Geo in Co

[OkieKubota]

Some Native Americans have different ethics about hunting and fishing than others. Some subsistence hunt and fish when and where they want for whatever they want while others follow the rules of the state...My wife and I are native but follow the rules of the state but we have native neighbors who are very old school and believe the treaties gave them right to hunt and fish at will for anything with any means possible. Our previous tribal admin even encouraged this to some degree.

What I mainly see is the fact that they don't understand the resource and that it is not infinite. They will kill more deer than the area can support being taken and a lot of our communities that have high NA populations are deer deserts. My neighbors on one side are full blood and when cutting fire wood they cut the big white oaks to burn and leave the post oaks. They have been doing this all over their small property so eventually they will get them all...it's like they don't understand the relationship of these trees to the deer that they like to kill or something...we have definitely lost something between now and back in the old days when we had the knowledge to not wipe out a resource...

New thing for our tribe for 2016 was every registered tribal member 16 yrs of age and older was issued a state hunting and fishing license and were given 1 free buck (rifle season only) tag and 1 spring tom turkey tag at no cost. They come in the mail, lots of party hunting going on with this arrangement and is one of the reasons I think our area had so much pressure this year. When you have 5 or 6 in a house with rifle buck tags at no cost then they try to fill them all... They even sent me one and I already have a Lifetime AHunting and fishing license I purchased many years ago that includes most all tags and permits...

 

[dgallow]

The exact same thing down here....'tribal lands' are even worse!

 

[George]

Rather heartbreaking to see what you have accomplished crumble in the hands of thugs. It sounds to me as if you sold a bunch of private property stress....which in the long run is a good thing for your health! I am sure CO brings it's own unforeseen stresses, but at least you are free of the stresses of hunting land ownership. Enjoy life my friend!

Thank you for your understanding D. I thrived a long time under private property stress. I left Iowa smarter and healthier. I'm now finding my Colorado experiment to be quite acceptable and a nice change. You know when physical exercise and trying to re conceptualize your last learned Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu sequence are your 2 stressors in life, you are leading a relatively stress free existence.

G

 

[W33kender]

Come to OK....the same can be said of some Native Americans. More to do with an individual than a group, but some groups live by different law and ethic.

I have heard the aymish disregard fishing and hunting regs in several states. Sounds to me like a solid demographic with an entitlement mindset completely interwoven in the culture. And LEO's do very little about it.

I am painting with a broad brush. The shoe fits.

 

[George]

The red carpet was rolled out to all poachers in Iowa, no discrimination. Amish don't any where near make up the majority of poachers in Iowa, white people do.

"It sounds to me as if you sold a bunch of private property stress...."

The guy that bought the 174 north of me in Iowa from the poacher, took it hook line and sinker that there were 170s galore bedded down on the property. He bought another guy out of an existing purchase contract so lets just say that he started with more invested than the dream property is worth today. Shortly after the purchase the Misses announces that she is ready for a divorce. He buys a brand new 80 horse tractor and mangles the front end, it has been in repair for months. He buys a brand new utv and mangles it too. He rents a bulldozer and mangles his only not already mangled leg, 4 operations and a titanium rod. Now he commutes to hospital in Iowa City from Michigan and his property is being over run by 170s.

So my Friends lets count our blessings this Holiday Season.

And D, Okie, I think that you guys may have talked me out of buying that 120 acre mountain property that I was looking at in OK.

G

 

[Fish]

Boy, G, when i asked about hickory ridge i figured you would tell me how the new guy capitalized on your hard work. Bummer. HRidge and Valley of the Giants deserved better.
Good to see your stove warming the homestead. We have been burning pretty solid for a few weeks now. No better heat than wood heat.
Funny how the pets take to the hearth
Maybe if we burned a stove in the woods deer would come there to bed.

 

[OkieKubota]

The red carpet was rolled out to all poachers in Iowa, no discrimination. Amish don't any where near make up the majority of poachers in Iowa, white people do.

"It sounds to me as if you sold a bunch of private property stress...."

The guy that bought the 174 north of me in Iowa from the poacher, took it hook line and sinker that there were 170s galore bedded down on the property. He bought another guy out of an existing purchase contract so lets just say that he started with more invested than the dream property is worth today. Shortly after the purchase the Misses announces that she is ready for a divorce. He buys a brand new 80 horse tractor and mangles the front end, it has been in repair for months. He buys a brand new utv and mangles it too. He rents a bulldozer and mangles his only not already mangled leg, 4 operations and a titanium rod. Now he commutes to hospital in Iowa City from Michigan and his property is being over run by 170s.

So my Friends lets count our blessings this Holiday Season.

And D, Okie, I think that you guys may have talked me out of buying that 120 acre mountain property that I was looking at in OK.

G

Southeastern Oklahoma? If that is the area D could give you more guidance but up here in NE Oklahoma I would say go for it. I would have to say from talking to guys who hunt Iowa and reading other's blogs and such that a big deer in Iowa farm country or open country would be easier to kill than our Oklahoma Mountain deer therefore we have a bunch that make it through the season. I actually think our area is doing pretty good right now by trail cam survey with a great crop of good deer left over. The secret up here is Big Woods...keeps deer safe so they can grow old like my Laid Back 9 buck I took in October. If that Mountain Property is in a big woods area you will have an unlimited supply of replacements just waiting in line to take their turn on your place.

I do have fence sitters and guys around us can't seem to figure out that archery season is not rifle season but have absolutely no trespass issues...

 

[jteeen]

definitely lost something between now and back in the old days when we had the knowledge to not wipe out a resource...

New thing for our tribe for 2016 was every registered tribal member 16 yrs of age and older was issued a state hunting and fishing license and were given 1 free buck (rifle season only) tag and 1 spring tom turkey tag at no cost. They come in the mail, lots of party hunting going on with this arrangement and is one of the reasons I think our area had so much pressure this year. When you have 5 or 6 in a house with rifle buck tags at no cost then they try to fill them all... They even sent me one and I already have a Lifetime AHunting and fishing license I purchased many years ago that includes most all tags and permits...

While I agree to some extent, I don't think it will have that large of an impact. My entire family got these and none of them have any interest in hunting. They just got them because it was free. All of us that hunt have lifetime licenses. I think the people that are going to kill a buck would do it with or without a tag. Those are the types that are neighbors to our property. With Choctaw doing the same thing eventually half the state will have a free buck tag, but to hunt, you have to have property, and most don't.

 

[deer patch]

G...I think every area is going to have some kind of issue no matter where you are located. Even the ones that never complain still have issues. If you are longing to own land again I say find a piece that will make you happy and do some research on the neighbors. You already know what to look for anyway. Shoot anyone here would love to have you as a neighbor. Are you looking for just land or housing with land and how much acreage? I know where some land is for sale but need to know what your looking for. If you want land in Arkansas.

 

[OkieKubota]

While I agree to some extent, I don't think it will have that large of an impact. My entire family got these and none of them have any interest in hunting. They just got them because it was free. All of us that hunt have lifetime licenses. I think the people that are going to kill a buck would do it with or without a tag. Those are the types that are neighbors to our property. With Choctaw doing the same thing eventually half the state will have a free buck tag, but to hunt, you have to have property, and most don't.

My entire family got them as well and living here in the CN Capital I work with a lot of NA folks and I have already witnessed this. I personally know guys wives and daughters that have already gotten a buck with this deal that have never hunted... Only 1 or 2 in a family has to have any interest...will be interesting to see if the harvest in Cherokee County will go up this year with these new tags allotted or if folks will just do what they always have and shoot all the bucks they want and just drag them home foregoing the license/tag deal all together like they have in the past...

Did you ever figure out who killed the spike?

 

[dgallow]

And D, Okie, I think that you guys may have talked me out of buying that 120 acre mountain property that I was looking at in OK.

G

G....with your determination in time you will find the remote secure spots of the vast public land out west. Just like the Eastman family has done for 3 generations in pursuit of free-range trophies.

Always good to know who the current neighbors are and their habits, but there is an age transition going on right now (baby boomer conservatives to GenX and Millennial). Many properties in OK are changing hands to younger generations with little land improvement interest.....or new non-related individuals with new ideals are buying land. New neighbors may (likely will) bring new issues. One way to buffer your interests is to look at larger tracts of land and enhance the core habitat or hunt more remote areas away from issues. 120 ac might be good for a core but I would want to control 500+ ac around it anywhere in OK and probably 10x that in far west OK (due to larger core areas and travel distances) if larger than average deer is the goal. You don't have to own land to control it....long term lease (hunting and ag use rights) with pleasing improvements for the owner and great owner/tenant relations goes a long way to controlling land without capital investment. On the drive out west a couple weeks ago, I was surprised at the excellent condition of rangeland habitat between Tulsa and Stillwater and a paucity of livestock on the land. There is opportunity in gov't programs for those interested in wildlife and farming/ranching to enter that lifestyle with help on the knowledge and financial end of things.....ie "beginning farmers and ranchers". Anytime you have rangeland which has been rested a couple years after abusive continuous grazing practices or long term drought, good opportunities exist for new mangers with wise management planning.

 

[George]

Boy, G, when i asked about hickory ridge i figured you would tell me how the new guy capitalized on your hard work. Bummer. HRidge and Valley of the Giants deserved better.
Good to see your stove warming the homestead. We have been burning pretty solid for a few weeks now. No better heat than wood heat.
Funny how the pets take to the hearth
Maybe if we burned a stove in the woods deer would come there to bed.

Fish, that ground will be plugged back up by invasives no matter who bought it.

I have quickly become accustomed to warmth.

To much intrusion in to Sanctuary to tend the wood stove.

Southeastern Oklahoma? If that is the area D could give you more guidance but up here in NE Oklahoma I would say go for it. I would have to say from talking to guys who hunt Iowa and reading other's blogs and such that a big deer in Iowa farm country or open country would be easier to kill than our Oklahoma Mountain deer therefore we have a bunch that make it through the season. I actually think our area is doing pretty good right now by trail cam survey with a great crop of good deer left over. The secret up here is Big Woods...keeps deer safe so they can grow old like my Laid Back 9 buck I took in October. If that Mountain Property is in a big woods area you will have an unlimited supply of replacements just waiting in line to take their turn on your place.

I do have fence sitters and guys around us can't seem to figure out that archery season is not rifle season but have absolutely no trespass issues...

The 80 Acre Food Plot was located on a block of 3500 acres of rough.

G...I think every area is going to have some kind of issue no matter where you are located. Even the ones that never complain still have issues. If you are longing to own land again I say find a piece that will make you happy and do some research on the neighbors. You already know what to look for anyway. Shoot anyone here would love to have you as a neighbor. Are you looking for just land or housing with land and how much acreage? I know where some land is for sale but need to know what your looking for. If you want land in Arkansas.

deer patch, I did look at land in Arkansas but D called me out, right now I'm just pretending

G....with your determination in time you will find the remote secure spots of the vast public land out west. Just like the Eastman family has done for 3 generations in pursuit of free-range trophies.

Always good to know who the current neighbors are and their habits, but there is an age transition going on right now (baby boomer conservatives to GenX and Millennial). Many properties in OK are changing hands to younger generations with little land improvement interest.....or new non-related individuals with new ideals are buying land. New neighbors may (likely will) bring new issues. One way to buffer your interests is to look at larger tracts of land and enhance the core habitat or hunt more remote areas away from issues. 120 ac might be good for a core but I would want to control 500+ ac around it anywhere in OK and probably 10x that in far west OK (due to larger core areas and travel distances) if larger than average deer is the goal. You don't have to own land to control it....long term lease (hunting and ag use rights) with pleasing improvements for the owner and great owner/tenant relations goes a long way to controlling land without capital investment. On the drive out west a couple weeks ago, I was surprised at the excellent condition of rangeland habitat between Tulsa and Stillwater and a paucity of livestock on the land. There is opportunity in gov't programs for those interested in wildlife and farming/ranching to enter that lifestyle with help on the knowledge and financial end of things.....ie "beginning farmers and ranchers". Anytime you have rangeland which has been rested a couple years after abusive continuous grazing practices or long term drought, good opportunities exist for new mangers with wise management planning.

because I'm going hunting in the mountains.

Not so unforeseen Colorado stress, Hank is out of kibble.









I'm not going to fight it, it's a play in the snow day.

G

 

[OkieKubota]

I don't know G...I think you are doing an experiment right now and would be surprised if you don't end up with another patch of dirt to call your own in the next 2 years...

 

[George]

I don't know G...I think you are doing an experiment right now and would be surprised if you don't end up with another patch of dirt to call your own in the next 2 years...

A sturdy roof, warmth, absolutely Johnny, this could all be a false sense of contentment brought on by thinking clouded by a high altitude dopamine rush and discount Tuesdays at the flower shop.

G

 

[OkieKubota]

View attachment 5167

View attachment 5168




A sturdy roof, warmth, absolutely Johnny, this could all be a false sense of contentment brought on by thinking clouded by a high altitude dopamine rush and discount Tuesdays at the flower shop.

G

I personally would be miserable there...I hate snow and can't stomach seeing another house from my own home. Almost all of my travels have been to the mountains as that is where I chose to go and I have been all over Wyoming and Colorado for vacation and never once have I come back wishing I could live there. I would like to visit for about a week and perhaps hunt elk or perhaps fish but more than that would make me home sick for these whitetail deer woods...

I am very excited about this winters transformation to come for our property. Lots to do and I am itching to get at it. I like the molding process as much as I like the hunting...

Eli and I will be hunting on Home 10 tomorrow for a doe with rifles. #1 goal is for him to get a deer and if he gets one down then I am going to try for mine but his will have to come first. I ended up with 15 more acres there so now I have a total of 25 so I need to look at what I can do on the molding over on the additional ground there as well...saw 23 deer there a couple evenings ago when I pulled in to check on the old house.

 

[OkieKubota]

A sturdy roof, warmth, absolutely Johnny, this could all be a false sense of contentment brought on by thinking clouded by a high altitude dopamine rush and discount Tuesdays at the flower shop.

G

Flower shop deal went right over my head? I can speculate but would rather be told...

 

[lakngolf]

Flower shop deal went right over my head? I can speculate but would rather be told...

Well, they grow some lively "flowers" there in the Rockies!

 

[OkieKubota]

Well, they grow some lively "flowers" there in the Rockies!

That was my speculation but was just wanting to make sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions...

 

[deer patch]

Hank sure is intent on helping you watch the road.

Whatever you decide to do I hope it all works out for you for the best for you and Hank.

 

[George]

I personally would be miserable there...I hate snow and can't stomach seeing another house from my own home. Almost all of my travels have been to the mountains as that is where I chose to go and I have been all over Wyoming and Colorado for vacation and never once have I come back wishing I could live there. I would like to visit for about a week and perhaps hunt elk or perhaps fish but more than that would make me home sick for these whitetail deer woods...

I am very excited about this winters transformation to come for our property. Lots to do and I am itching to get at it. I like the molding process as much as I like the hunting...

Eli and I will be hunting on Home 10 tomorrow for a doe with rifles. #1 goal is for him to get a deer and if he gets one down then I am going to try for mine but his will have to come first. I ended up with 15 more acres there so now I have a total of 25 so I need to look at what I can do on the molding over on the additional ground there as well...saw 23 deer there a couple evenings ago when I pulled in to check on the old house.

You hate snow, 8,000' is definitely not for you.



As far as neighbors go, I have lived my whole life in isolation from neighbors so this is new to me. So far I have found my neighbors to be good, conservative, live and let live types. No criminal poachers, no dogs running all over me, no constant rifle shots during bow season. Heck, I haven't even had a single neighbor come over armed looking for a gun fight as I was welcomed in Iowa. I'm finding good neighbors to be acceptable. Besides, half of my neighbors live in Texas.

Flower shop deal went right over my head? I can speculate but would rather be told...

I wrote the flower comment to get a rise out of you. I'm not sure why it went over your head, you are the one that has been talking about Colorado flowers ever since I bought this place.

Hank sure is intent on helping you watch the road.

Whatever you decide to do I hope it all works out for you for the best for you and Hank.

Thanks DP, I bought a less expensive home in a desired hood of more expensive homes. I approached this from an investment stand point. Any money or effort to improve this house will be rewarded. Right now I have a five year plan for tax purposes. Values are up about 20% since I bought.

G