Garlon4/diesel cocktail vs maple tree

[NoviceTreeGuy]

I waited until march/April to girdle and spray 1/3 garlon4 & 2/3 diesel fuel mix on my maples.

Well the sap was running by then and I got very little success killing them.

Do I even need to girdle them and spray this mix or could I just spray the bottom 3 feet of the tree now (december) to get a kill?

This mix worked great for autumn olive, I was hoping it would take care of some maples.

 

[RGrizzzz]

How big are the maples?

 

[NoviceTreeGuy]

Good question. They range from 6" in diameter to 20-24" for the biggest ones.

I would guess most are 10-12".

 

[RGrizzzz]

Double check the label for the Garon4 , becauae some of those trees may be too big.

Edit: 6"

 

[George]

triclopyr doesn't kill big maples very well. A double girdle and no chemical kills big maples very well, it may not look like it, but they all fall over in 2-3 years.

Summer and fall is the best times to kill trees with chemical.

G

 

[yoderjac]

I'm always concerned about girdling or chemically killing large trees in an area I hunt or frequent. I don't like the idea of creating widow-makers. I realize it is not always possible, but I much prefer felling them completely.

 

[George]

I'm always concerned about girdling or chemically killing large trees in an area I hunt or frequent. I don't like the idea of creating widow-makers. I realize it is not always possible, but I much prefer felling them completely.

The tree that you are felling is the one that is most likely to kill you.

G

 

[yoderjac]

The tree that you are felling is the one that is most likely to kill you.

G

I don't know if I buy that argument. When I'm taking down a tree, I can plan things. When things don't go according to plan, I can always back out and end up with a widow-maker. I can remember when gypsy moths hit PA and entire hardwood ridges were killed. Pokeberries grew up like crazy with no canopy which was great for deer since they lost the acorns. However, a few years later, you did not want to be hunting in those woods. It was not entire trees coming down, but dead branches falling that you had to watch out for.

I'm not saying there is never a case for killing a standing mature tree rather than felling it. I'm just saying that, if possible, I much prefer felling a tree, even if one has to rent an excavator or something to ensure it falls according to plan. I've felled many with just ropes and winches and never felt unsafe or had a close call. On the other hand, I've been hunting on the ground and had large branches land within feet of me.

 

[RGrizzzz]

A dead ash hit my stand last year sometime in late winter or early spring. Fortunately it was built well and I only had to repair the sides and roof.

It's definitely safer to drop trees when possible, and with the proper experience/skills.

 

[yoderjac]

A dead ash hit my stand last year sometime in late winter or early spring. Fortunately it was built well and I only had to repair the sides and roof.

It's definitely safer to drop trees when possible, and with the proper experience/skills.

And that is a key point!

 

[buckdeer1]

I use remedy and diesel in the fall to basal spray

 

[George]

The woods are inherently dangerous and there are many an experienced and dead tree fellers that didn't mean to kill themselves. Maybe we are confusing taking a tree out and timber stand improvement?

G

 

[RGrizzzz]

The woods are inherently dangerous and there are many an experienced and dead tree fellers that didn't mean to kill themselves. Maybe we are confusing taking a tree out and timber stand improvement?

G

TSI with herbicide kills trees. Dead trees eventually fall. Leaving lots of trees that will eventually fall can be dangerous. Hence, some people don't like leaving trees standing to die

 

[George]

TSI with herbicide kills trees. Dead trees eventually fall. Leaving lots of trees that will eventually fall can be dangerous. Hence, some people don't like leaving trees standing to die

Or as I contend, much less dangerous than actually cutting them down.

G

 

[RGrizzzz]

Or as I contend, much less dangerous than actually cutting them down.

G

Sure, on day 1, but not forever. Is there a plan to cut them down eventually?

 

[BenAllgood]

I waited until march/April to girdle and spray 1/3 garlon4 & 2/3 diesel fuel mix on my maples.

Well the sap was running by then and I got very little success killing them.

Do I even need to girdle them and spray this mix or could I just spray the bottom 3 feet of the tree now (december) to get a kill?

This mix worked great for autumn olive, I was hoping it would take care of some maples.

The girdle/spray or hack/squirt when the sap is flowing up isn't a great time to use those techniques as you found out. But, basal spraying can be done any time as long as it's not snowing/raining to wash it off. I did a basal bark treatment last spring with triclopyr with success. For maples, the label recommends mixing with Tordon:

"Alligare Triclopyr 4
and Tordon* or Picloram K may be applied as a low volume basal bark treatment to improve
control of certain woody species such as ash, elm, maple, poplar, aspen, hackberry, oak,
oceanspray, birch, hickory, pine, tanoak, cherry, locust, sassafras, and multiflora rose. (See
product bulletin for mixing instructions.)"

If you're doing a TSI project, it's hard to do without chemicals. And, the trees break down over time and start falling off little by little until there's just a snag left. You're not going to have a forest of limbs raining down. That's a misconception.

 

[Mennoniteman]

For killing big trees drilling an angled 1" hole into the tree and and pouring a few ounces of 100% herbicide like glyphosate into the hole is more effective than basal bark spraying, and less work than a double girdle.
For small trees basal bark spraying with 1/3 triclopyr & 2/3 diesel fuel is very fast and effective, but only recommended for trees less than 4" diameter, a good rule of thumb is you can go a little bigger if it's a smooth bark tree, and even smaller if it's rough bark tree. On smaller invasive species I have good kill rates doing basal bark spraying in the winter when there's snow on the ground like this "Tree of H" pictured below. It's so much easier to move through the woods, and if you are using red diesel the snow (plus your footprints) clearly shows which trees you've already killed which is the big difficulty in the summer when you're sweating and the insects are putting almost as much of a hurting on you as you are to the trees

 

[George]

Sure, on day 1, but not forever. Is there a plan to cut them down eventually?

Well, if we take it out to forever the chemically treated tree will have crumbled harmlessly to the ground. Dead standing trees weigh far less than they did when alive and will do far less damage to the other trees that you are protecting, when they do eventually come down.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

The girdle/spray or hack/squirt when the sap is flowing up isn't a great time to use those techniques as you found out. But, basal spraying can be done any time as long as it's not snowing/raining to wash it off. I did a basal bark treatment last spring with triclopyr with success. For maples, the label recommends mixing with Tordon:

"Alligare Triclopyr 4
and Tordon* or Picloram K may be applied as a low volume basal bark treatment to improve
control of certain woody species such as ash, elm, maple, poplar, aspen, hackberry, oak,
oceanspray, birch, hickory, pine, tanoak, cherry, locust, sassafras, and multiflora rose. (See
product bulletin for mixing instructions.)"

If you're doing a TSI project, it's hard to do without chemicals. And, the trees break down over time and start falling off little by little until there's just a snag left. You're not going to have a forest of limbs raining down. That's a misconception.

I've done a good bit of girdling on bigger trees and the branches coming down can make a mess on our trails, but I've never seen any come down, they always seem to come down in heavy storms overnight. Usually they end up with a stub that stands and rots for years.

 

[George]

I have seen perfectly live trees dangerously fall to the ground. I have yet to witness a tree that I have killed fall to the ground. As Men Man mentioned, after the storm passes, I go up and clean up the trails.

G