Egyptian wheat....mowing.....planned grazing
- Thread starter dgallow
- Start date
Dealing with the spring glut.....revisiting competition, corroboration, and cohabitation.
Simply put a 'spring glut' occurs when any reasonable attempt at proper animal stocking rate (wild and/or domestic) is overwhelmed by forage growth rate when 'virtual green house growing conditions' occur. 'Spring virtual green house growing conditions' happen when ambient temperatures begin routinely hovering just below the critical high of 85 F, soil moisture is optimum, low light/night wind speeds (calm best) and a dense forage canopy over thatch all combine to make a 'green house effect'. From a scientific point of view, humidity and warmth speed decay of soil surface thatch which enriches the still low light/night air with carbon dioxide (CO2) in and around the warm forage canopy....stomata (pores) on the underside of leaves only need to remain open a short time to rid themselves of excess water (contributes to canopy humidity/daytime cooling and soil drying) and restock the photosynthetic pantry with a fresh charge of CO2. Thus, energetics of stomata are very efficient under green house conditions, plant stress is low and growth rapid. Just prior to the stomata dance in late evening, plant roots have exuded 'leftover' soluble carbohydrates into the soil surrounding their roots to 'make available the nutrients' (either through direct action or stimulation of soil microbes) the plant needs for the next day(s) of growth....while the green plant tissues metabolize the bulk of those sugars to grow new plant material that night. IT is a 'normal healthy thing' for plants in spring to outgrow the animal demand and to try and totally reverse such normalcy brings about as many unintended consequences for the landscape as not keeping plant growth in check at all! If plants are not allowed this rapid spring growth, then soil quality will suffer....which is the main unintended consequence of either excess herbivory or lack of herbivory altogether.
If this new growth is left to grow without regenerative herbivory, the new growth will soon 'harden off' and the landscape goes into a 'growth slump' meaning less high quality forage available for high animal performance over time. However, if most every plant is bitten, then spring plant growth is slowed as the plants must use energy reserves to recover and regrow from that injury which lengthens the amount of high quality forage available over time. 'Virtual green house conditions' are not limited to spring and actually occur many times during the growing season when aforementioned conditions occur simultaneously....with some leeway in the critical daily high temperature as dictated by the plants present at the time (warm vs cool season plants). So, if your landscape and animals, experience 'gluts' followed by 'slumps', then optimum herbivory is not occurring enmasse on your landscape....or the landscape lacks species diversity/complexity. A change in management thinking and planning is needed to maintain conditions for a 'virtual greenhouse' to be maintained over the whole growing season and then sufficient herbivory to regenerate plant growth over a longer period of the growing season.
Competition is defined as 'the activity of competing'. For example, green brier grows excessively fast in spring and there is competition by cattle and deer for the same plant at the same time only on the 5-7 ac open land which cattle occupy each 3-4 days. Important that you read that statement literally as a paddock may have 2-20 ac of forested land in addition to the ~6 ac open and there is a plethora of biting insects which deter cattle use of plants in timber but not of deer which are better adapted to those parasites...plus green brier growth is slowed under forest canopy...many factors to consider when debating 'competition' for plant resources between herbivores.
Corroboration is defined as 'evidence which supports an observation, theory or finding'. For example, not all of the new green brier growth is eaten by the cow as new shoots are visible on many plants when cattle leave and there are many more leaves on the plant after cattle leave than where there before green brier broke dormancy in early spring. Thus, although there is competition between two herbivors for the same plant in certain areas at the same time, observation of that plant corroborates that sufficient high quality plant forage is still available and the plant will be given time to recover for future animal use under planned grazing management. Most of the slump in green brier growth for deer in summer has been avoided by cattle using that plant during the spring glut.
Cohabitation is defined as 'the state or fact of living or existing at the same time or in the same place'....I will add....in a beneficial manner for both animals (wild and domestic), persistence of the plant, and quality of life for the landscape manager. For example, a suitable deer density is insufficient to properly utilize the spring glut of green brier and avoid a slump in plant and animal growth later in the growing season. Thus, activity of a second herbivore (cow herd) better utilizes the spring glut of brier growth which deer face and extends the amount, time and availability of high forage quality for both animal species over the whole growing season. Plant persistence has not been compromised by dual herbivore use. Quality of life for the land manager has improved since there is less frequent need to mow or spray green brier which also favors farm economics and addresses environmental issues associated with herbicide use.
Danny Little of Redneck blinds came down this last weekend for a property tour and to see the cow herd. He has employed grass-fed cattle and finishing under intensive grazing on his wildlife/crop farm for just over a year now....and enjoys the quality of life which cattle have brought to him and his family. HE helped me tie up a few loose ends on e-fence and helped move the herd across the ranch and through the corral/loadout chute for training. Then we sat in the heated truck and toured the rest of the ranch before heading to a nice Italian supper that eve with some of my kids to end a very cool April day. As we drove out that evening, the entire cattle herd was quietly lined up eating green brier like they would eat supplement from a feed bunk. Danny and I met on a deer habitat forum and at wildlife field days many years ago and that kindled into a great friendship. I've gained some really good friends and sincere cohorts on these forums over time....I hope each of you have been as equally blessed!
Just graze,
Doug
+
Simply put a 'spring glut' occurs when any reasonable attempt at proper animal stocking rate (wild and/or domestic) is overwhelmed by forage growth rate when 'virtual green house growing conditions' occur. 'Spring virtual green house growing conditions' happen when ambient temperatures begin routinely hovering just below the critical high of 85 F, soil moisture is optimum, low light/night wind speeds (calm best) and a dense forage canopy over thatch all combine to make a 'green house effect'. From a scientific point of view, humidity and warmth speed decay of soil surface thatch which enriches the still low light/night air with carbon dioxide (CO2) in and around the warm forage canopy....stomata (pores) on the underside of leaves only need to remain open a short time to rid themselves of excess water (contributes to canopy humidity/daytime cooling and soil drying) and restock the photosynthetic pantry with a fresh charge of CO2. Thus, energetics of stomata are very efficient under green house conditions, plant stress is low and growth rapid. Just prior to the stomata dance in late evening, plant roots have exuded 'leftover' soluble carbohydrates into the soil surrounding their roots to 'make available the nutrients' (either through direct action or stimulation of soil microbes) the plant needs for the next day(s) of growth....while the green plant tissues metabolize the bulk of those sugars to grow new plant material that night. IT is a 'normal healthy thing' for plants in spring to outgrow the animal demand and to try and totally reverse such normalcy brings about as many unintended consequences for the landscape as not keeping plant growth in check at all! If plants are not allowed this rapid spring growth, then soil quality will suffer....which is the main unintended consequence of either excess herbivory or lack of herbivory altogether.
If this new growth is left to grow without regenerative herbivory, the new growth will soon 'harden off' and the landscape goes into a 'growth slump' meaning less high quality forage available for high animal performance over time. However, if most every plant is bitten, then spring plant growth is slowed as the plants must use energy reserves to recover and regrow from that injury which lengthens the amount of high quality forage available over time. 'Virtual green house conditions' are not limited to spring and actually occur many times during the growing season when aforementioned conditions occur simultaneously....with some leeway in the critical daily high temperature as dictated by the plants present at the time (warm vs cool season plants). So, if your landscape and animals, experience 'gluts' followed by 'slumps', then optimum herbivory is not occurring enmasse on your landscape....or the landscape lacks species diversity/complexity. A change in management thinking and planning is needed to maintain conditions for a 'virtual greenhouse' to be maintained over the whole growing season and then sufficient herbivory to regenerate plant growth over a longer period of the growing season.
Competition is defined as 'the activity of competing'. For example, green brier grows excessively fast in spring and there is competition by cattle and deer for the same plant at the same time only on the 5-7 ac open land which cattle occupy each 3-4 days. Important that you read that statement literally as a paddock may have 2-20 ac of forested land in addition to the ~6 ac open and there is a plethora of biting insects which deter cattle use of plants in timber but not of deer which are better adapted to those parasites...plus green brier growth is slowed under forest canopy...many factors to consider when debating 'competition' for plant resources between herbivores.
Corroboration is defined as 'evidence which supports an observation, theory or finding'. For example, not all of the new green brier growth is eaten by the cow as new shoots are visible on many plants when cattle leave and there are many more leaves on the plant after cattle leave than where there before green brier broke dormancy in early spring. Thus, although there is competition between two herbivors for the same plant in certain areas at the same time, observation of that plant corroborates that sufficient high quality plant forage is still available and the plant will be given time to recover for future animal use under planned grazing management. Most of the slump in green brier growth for deer in summer has been avoided by cattle using that plant during the spring glut.
Cohabitation is defined as 'the state or fact of living or existing at the same time or in the same place'....I will add....in a beneficial manner for both animals (wild and domestic), persistence of the plant, and quality of life for the landscape manager. For example, a suitable deer density is insufficient to properly utilize the spring glut of green brier and avoid a slump in plant and animal growth later in the growing season. Thus, activity of a second herbivore (cow herd) better utilizes the spring glut of brier growth which deer face and extends the amount, time and availability of high forage quality for both animal species over the whole growing season. Plant persistence has not been compromised by dual herbivore use. Quality of life for the land manager has improved since there is less frequent need to mow or spray green brier which also favors farm economics and addresses environmental issues associated with herbicide use.
Danny Little of Redneck blinds came down this last weekend for a property tour and to see the cow herd. He has employed grass-fed cattle and finishing under intensive grazing on his wildlife/crop farm for just over a year now....and enjoys the quality of life which cattle have brought to him and his family. HE helped me tie up a few loose ends on e-fence and helped move the herd across the ranch and through the corral/loadout chute for training. Then we sat in the heated truck and toured the rest of the ranch before heading to a nice Italian supper that eve with some of my kids to end a very cool April day. As we drove out that evening, the entire cattle herd was quietly lined up eating green brier like they would eat supplement from a feed bunk. Danny and I met on a deer habitat forum and at wildlife field days many years ago and that kindled into a great friendship. I've gained some really good friends and sincere cohorts on these forums over time....I hope each of you have been as equally blessed!
Just graze,
Doug
+
Cow with blue ear tag eating green brier just after adjusting a fence yesterday to give better access to briers and a scantly used open area. Refractometer gave a Brix reading of 7.5 for tender green brier shoots.
Danny wanted me to use and test his new Brix meter and wheat grass juicer. The juicer mounts on ATV and squeezes out plant sap onto the prism of refractometer to measure Brix. Refractometer is in a hard blue case. Pic is me sampling regrowth area of field.....ungrazed rye/trit/vetch is 3-5' tall.
Text to an expert in forage Brix/soil health:
"The loafing area was soil sampled 2 yr ago.....5.5 SOM, 225 lb P, 1000 lb K. Sampled a handful of cereal rye at each spot where bio soil cores were taken.....stage ranged from early heading/pollinating to late veg/boot 25d regrowth. Only took two vetch samples as I drove each field half. Here are Brix readings.....I have no clue how this rates for my area."
Green brier....7.5
Cereal Rye/triticale ....7.7-9.5
Hairy Vetch....7.7 and 9
Ryegrass/annual brome grass loafing area..9.7
Text from expert:
"Doug. These are not bad for your area. Better than average. When you start getting Brix in the 12% and up range then you are really starting to hum. "
Lower Brix readings are from the 25 d regrowth....as you would expect.
Took time to turkey hunt.....wet cold north gusty wind and overcast. Went to an out of the way spot we haven't hunted in a couple years during the early breaking of night into day. A bird gobbled north of me on the limb and hit the ground about 6:30 AM....called a few times without much response. Bout 7:15 he gobbled close left and another gobbled front right.....cut them off with cuts/yelps and the front bird came in with ghost white waddles....the 'he' one the left materialized into a pair....the first of which ran out and dealt with Mr White Waddles while the latter strutted decoy. Decoy was on a rise and he stayed in the dip strutting behind the elm bushes most of the time. When he strutted behind vetch covered elm bush on right, I stood, crept to a tree in front and braced the Browning on the trunk. He strutted back left to the opening....eyeing the weird shaped tree trunk while extending his periscoping neck above his fluffed body. Sear broke.....wind muffled the thunder of the fire stick and he became table fare. 3-4 yo....23 lb, 9.5" beard, 1-1/8" rock worn Spurs. Clock showed 7:27 AM..giving plenty time to clean bird and do other chores before guest arrival.
My son hunted an old time good spot right after he got off work at 6 PM. While we were eating supper he sent a text: 25 lb, 10.5" beard, 7/8" Spurs. He redeemed himself at that spot from several years ago when he totally missed a close bird which lead to a string of misses over several years!
So what are the deer doing? Loafing most of daylight....feeding late eve through night and some early AM. Son and I hunted in rain from a Redneck blind Friday PM.....he can't sit on the ground for very long due to his knee injury and I'd rather not get wet in my old age. Birds despite being within 100 yards wouldn't work to call....1 (ONE) hen will do that....so we watched most go to roost and formulated his plan for the next eve...I would leave this area for the boys and hunt elsewhere! Watched a bachelor group of 8 bucks ( a few with nice base mass and overall beam growth already) ease out of burn unit and feed a little bit in a chin tall rye/trit/vetch/clover pasture plot (like what most deer plots look like right now)....on their way to destination.....which was?.....get this!...are you ready?...the 28 d paddock where I received and hot wire broke this new herd!...see....the forbs, grass and clover there is real tender regrowth....the kind of stuff deer prefer....the type of thing they adapt to when you start rotational planned grazing!
Just graze and be very observant,
Doug
+
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Danny wanted me to use and test his new Brix meter and wheat grass juicer. The juicer mounts on ATV and squeezes out plant sap onto the prism of refractometer to measure Brix. Refractometer is in a hard blue case. Pic is me sampling regrowth area of field.....ungrazed rye/trit/vetch is 3-5' tall.
Text to an expert in forage Brix/soil health:
"The loafing area was soil sampled 2 yr ago.....5.5 SOM, 225 lb P, 1000 lb K. Sampled a handful of cereal rye at each spot where bio soil cores were taken.....stage ranged from early heading/pollinating to late veg/boot 25d regrowth. Only took two vetch samples as I drove each field half. Here are Brix readings.....I have no clue how this rates for my area."
Green brier....7.5
Cereal Rye/triticale ....7.7-9.5
Hairy Vetch....7.7 and 9
Ryegrass/annual brome grass loafing area..9.7
Text from expert:
"Doug. These are not bad for your area. Better than average. When you start getting Brix in the 12% and up range then you are really starting to hum. "
Lower Brix readings are from the 25 d regrowth....as you would expect.
Took time to turkey hunt.....wet cold north gusty wind and overcast. Went to an out of the way spot we haven't hunted in a couple years during the early breaking of night into day. A bird gobbled north of me on the limb and hit the ground about 6:30 AM....called a few times without much response. Bout 7:15 he gobbled close left and another gobbled front right.....cut them off with cuts/yelps and the front bird came in with ghost white waddles....the 'he' one the left materialized into a pair....the first of which ran out and dealt with Mr White Waddles while the latter strutted decoy. Decoy was on a rise and he stayed in the dip strutting behind the elm bushes most of the time. When he strutted behind vetch covered elm bush on right, I stood, crept to a tree in front and braced the Browning on the trunk. He strutted back left to the opening....eyeing the weird shaped tree trunk while extending his periscoping neck above his fluffed body. Sear broke.....wind muffled the thunder of the fire stick and he became table fare. 3-4 yo....23 lb, 9.5" beard, 1-1/8" rock worn Spurs. Clock showed 7:27 AM..giving plenty time to clean bird and do other chores before guest arrival.
My son hunted an old time good spot right after he got off work at 6 PM. While we were eating supper he sent a text: 25 lb, 10.5" beard, 7/8" Spurs. He redeemed himself at that spot from several years ago when he totally missed a close bird which lead to a string of misses over several years!
So what are the deer doing? Loafing most of daylight....feeding late eve through night and some early AM. Son and I hunted in rain from a Redneck blind Friday PM.....he can't sit on the ground for very long due to his knee injury and I'd rather not get wet in my old age. Birds despite being within 100 yards wouldn't work to call....1 (ONE) hen will do that....so we watched most go to roost and formulated his plan for the next eve...I would leave this area for the boys and hunt elsewhere! Watched a bachelor group of 8 bucks ( a few with nice base mass and overall beam growth already) ease out of burn unit and feed a little bit in a chin tall rye/trit/vetch/clover pasture plot (like what most deer plots look like right now)....on their way to destination.....which was?.....get this!...are you ready?...the 28 d paddock where I received and hot wire broke this new herd!...see....the forbs, grass and clover there is real tender regrowth....the kind of stuff deer prefer....the type of thing they adapt to when you start rotational planned grazing!
Just graze and be very observant,
Doug
+
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
lakngolf
Well-Known Member
That was a good ride with lots of attractions. Probably an E ticket from 1970s disney world. Enjoyed the greenhouse growth conditions bit. I love it when tomatoes and squash hit that stage. It is like they store up growth energy like a twisted rubber band and then "let go"
Congrats on the birds. Ol' man knows wildlife almost as well as he knows plants!!
Congrats on the birds. Ol' man knows wildlife almost as well as he knows plants!!
Thanks lakngulf! With the cow herd enjoying their job of brush suppression, we were able to enjoy time chasing a few wildlife resources. Really pleased in the direction this new venture is taking!
On the bio-char thread I posted a recent video from Allen Williams.
Cattle, Cover Crops, Hope – a Pasture Project and Practical Farmers of Iowa Webinar
He mentions time and time again in his talks about how 'cascading and cumulative effects of management' influence the status of soil health and ecosystem function. And he emphasizes increasing both soil microbial biomass and soil microbial diversity/balance for healthy plants and healthy animals. It takes some time before one can begin to think though that whole process....because we rely mainly on faith for those things which we cannot easily see daily!
There are no 'good or bad' weeds....there are only plants occupying a niche which favors their cohabitation in soil.....when the soil character changes a different plant cohabitation often occurs.....seldom do we know why that occurs! In the same frame of thought, there are no 'good and bad' landscape management tasks, there are simply 'cascading and cumulative effects' after a management task is implemented which occur in the ecosystem. These 'effects' manifest as either intended consequences (ie we met a desired plan goal) or as unintended consequences (ie something unforeseen in planning occurred in the landscape we manage). Management tasks which directly impact soil or the plant community produce effects on the 'invisible soil microbial community'....so it is not until the change in activity of the 'invisible soil community' manifests into a change in other members of the landscape (plant, insect and animal) can the merit of our management task be monitored.
Fortunately, the USDA has begun to help us better understand this 'invisible soil microbial community' and some of these 'cumulative and cascading effects' of management tasks. Enjoy the video....it should help your mind begin to think through the whole process of energy transfer into soil health and wealth.
[Webinar] Getting to Know the Trillions of Friends Underfoot: Focus on Soil Life - See more at: https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/artic...rfoot-focus-on-soil-life#sthash.VvK5O79F.dpuf
https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/artic...riends-underfoot-focus-on-soil-life?v=preview
PS....You will need to log-in to watch the presentation.
Just graze and observe,
Doug
+
On the bio-char thread I posted a recent video from Allen Williams.
Cattle, Cover Crops, Hope – a Pasture Project and Practical Farmers of Iowa Webinar
He mentions time and time again in his talks about how 'cascading and cumulative effects of management' influence the status of soil health and ecosystem function. And he emphasizes increasing both soil microbial biomass and soil microbial diversity/balance for healthy plants and healthy animals. It takes some time before one can begin to think though that whole process....because we rely mainly on faith for those things which we cannot easily see daily!
There are no 'good or bad' weeds....there are only plants occupying a niche which favors their cohabitation in soil.....when the soil character changes a different plant cohabitation often occurs.....seldom do we know why that occurs! In the same frame of thought, there are no 'good and bad' landscape management tasks, there are simply 'cascading and cumulative effects' after a management task is implemented which occur in the ecosystem. These 'effects' manifest as either intended consequences (ie we met a desired plan goal) or as unintended consequences (ie something unforeseen in planning occurred in the landscape we manage). Management tasks which directly impact soil or the plant community produce effects on the 'invisible soil microbial community'....so it is not until the change in activity of the 'invisible soil community' manifests into a change in other members of the landscape (plant, insect and animal) can the merit of our management task be monitored.
Fortunately, the USDA has begun to help us better understand this 'invisible soil microbial community' and some of these 'cumulative and cascading effects' of management tasks. Enjoy the video....it should help your mind begin to think through the whole process of energy transfer into soil health and wealth.
[Webinar] Getting to Know the Trillions of Friends Underfoot: Focus on Soil Life - See more at: https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/artic...rfoot-focus-on-soil-life#sthash.VvK5O79F.dpuf
https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/artic...riends-underfoot-focus-on-soil-life?v=preview
PS....You will need to log-in to watch the presentation.
Just graze and observe,
Doug
+
Doug,
I remember a while back, in one of your pictures, there was an area really trampled down by your cattle showing their path around the area. In their main travel areas do you see better growth from your preferred plants, do these areas have a harder time because of compaction, or does it make no difference at all? Thanks.
I remember a while back, in one of your pictures, there was an area really trampled down by your cattle showing their path around the area. In their main travel areas do you see better growth from your preferred plants, do these areas have a harder time because of compaction, or does it make no difference at all? Thanks.
It's really hard to say without seeing the exact picture, but I will give a few generalities with examples:
The longer cattle stay in one area the greater the compaction risk.
- Compaction not an issue where cattle spend <20% of the year. Most of our paddocks suffer no compaction issues.
- Compaction is evident where cattle spend > 20% of year. Long time loafing areas, sacrifice paddocks, weaning pens, and feed lots all show variable degrees of compaction.
- Any compacted area can be healed with plant roots if given enough recovery days and grazed again when compaction risk is nil and plants have fully recovered. The necessary plants for healing may come naturally or may need to be planted as cover crops. Time required for alleviation varies tremendously.
-Compaction in pasture is created more from our desire for convenience of management than of natural animal behavior under intense rotation.
-Compaction isn't a problem when there is organic matter to trample into the soil.
-Compaction is a problem when there isn't any organic matter to trample.
-You can feel compacted soil if walking on it with thin soled boots (plain jane muck boots are the best)....its either like walking on a mattress or on concrete!
The absolute best side by side example I have is the corral....it has 2 holding pens.......one north and one south....the south one is closest to road and gates thus the most convenient to keep a sick animal, feed the herd for working or keeping a water trough to be filled....I have trampled both sides to the point where they were a well mixed slurry of mud, manure, urine, animal parts, thatch and green forage annually over the years. When we excavated soil to pour the chute pad, the differences between each half was night and day....the north half had a very tilthly silt loam topsoil extending over a foot deep and earthworms numerous...it dug easily with FEL......the south half had very platy compacted soil structure starting 4" deep and extending over 12" thick without earthworms....harder to dig and mostly came out as a 'slab' with the FEL.
It is for that reason I absolutely abhor 'sacrifice areas' and 'weaning pens'!
When a continuously grazed pasture is split up into 20+paddocks the historic nutrification and compaction issue of loafing areas is nullified. The herd can no longer repeatedly go to a handful of loafing areas....instead they will spend less time on 20-40 new loafing areas.....nutrification becomes more even over space to increase soil fertility and minimize time spent in one spot + opportunity for long recovery nullifies detrimental compaction. I like to see a herd just keep on moving....adjusting paddock size with temp fence as conditions warrant.
There is no harm in 'making mud' with a cow herd. Sometimes that is a must to get native seeds/rhyzomes to germinate from deep in the soil seed bank....provided you have long enough recovery period to allow the new plants to re-establish themselves. Think about that....30 years in tame pasture under a reasonable degree of grazing management builds new topsoil....native seeds which were once at the surface when the land was first broke may now be 2-6" deep....so the 'degree of hoof massage' needed to stimulate desirable plants is not set in stone....stock density must the varied and sufficient time given to monitor succession. When Allen Williams does high stock density grazing in his flex system, recovery period starts at 90 days.
I also take advantage of letting the cattle make some mud as a seeding opportunity.....normally by placing the mineral feeder in vegetation I'd like to see disappear or become thin....then seed anything from clover mixes, switch, johnsongrass, lespedeza, jap millet, etc by hand in that area to increase plant diversity and ecosystem complexity. Deep rooted plants like switch and JG also go a long way to bust up deep compaction moreso than most tame pasture forages. Bermuda and fescue usually come back easily with 80+ day recoveries....but it will take a few committed years to get rid of weeds like buttercup, smooth doc, and hedge mustard which opportunistically colonize the same compacted, bare and/or poorly drained areas....none of those forbs are preferred forages (cattle or deer...sheep yes).
Baker and I had a nice conversation this eve about general things.....so here are a few links which pertain to that discussion, Baker.
RTP Outdoors makes a cover crop roller/crimper....Terry Hamby posted a video of his 15' model from what I understand.
https://www.facebook.com/RTPOutdoors1/
Getting away from herbicides and GMO crops is something I have chosen to pursue due to potential shifts in soil microbial community and as a personal safety measure due to shifting winds and overspray (just never felt real comfortable with that). There is still a need IMOI for 'suppression' of one cover crop when trying to establish another. A mix of apple cider vinergar, redmund salt, AMS and surfactant may be a viable alternative behind the roller. There is much hype about vinegar as a 'cure all' so buyer beware. I cannot substantiate such claims but will get my toes wet in the process. As I mentioned on the phone.....acetic acid is a common component of rumen fluid...so every time a cow or deer takes and bite of forage the soil/plant ecosystem is fed a low rate of acetic acid...among other acids. There is another 'organic' based burn down herbicide based on capric and capryllic acids....I can tell you from lab experience both of those are very pungent and not major components of rumen fermentation. Anyway, economics favor making a 20% vinegar herbicide based on 60% acetic acid equivalent apple cider vinegar mixed with water. Finding 60 vinegar is not going to be easy!
Vinegar Weed Control Herbicide
20% Acetic Acid (Vinagreen)
http://www.vinegarguys.com/vinagreen-weed-control
How to get accurate Brix Measurement
http://magissues.farmprogress.com/mif/MF06Jun14/mif052.pdf
Played a bit more with the Brix meter this evening although conditions were not ideal for measuring the highest Brix potential due to late clouds and a front to move through within 24 hrs. Again, the wheatgrass juicer is very easy to extract plant sap....the only plant I had problems with was golden rod which may work if more mature.
Here are today's results:
From the 6% SOM high fertility no-till garden:
Cereal rye/triticale boot stage......9.7% Brix
Hairy vetch late vegetative......7.4
I think the stars are going to have to align correctly to get Brix above 10 on those two cover crops in this area.
Various native plants on unamended soil around the back yard which deer folks may have interest:
Green ash shoots.....17.5% Brix
Virginia wild rye boot stage.....11.5
Japanese honeysuckle blooming.....11.5
Pokeweed early veg.....6.0
Smooth doc flowering....4.0 (probably why few critters use smooth doc....curly doc is highly preferred at flowering)
Some of these forages are hitting that 12% Brix benchmark which Allen Williams refers to as 'humming'. At 12+ Brix, you will get feedlot level cattle gains and see high antler development potential.
The green ash reading is no fluke as I read a second batch about an hour later at15.5. This explains why I've seen both cattle and deer hammer ash shoots during spring. The good thing about that is after cattle get done with ash shoots there is another major flush of ash shoots 30-60 d later which quadruples available deer quality forage.
The wild rye observation fits nicely with' Doug Petersons observation of high cattle preference for wildrye. We'd probably be better off spring grazing areas of rangeland with wildrye in April rather than torching it with prescribed fire in March. When a preferred forage is in abundance in an area, you will get sufficient animal impact to regenerate rangeland without needing to light a match.
At 11.5 Brix you can see why deer on Native Hunter's place won't leave that plant alone! Probably why we don't have much of it one the ranch but where it grows use is heavy.
I'd bet good money pokeweed has it's best Brix values closer to flowering....that is when we see the most deer use here!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
RTP Outdoors makes a cover crop roller/crimper....Terry Hamby posted a video of his 15' model from what I understand.
https://www.facebook.com/RTPOutdoors1/
Getting away from herbicides and GMO crops is something I have chosen to pursue due to potential shifts in soil microbial community and as a personal safety measure due to shifting winds and overspray (just never felt real comfortable with that). There is still a need IMOI for 'suppression' of one cover crop when trying to establish another. A mix of apple cider vinergar, redmund salt, AMS and surfactant may be a viable alternative behind the roller. There is much hype about vinegar as a 'cure all' so buyer beware. I cannot substantiate such claims but will get my toes wet in the process. As I mentioned on the phone.....acetic acid is a common component of rumen fluid...so every time a cow or deer takes and bite of forage the soil/plant ecosystem is fed a low rate of acetic acid...among other acids. There is another 'organic' based burn down herbicide based on capric and capryllic acids....I can tell you from lab experience both of those are very pungent and not major components of rumen fermentation. Anyway, economics favor making a 20% vinegar herbicide based on 60% acetic acid equivalent apple cider vinegar mixed with water. Finding 60 vinegar is not going to be easy!
Vinegar Weed Control Herbicide
20% Acetic Acid (Vinagreen)
http://www.vinegarguys.com/vinagreen-weed-control
How to get accurate Brix Measurement
http://magissues.farmprogress.com/mif/MF06Jun14/mif052.pdf
Played a bit more with the Brix meter this evening although conditions were not ideal for measuring the highest Brix potential due to late clouds and a front to move through within 24 hrs. Again, the wheatgrass juicer is very easy to extract plant sap....the only plant I had problems with was golden rod which may work if more mature.
Here are today's results:
From the 6% SOM high fertility no-till garden:
Cereal rye/triticale boot stage......9.7% Brix
Hairy vetch late vegetative......7.4
I think the stars are going to have to align correctly to get Brix above 10 on those two cover crops in this area.
Various native plants on unamended soil around the back yard which deer folks may have interest:
Green ash shoots.....17.5% Brix
Virginia wild rye boot stage.....11.5
Japanese honeysuckle blooming.....11.5
Pokeweed early veg.....6.0
Smooth doc flowering....4.0 (probably why few critters use smooth doc....curly doc is highly preferred at flowering)
Some of these forages are hitting that 12% Brix benchmark which Allen Williams refers to as 'humming'. At 12+ Brix, you will get feedlot level cattle gains and see high antler development potential.
The green ash reading is no fluke as I read a second batch about an hour later at15.5. This explains why I've seen both cattle and deer hammer ash shoots during spring. The good thing about that is after cattle get done with ash shoots there is another major flush of ash shoots 30-60 d later which quadruples available deer quality forage.
The wild rye observation fits nicely with' Doug Petersons observation of high cattle preference for wildrye. We'd probably be better off spring grazing areas of rangeland with wildrye in April rather than torching it with prescribed fire in March. When a preferred forage is in abundance in an area, you will get sufficient animal impact to regenerate rangeland without needing to light a match.
At 11.5 Brix you can see why deer on Native Hunter's place won't leave that plant alone! Probably why we don't have much of it one the ranch but where it grows use is heavy.
I'd bet good money pokeweed has it's best Brix values closer to flowering....that is when we see the most deer use here!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
Doug, I spent most of the night researching vinegar as a herbicide. Very interesting. I'll be calling " the Vinegar Guys ' next week.From what I read it will work in my application I'm just concerned about the cost. I also need to understand a bit more on application. I'm also curios about applying over clover as I have 25-30 acres of clover fields. Mowing helps with broad leafs but I occasionally use cleth to knock grass back.
I'll als0 call RTP Outdoors next week. As I told you I will have a roller crimper before fall rotation. I want one that will attach to my front end loader so I can crimp while drilling as in photo. I noticed the video was drilling to a green crop. Generally when I'm drilling especially my spring crops the rye/wheat is usually seeded and dead. The crimson and brassicas may still have a little life. I'll want to research that a bit more too. Most of the summer crops will still be growing when I drill fall cultivars except the soybeans.
Gonna be running around the farm with my brix refractometer next week. I'll report readings. I didn't know climatic conditions and timing effected readings. Learn something from you every time.
I'll als0 call RTP Outdoors next week. As I told you I will have a roller crimper before fall rotation. I want one that will attach to my front end loader so I can crimp while drilling as in photo. I noticed the video was drilling to a green crop. Generally when I'm drilling especially my spring crops the rye/wheat is usually seeded and dead. The crimson and brassicas may still have a little life. I'll want to research that a bit more too. Most of the summer crops will still be growing when I drill fall cultivars except the soybeans.
Gonna be running around the farm with my brix refractometer next week. I'll report readings. I didn't know climatic conditions and timing effected readings. Learn something from you every time.
Glad I could help Baker.....maybe someday I'll get a roller crimper or borrow one....for right now it ain't in the budget. Newport usually does his homework before writing....a good resource and a nice guy to talk with! I don't have the time now to search for Brix content of common deer forages but the information should be out there in people search....and one can always follow the animal and read what they select for to get a good idea.
Hopefully most of you will watch the two video posted and then start thinking about energy flow and ponder some of the Brix readings (which will differ on your place)....when you get the concept you will have an epiphany moment and start thinking how to tweak your landscape management!
A few hints:
Liquid carbon in the form of sugars flowing through the systems increased microbial biomass.
Microbial biomass (the bacterial fraction) contains about 50% crude protein (ie 8% nitrogen).
How do you better feed the soil and the rumen?....both have similar micro organisms and organism functions!
Think energy flow!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
Hopefully most of you will watch the two video posted and then start thinking about energy flow and ponder some of the Brix readings (which will differ on your place)....when you get the concept you will have an epiphany moment and start thinking how to tweak your landscape management!
A few hints:
Liquid carbon in the form of sugars flowing through the systems increased microbial biomass.
Microbial biomass (the bacterial fraction) contains about 50% crude protein (ie 8% nitrogen).
How do you better feed the soil and the rumen?....both have similar micro organisms and organism functions!
Think energy flow!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
Poured 2"from gauge yesterday.....a short deluge provided me a birthday bath and chased us out of hinge cuts on the high mesa....poured all afternoon and should add another 3" to gauge by tomorrow.....I was just starting to enjoy being a tad dry....typical April...'mud city'!
Here is another video which will help you better understand Brix, SOM and soil microbial activity...totally opposite of the way most wildlife habitat is being currently managed by 'many experts'!
2016 Grass-Fed Beef Summit with Dr. Allen Williams - Pt 10
Just graze and observe,
Doug
Here is another video which will help you better understand Brix, SOM and soil microbial activity...totally opposite of the way most wildlife habitat is being currently managed by 'many experts'!
2016 Grass-Fed Beef Summit with Dr. Allen Williams - Pt 10
Just graze and observe,
Doug
The added 3" brought pond levels to near full pool.....requiring some string adjustment.....and a few surprises. This pond has good aquatic vegetation so water clears quickly.
Handsaw hinged a few green ash for the girls....they started eating....high Brix remember!Bring it down.....let the herd prune and regen for other critters.
Which half is food plot? Which half in cover crops drilled into warm season pasture? Honestly, it all looks the same these days and no herbicide or tillage is needed! Herds goal the next 2 weeks it to eat all they want then trample the majority.....rough life....both plots proper and pasture!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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Handsaw hinged a few green ash for the girls....they started eating....high Brix remember!Bring it down.....let the herd prune and regen for other critters.
Which half is food plot? Which half in cover crops drilled into warm season pasture? Honestly, it all looks the same these days and no herbicide or tillage is needed! Herds goal the next 2 weeks it to eat all they want then trample the majority.....rough life....both plots proper and pasture!
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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catscratch
Well-Known Member
Lookin good!
Do you have any brix measurements for Osage Orange leafs?
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Do you have any brix measurements for Osage Orange leafs?
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You should get a brix meter and have the kids monitor plant Brix as a project....novel information!
No...haven't measured Brix on OO...it is a C3 plant member of mulberry family. Ours are pollinating now and the sugars will be concentrated in the reproductive structures.....a clue to that is high pollinator attraction (nectar). Suspect the highest leaf reading will come after pollination. Soil health and soil microbial activity around the tree will also affect Brix....those used as summer cattle loafing areas should contain very high quality due to manure loading, high SOM and associated biology. OO is also known to be a very mineral dense plant....that will affect animal preference as well as Brix. Cattle will be around a long time used OO next week...so I will know more then....expect me to do some 'training' then with a set of loppers!
Osage Orange: Identification and Management
https://www.noble.org/globalassets/docs/ag/pubs/soils/nf-so-11-08.pdf
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Are you using a regular refractometer, or do you have a digital brix meter?
I'm seeing heavy use of OO from deer right now. It's the only thing I'm seeing them reach up for, otherwise their heads are down. Deer are spending equal time in this winter's burn, food plots, and edge (browsing OO). Getting lots of visitors at the mineral site too...
I'm seeing heavy use of OO from deer right now. It's the only thing I'm seeing them reach up for, otherwise their heads are down. Deer are spending equal time in this winter's burn, food plots, and edge (browsing OO). Getting lots of visitors at the mineral site too...
I ordered a digital....the Milwakee 871 from eBay and a cast juicer. Digital compensates for temp etc. Didn't get to take any readings this weekend....spent mornings in timber and afternoons putting in new efence infrastructure. But I can tell by looking at the cows there is a tremendous flow of energy through plants right now....yes mineral intake is up due to forage water content and potassium levels. More on that later in thread.
Old field graze/burn/cut over project is coming along nicely. This area will get a full 270d recovery period before cattle use in winter.
If you make it a habit of looking afar at a landscape, then you will fail to notice at your feet the forbs deer are using.
A new forb also showing deer use.
A new C3 grass specie for this site showing its heads.
On the 014 reclaim ground, switchgrass, aC4 grass, in its post fire flush! It is becoming a workhorse on that rough ground and cattle love it! In 3 weeks cattle should be here....trampling C3 biomass and enjoying some C4 morsels. The inside edge as been hinge cut for screen and diversity and limbs/sprouts on outside edge trimmed so efence can be run separating the two units.
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Old field graze/burn/cut over project is coming along nicely. This area will get a full 270d recovery period before cattle use in winter.
If you make it a habit of looking afar at a landscape, then you will fail to notice at your feet the forbs deer are using.
A new forb also showing deer use.
A new C3 grass specie for this site showing its heads.
On the 014 reclaim ground, switchgrass, aC4 grass, in its post fire flush! It is becoming a workhorse on that rough ground and cattle love it! In 3 weeks cattle should be here....trampling C3 biomass and enjoying some C4 morsels. The inside edge as been hinge cut for screen and diversity and limbs/sprouts on outside edge trimmed so efence can be run separating the two units.
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When we first hinge cut this unit in 2010, goals were bedding cover, trail blocking, corridors and increased browse....stuff people write magazine articles about. We should have hinged more trees than we did back then.....very apparent when one looks at either new succession or black earth post fire.
Goals and reading material now are a bit different....goals such as increasing energy flow through increased diversity for max sunlight capture....increased soil water storage from fibrous rooted C4 native grasses and soil thatch cover.....faster soil nutrient turnover from shift from woody to herbaceous plants.....thermal effect from remaining trees decreasing ground level winter wind shear yet open and shady enough for cool summer effect .....and the opportunity for planned grazing livestock to improve soil microbial biomass and activity. A mind will only change is allowed to be inquisitive and creative!
Most hinging in 2010 was below 3' on stump. Most hinging now is at 4-6' on stump. Seems to be better air flow through a hinge cut at taller height.....a thermal benefit in summer.....and perhaps better successional effect.
Two prescribed fires have since ran through those first hinges. Still ample vertical cover if you consider also the contribution NWSG will provide.....and the flush of successional blackberry from bird drippings in the hinged tops which past authors ignored the invasiveness thereof!
I like this look much better than a wall of hinged mess. Nice opening central to the unit.....plethora of forbs and legumes....and the ever present woody sprouts close to the ground (did I mention 10 fold increase in blackberry?....consider that a not so good cascading effect of hinging in rangeland!). So we still have browse (new post fire hickory shoots murdered recent...wanna bet high Brix?)....still have cover....and a hell of a lot more deer and cattle food from native plants (forbs legumes grasses) providing critical ecosystem services!
One of the original 2010 hinge cuts. More productive in my opinion.
The adjacent dark hinge cut area from that morning. So yeah I still hinge.....quick cheap and easy if you have sharp saw chain.....and yep It will burn again in a few years!
This used to be a sanctuary food plot and in the background the opportunity to make a pretty north slope Savannah if I elect to cutover/treat stumps vs hinge and break the rule of 'hinge cut unit only'. Can you see a strong fall south wind blowing seed from big bluestem in foreground to seed the whole slope under some massive healthy post oak?
Want to know an easy way to heat stress? Take a saw into burned timber in May and June....work in low succession areas like full canopy timber and old hinge cuts.....as you drop trees more light comes in to that bare soil and you will see just how hot that black earth gets, and how much radiant heat you feel. Then go work an area with good herbaceous successional soil cover....feels much better!
Anyway, when done cutting...caps are taken off tanks to cool saw.....water guzzled....then a cool down spreading a lil switchgrass/lespedeza mix on bare earth of current and prior hinge. What's it gonna hurt? When hinges are long gone maybe switch becomes the wall?
Then it happened while sowing seed.....totally out of left field....a square flash of rust gray and white sailed in front of us......we jumped.....we were startled.....we were awestruck.....they were two in kind....we were two in kind (dog and I)....man vs wild....what were they?
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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Goals and reading material now are a bit different....goals such as increasing energy flow through increased diversity for max sunlight capture....increased soil water storage from fibrous rooted C4 native grasses and soil thatch cover.....faster soil nutrient turnover from shift from woody to herbaceous plants.....thermal effect from remaining trees decreasing ground level winter wind shear yet open and shady enough for cool summer effect .....and the opportunity for planned grazing livestock to improve soil microbial biomass and activity. A mind will only change is allowed to be inquisitive and creative!
Most hinging in 2010 was below 3' on stump. Most hinging now is at 4-6' on stump. Seems to be better air flow through a hinge cut at taller height.....a thermal benefit in summer.....and perhaps better successional effect.
Two prescribed fires have since ran through those first hinges. Still ample vertical cover if you consider also the contribution NWSG will provide.....and the flush of successional blackberry from bird drippings in the hinged tops which past authors ignored the invasiveness thereof!
I like this look much better than a wall of hinged mess. Nice opening central to the unit.....plethora of forbs and legumes....and the ever present woody sprouts close to the ground (did I mention 10 fold increase in blackberry?....consider that a not so good cascading effect of hinging in rangeland!). So we still have browse (new post fire hickory shoots murdered recent...wanna bet high Brix?)....still have cover....and a hell of a lot more deer and cattle food from native plants (forbs legumes grasses) providing critical ecosystem services!
One of the original 2010 hinge cuts. More productive in my opinion.
The adjacent dark hinge cut area from that morning. So yeah I still hinge.....quick cheap and easy if you have sharp saw chain.....and yep It will burn again in a few years!
This used to be a sanctuary food plot and in the background the opportunity to make a pretty north slope Savannah if I elect to cutover/treat stumps vs hinge and break the rule of 'hinge cut unit only'. Can you see a strong fall south wind blowing seed from big bluestem in foreground to seed the whole slope under some massive healthy post oak?
Want to know an easy way to heat stress? Take a saw into burned timber in May and June....work in low succession areas like full canopy timber and old hinge cuts.....as you drop trees more light comes in to that bare soil and you will see just how hot that black earth gets, and how much radiant heat you feel. Then go work an area with good herbaceous successional soil cover....feels much better!
Anyway, when done cutting...caps are taken off tanks to cool saw.....water guzzled....then a cool down spreading a lil switchgrass/lespedeza mix on bare earth of current and prior hinge. What's it gonna hurt? When hinges are long gone maybe switch becomes the wall?
Then it happened while sowing seed.....totally out of left field....a square flash of rust gray and white sailed in front of us......we jumped.....we were startled.....we were awestruck.....they were two in kind....we were two in kind (dog and I)....man vs wild....what were they?
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
Pond area looking great, D. I remember it and the hinge cut/burn areas well. I agree that hinge cut philosophy has changed some in the last few years. I also tend to hinge much higher at head level and much more aggressive in trees cut. I also am more protective on the dry south shale areas as they struggle for any ground growth especially the last few dry years so I tend to hinge areas with good moisture available, i.e. , north or weather protected areas. I'm pretty sure I saw a few hundred chiggers in those pics, guess I left some behind. Stay cool.
Thanks dogghr!
Ticks have slowed down....not many chiggers yet. Honey bee are busy with persimmon blooms. Horn fly and mosquito numbers are low. A large group of purple martins has been working the second Mesa. They pay me no attention as they glide just above the forage canopy on their way to the ponds for late evening bug hatches. I have built no houses for them yet they seem to make a living there somehow.
Here are the creatures which swarmed us the other day in burn unit. First ones I've ever seen in the wild. Anyone venture to guess what they are?
What you can't see them? Here is a closer view! Any guesses?
Moved the herd to new paddock yesterday after funeral and found a nice area of OG.
Some of you may battle thistle in food plots. This is what the herd did to thistle in destination plot. This herd has not been trained to eat thistle and it could be deer browse as well (deer do eat some spiny forbs).
My point is that when plant diversity and complexity dominate your landscape a cascading effect is new homes and habitat for new diverse wildlife....some of those you may have never seen or dreamed of seeing on your place.
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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Ticks have slowed down....not many chiggers yet. Honey bee are busy with persimmon blooms. Horn fly and mosquito numbers are low. A large group of purple martins has been working the second Mesa. They pay me no attention as they glide just above the forage canopy on their way to the ponds for late evening bug hatches. I have built no houses for them yet they seem to make a living there somehow.
Here are the creatures which swarmed us the other day in burn unit. First ones I've ever seen in the wild. Anyone venture to guess what they are?
What you can't see them? Here is a closer view! Any guesses?
Moved the herd to new paddock yesterday after funeral and found a nice area of OG.
Some of you may battle thistle in food plots. This is what the herd did to thistle in destination plot. This herd has not been trained to eat thistle and it could be deer browse as well (deer do eat some spiny forbs).
My point is that when plant diversity and complexity dominate your landscape a cascading effect is new homes and habitat for new diverse wildlife....some of those you may have never seen or dreamed of seeing on your place.
Just graze and observe,
Doug
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catscratch
Well-Known Member
I can't tell from your pics but are your critters flying squirrels? We see 5hem sometimes at my buddies place by Grand, but it's always at night.
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