase you cover. Plums are wonderful plants for cover with the added benefit of high-quality browse. As you can see, they have worked this one over pretty well. They remain dense structures in the winter after they have lost all their leaves.

 

[Prelude8626]

Ring it up for Bearcat ..... another vote for plum ... they are very dense thicket-forming plants that deer love to browse. The attached photo is of a single plum planted about 6 yrs ago; it is now easily 9-10 feet wide, about 6-7 feet tall, and gets browsed regularly. Limbs touching the ground will establish root structures and you can transplant them to increase you cover. Plums are wonderful plants for cover with the added benefit of high-quality browse. As you can see, they have worked this one over pretty well. They remain dense structures in the winter after they have lost all their leaves.View attachment 18709

Are these just "American Plum"?

 

[Oakseeds]

https://www.kansasforests.org/conservation_trees/products/shrubs/sandhillplum.html

American, Sand Hill and Chickasaw are all very similar in size, shape and growth rate. I'd plant American/Sand Hill; it probably has - I believe - the best fruit for both wildlife and human consumption (if you choose to eat them in some form).

Alternative Names
"American plum, American wild plum, sandhill plum, Osage plum, river plum, sand cherry, thorn plum, wild yellow plum, red plum, August plum, goose plum, hog plum, and sloe"

 

[jlane35]

For dense cover....sunlight is your friend....and in my experience greenbriar is not. I have greenbriar and have no use for it. Like Bearcat mentioned it grows up and out of reach and it trees and can be damaging to them. The thorns suck (like little needles) and the vines become very woody. If you want them for cover and deer food you will have to specifically manage them to keep them at deer level. I like the idea of different native shrubs and small trees. Many shrubs can be grown from cuttings as well....but you will need to protect them and they will need that sunlight. If your working with a dense canopy....your options are grossly limited. As long as you have the sunlight I would consider planting thickets of a few different plants and caging them as a thicket. I would do this in a couple of places and once the plants are established then remove the protection and make some more. Use say 100' x 5' tall welded fence to make these "pods" and just plant them full of these new plants. Make it narrow so the deer are less likely to jump into it and hold in place with some T posts. Many sumac grow in a colony and elderberry also come to mind that I haven't seen listed. Just some options to think about. Look around at what other shrubs you may already have as well. You can also allow other trees and the like to grow and simply keep them at deer level as well as many trees will stump sprout as well (willows and soft maples come to mind). You can even plant some mast trees in these if you wish as they can later be protected on an individual basis if needed. Make a few of these in different spots and then they can provide the seed for the rest.

Do you think shrubs that are caged individually would be able to form thickets? Or is a single cage the best way to go?

I just planted a bunch of shrubs but caged them individually at the recommended spacing. My goal is thickets.

 

[bearcat]

For dense cover....sunlight is your friend....and in my experience greenbriar is not. I have greenbriar and have no use for it. Like Bearcat mentioned it grows up and out of reach and it trees and can be damaging to them. The thorns suck (like little needles) and the vines become very woody. If you want them for cover and deer food you will have to specifically manage them to keep them at deer level. I like the idea of different native shrubs and small trees. Many shrubs can be grown from cuttings as well....but you will need to protect them and they will need that sunlight. If your working with a dense canopy....your options are grossly limited. As long as you have the sunlight I would consider planting thickets of a few different plants and caging them as a thicket. I would do this in a couple of places and once the plants are established then remove the protection and make some more. Use say 100' x 5' tall welded fence to make these "pods" and just plant them full of these new plants. Make it narrow so the deer are less likely to jump into it and hold in place with some T posts. Many sumac grow in a colony and elderberry also come to mind that I haven't seen listed. Just some options to think about. Look around at what other shrubs you may already have as well. You can also allow other trees and the like to grow and simply keep them at deer level as well as many trees will stump sprout as well (willows and soft maples come to mind). You can even plant some mast trees in these if you wish as they can later be protected on an individual basis if needed. Make a few of these in different spots and then they can provide the seed for the rest.

I like the thicket idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Oakseeds]

If your deer density is very high at all, you best cage them until they get established (3-4 years). After that, they'll probably grow faster than deer can browse them back. If you don't cage them to get them established - and deer find them - you probably won't ever see a plum tree/bush, let alone a thicket. I caged the plant featured above for 3 yrs. For example, if you plant 3 plum plants - with 9' between each of them - in 5-6 years, you'll have 18' of great cover. You can straight line them, make an L shape (12' between plants for great thicket), V shape or the shape of your choice. A dozen plums, planted wisely, can produce a very nice thicket. Over time, and depending on land space, you can transplant root suckers to make additional thickets. Good luck.

P.S. when folks talk about establishing a screen on the side of a food plot, plums in a straight line will do an excellent job, AND provide an additional food source.

 

[bearcat]

If your deer density is very high at all, you best cage them until they get established (3-4 years). After that, they'll probably grow faster than deer can browse them back. If you don't cage them to get them established - and deer find them - you probably won't ever see a plum tree/bush, let alone a thicket. I caged the plant featured above for 3 yrs. For example, if you plant 3 plum plants - with 9' between each of them - in 5-6 years, you'll have 18' of great cover. You can straight line them, make an L shape (12' between plants for great thicket), V shape or the shape of your choice. A dozen plums, planted wisely, can produce a very nice thicket. Over time, and depending on land space, you can transplant root suckers to make additional thickets. Good luck.

P.S. when folks talk about establishing a screen on the side of a food plot, plums in a straight line will do an excellent job, AND provide an additional food source.

That’s almost exactly what we did this weekend. Went with a lazy L shape to hide a new plot from one of our main roads in our place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[j-bird]

Do you think shrubs that are caged individually would be able to form thickets? Or is a single cage the best way to go?

I just planted a bunch of shrubs but caged them individually at the recommended spacing. My goal is thickets.

The cage will have little impact on it's ability to form a thicket in my opinion. The spacing and the type of shrub will have greater impact on that. Some will spread by roots, others by seed. A thicket is a stem dense area so your spacing I think will have a far greater impact. You can always go in and plant additional shrubs in between the current ones to help speed up the "thicket" forming process if needed. I also know some folks have created clusters with a larger cage with multiple shrubs inside it as well. You just have to have the cage small enough or shaped so the deer don't want to jump inside.