Food Source vs Cover

[Matt Galati]

A little backround:

Property has virtually no agriculture in the area . My foodplots are it. Over the last four years I have watched my heard go from scrawny, needle horned bucks to thick bodied 100" 8 pointers. For my area that is a wonderful accomplishment. The only issue is that I just don't have enough acreage to hold the deer.

I know the miracle workers say they can hold a deer per acre with hinge cutting and what have you but bottom line is mature deer will not go into that plot during day light hours. Where do I see deer during day light hours, old pasture.

So now I am faced with a dilemma, do I continue to feed the heard and continue watching my neighbors harvest these bucks? Or do I perhaps convert my existing plot into an mix of switchgrass, bluestem etc with some light forages in it to promote more daylight activity?

 

[George]

To begin with, you are probably imagining things if you think that your food plots have had any effect on the health of the deer herd.

G

 

[JDunham]

How many acres are you talking about? Total acres you own plus the number of acres in plots.

 

[Matt Galati]

35 acres . Six acres of plots .

I know I'm not growing monster racks , but I've noticed a definite change in the body size of the deer since I started planting .

 

[OkieKubota]

What is your area? Need to update your profile to show general location...

 

[JDunham]

I believe you can have an impact on your herd with plots. We watched the weights of our deer go up with our food plot program. We recorded the weights of our deer for several years and the weights went up 10-15lbs on average. The antlers did not drastically change but we did see better first year racks. Less spikes and more 6 points and basket rack 8 points.

The question on plots vs cover is a tough one. Are any of your plots secluded and set up for low impact hunting? If you can hunt them without the deer on the property knowing you are there I would keep the plots. I have a 50 acre piece that has 6-8 acres of plots in the middle. We have a stand we can get in to and out of without the deer knowing. We have killed several good deer on those plots. Some feeding and some moving through due to pressure. None of those deer bed on us and we know it. The neighbors get some and we get a few. Just reality with that amount of acreage. How will you hunt it if you convert it to just cover? If you have a good plan that may be the way to go. I would be inclined to keep the food if it is something your neighbors don't have and focus on low impact hunting of your acres. Sounds like you pull deer from the surrounding area which has its advantages also, we focus on that with our property.

 

[j-bird]

As much as we focus on our own properties we need to remember our properties are not islands. The deer don't recognize property lines (sometimes neighbors don't either). The thing is the deer will bed where they feel safe and they will feed where they feel safe and most hunters try to hunt them somewhere in between. If those deer bed off of your property and they feed on your property then other hunters are going to have a chance at those deer. Even if you get those deer to bed on your property - those deer still wander - it's just natures way.

As for your mix of food to cover - 17% is a high percentage in my book - but that doesn't mean much. My situation is totally different from yours. I live in a very heavy ag area and as such I plot only 2% of my place, but I have 100 acres of corn and bean field (some may say those count as food plots - I don't) as well as 100's of acres more of the same around me. A smaller property like yours is going to have difficulty holding lots of deer and how the property is set up and hunted will have a big impact as well. The quality and layout of the rest of your habitat plays just as much a part if not more so than your plots as to how the deer use your place.

I would suggest a book by Jeff Sturgis called "whitetail success by design" - it talks about setting up properties in a way to make it more advantageous to hunters with hunting in mind and not the traditional - "I can put a plot here so I will" mentality that many of us use and then try to figure out how to hunt it.

There is no right or wrong answer - there is only what works for the individual. The combination of thick cover and food sources at the peak when your wanting to hunt is one that will never go out of style......you just need to figure out the balance of the two and how to arrange it to maximize it to your advantage.

Lots of experienced folks here to help - hope to see you stick around and share your experiences with us as well.

 

[George]

Sure my 7 acres of food plots on 80 kept the dominant bitch and her fawns fat and happy in the summer and I sure preferred to eat the bucks fattened up off my food plots and pear tree. Did I increase the average weight of the herd by any significant amount? No.

I probably had more effect by making the non food plot ground the best food and cover that it could be.

G

 

[Elkaddict]

I'd keep the plots and get your chainsaw fired up. A bunch of hinge cuts will make a difference. If for some reason you can't create the cover in your woods, I would do a mix of plots and switch grass. I think you'll still loose deer to the neighbors no matter what you do. By a signicant margin, we have the best food and cover around. Still, 1/3 of our shooters bed off the property.. The past several years, about the same percentage wonder off after feeding on us daily all summer not to be seen again. Some survive, some don't. For example, we haven't see our number 1 and number 3 buck since late September.

 

[Jason Broom]

Matt,

Food plots generally attract does and their family groups. Does and their family groups generally attract bucks. 35 acres will not "hold" any deer, unless it's an island that is a long ways from the nearest mainland. The key is to understand what you have, what is around you, what you can realistically offer, and then how you can hunt in a manner that engenders success.

The two main problems I run into when I'm helping folks set up their property are as follows:

1) Folks want to see truly large bucks and have less than 1/10th of the land needed to actually "hold" a buck until maturity.
2) Folks want quick, easy solutions to improve their habitat and fail to grasp the intrinsic value thereof...failure is inevitable.

You have not increased the nutritional plane significantly with the plots you have put in. At best, you may have helped a few more deer get through winter in decent shape, thereby possibly increasing their harvest weights the following fall. More likely, you have pulled in mature deer that already existed in your area, and began selectively harvesting for older age class animals. We were seeing older, larger bucks on our property the 2nd year we planted food plots; they didn't grow fatter on our plots, they just followed the ladies into our neighborhood a little more often.

The answer to your question can't be answered without knowing the nature of the habitat surrounding you, as well as an honest assessment of your goals. The fact that you mention 100 inch bucks, but give no weights of deer from before or after your plots went in, indicates to me that you are hoping to see and kill large-antlered bucks. Suffice to say, if you do that on 35 acres, it's as much luck and cooperation from surrounding landowners as it is anything you've done on your land. You've got to keep your expectations realistic.

That's why the only smart thing to do...is whatever's right for the land. By making the health of the land first and foremost in your goals, success becomes easier to achieve and all wildlife benefit from your efforts...not just buck deer of a certain antler size. Elkaddict's advice to fire up your chainsaw is likely the very best option, if your land is primarily full-canopy forest.

Anyone who tells you they are holding 1 deer per acre is either lying or running a high-fence deer ranching operation...and an unhealthy one, at that!

:twocents:

 

[Buckly]

If you fire up the chainsaw and make 6 acres of hinge cuts instead of plots, you will create cover AND food.

 

[dogghr]

A little backround:

Property has virtually no agriculture in the area . My foodplots are it. Over the last four years I have watched my heard go from scrawny, needle horned bucks to thick bodied 100" 8 pointers. For my area that is a wonderful accomplishment. The only issue is that I just don't have enough acreage to hold the deer.

I know the miracle workers say they can hold a deer per acre with hinge cutting and what have you but bottom line is mature deer will not go into that plot during day light hours. Where do I see deer during day light hours, old pasture.

So now I am faced with a dilemma, do I continue to feed the heard and continue watching my neighbors harvest these bucks? Or do I perhaps convert my existing plot into an mix of switchgrass, bluestem etc with some light forages in it to promote more daylight activity?

I think you have been observing correctly. You have seen that cover and natural food is as , or more, important than a planted plot. I think the last 2 sentences gets you on the right tract. Provide more natural bedding, fawning, and browsing habitat, and your hope of a mature buck using your acreage increases. If you can get neighbors on same tract of passing young buck ( even if it meant to a 3 yo ) then yours and their land will be more productive in improving quality of deer and their habitat. Good luck.

 

[Brokenbear]

Where are you located? ...is water everywhere or could creating a wildlife pond near bedding and food sources possible
kill every piece of fescue (except erosion control areas) on your place ...plant blue stem,switch grass and forbes everywhere you can ...ring your plots with it at least 24' assuming you have small plots scattered ...if you have one large or a couple large plots then strip it in blue/switch.forbes with this mix surrounding the fields and then food,grass,food,grass to fill out the field ....make the food strips the width of your drill for easy planting like 3 passes of a 12' drill then 2 drill passes of grass for example

Then plan how you will hunt the plots ...from where you will hunt the plots (if you are actually hunting the plots) for your two most dominate wind directions ...make sure your plan includes you non invasive entry into your hunt positions dependent upon wind direction

Once you have this figured out then lay out your rows of grass and food to the best advantage of you chosen hunting positions

Next to last ...hinge cut (2AC) the small stuff woods if available up to the edge of the plot

last ...add water if not immediately available in the form of a wildlife pond

This is a 4 year process or was for us ...we are now in our 6th year ...we have 240AC with 20AC creek bottoms ...the rest hardwoods ...all of out plots are now finally set up as described above ...we have 2 bottoms plots of 6 & 7 AC respectivly ...with small year round watered creek along them

we have a 3 AC old ridge top log landing converted to plot and a 2AC ridge top sawmill converted to plot and a 3 AC side of ridge plot ...the 3 "upper" plots have all had wildlife pond dug with in 100 yards of each plot ...this year as example ...so dry we held deer like crazy

All are in above described stripping with traditional row crops in bottoms and silage type beans later salted (near frost time) with cereal rye,brassicas etc

I can absolutely any and every time go to any of the plots and find deer ...except when the acorns are on of course ...and even then there is almost always a dumb one around

and we don't roam all over everywhere ...consequently when pressure from the surrounding area gets intense we gain deer ...often big deer

Merry Christmas
Bear

 

[Matt Galati]

I am in Catskills mountains NY- Thank you all for the lengthy responses , a few more thoughts :

I am fully aware that I will never hold deer on my 35 acres alone . Over the last four years of improving habitat we have removed many white pine and mature hemlock to improve the under story . We clear cut a two acre stand as well . I have been working to hinge cut the property lines , as well as work on edge feathering the main plot , create travel cooridors etc.

The main issue at hand that I wanted to discuss in this thread was increasing daytime usage of my plot . Last year we did not hunt the food plot at all . I ran an experiment to see if I kept the pressure that I could control to an absolute minimum if daylight usage would increase . It did not , but my observations did show that deer in the local areas have absolutely no problem feeding in old pasture in broad daylight .

I know that in my region I will never sit over my plot in a redneck blind and wait
For an old bruiser to come out of crp field at 10 am . But I do know that both myself and my neighbors have seen a great improvement in the body weight of the local heard since I started planting . This past year many of my neighbors harvest the deer that were on there way to my plots .

So I had a few ideas , do I try a mix like Ed Spinozollas cover and Forbes mix ? Do I try planting switch grass or screens to break up the plot . I'm having a hard time balancing hunt ability / cover & tonnage .

 

[Matt Galati]

Where are you located? ...is water everywhere or could creating a wildlife pond near bedding and food sources possible
kill every piece of fescue (except erosion control areas) on your place ...plant blue stem,switch grass and forbes everywhere you can ...ring your plots with it at least 24' assuming you have small plots scattered ...if you have one large or a couple large plots then strip it in blue/switch.forbes with this mix surrounding the fields and then food,grass,food,grass to fill out the field ....make the food strips the width of your drill for easy planting like 3 passes of a 12' drill then 2 drill passes of grass for example

Then plan how you will hunt the plots ...from where you will hunt the plots (if you are actually hunting the plots) for your two most dominate wind directions ...make sure your plan includes you non invasive entry into your hunt positions dependent upon wind direction

Once you have this figured out then lay out your rows of grass and food to the best advantage of you chosen hunting positions

Next to last ...hinge cut (2AC) the small stuff woods if available up to the edge of the plot

last ...add water if not immediately available in the form of a wildlife pond

This is a 4 year process or was for us ...we are now in our 6th year ...we have 240AC with 20AC creek bottoms ...the rest hardwoods ...all of out plots are now finally set up as described above ...we have 2 bottoms plots of 6 & 7 AC respectivly ...with small year round watered creek along them

we have a 3 AC old ridge top log landing converted to plot and a 2AC ridge top sawmill converted to plot and a 3 AC side of ridge plot ...the 3 "upper" plots have all had wildlife pond dug with in 100 yards of each plot ...this year as example ...so dry we held deer like crazy

All are in above described stripping with traditional row crops in bottoms and silage type beans later salted (near frost time) with cereal rye,brassicas etc

I can absolutely any and every time go to any of the plots and find deer ...except when the acorns are on of course ...and even then there is almost always a dumb one around

and we don't roam all over everywhere ...consequently when pressure from the surrounding area gets intense we gain deer ...often big deer

Merry Christmas
Bear

Great info thanks bear

 

[Matt Galati]

I think you have been observing correctly. You have seen that cover and natural food is as , or more, important than a planted plot. I think the last 2 sentences gets you on the right tract. Provide more natural bedding, fawning, and browsing habitat, and your hope of a mature buck using your acreage increases. If you can get neighbors on same tract of passing young buck ( even if it meant to a 3 yo ) then yours and their land will be more productive in improving quality of deer and their habitat. Good luck.

P

 

[Matt Galati]

I've considered corn and beans mix as well because of there ability to provide food and cover . But something about old pasture as dog mentioned ...

 

[CAS_HNTR]

One thing to remember......cover is also food. Deer don't rely on food plots or ag field for 100% of their diet.....the eat a TON of woody browse native vegetation. If you have a lot of new growth through hinging, clear cuts, or just letting field grow fallow (maybe mow every 5 years to keep in check).....you will hold dear year round.

 

[j-bird]

I think you sort of answered your own question. Neighbors are shooting the Bucks you want as the deer come to your plots. This means those deer are bedding further away for whatever reason. This leads me to think that the amount of security cover you have isn't enough. Depending on how things are laid out you may even be struggling at holding doe family groups because of the lack of the depth of cover available as well. If you look at your property and look at your plots and access trails and activity centers and mark off approx 100 yards into your cover from those edges - how much area do you have then? Those areas remaining are where you have the potential to hold deer. Mature deer want distance away from even doe traffic and it sounds like for them to get that they are beyond your property. Sanctuary areas 100 yards beyond areas of human disturbance and of sufficient size will help. Deer won't use your plots in the day light if they have a long way to travel thru areas they don't feel safe. I can't speak to what you see in pastures but I would assume it is also related to a sense of security.

 

[Buckmagnet]

You've already been given excellent advice. Given the info. about your farm Id say cut the number of acres of your plots in half and make more cover in your plots to help give deer a feeling of security. This cover could be strips of corn, natural regeneration, or native grasses. If using corn I wouldn't expect much as far as grain going into late season. Also do everything possible to thicken up your cover... I think j-bird hit the nail on the head when he said the deer aren't feeling safe enough on your land. So your cover either isn't thick and isolated enough or your pressuring the herd too much. Possibly both of these are true...
This is a subject I think about a lot on my own property and having 120 ac surrounded by ag land cover is at a real premium, but so is late season food. I'm still working on the balancing act and layout of my place after 15 years of hunting and managing it.