Deer corn

[Deer Stuffer]

What are your thoughts about putting out deer corn and also hunting over deer corn?
Also what kind of effect does it have on deer to have a steady diet of corn for three months then when done hunting December/January the corn instantly stops?
Let me say up front that yes I hunt over a corn pile. It is legal in Oklahoma. I do not own my own land to hunt on. I hunt three different properties of private land. I only have bow hunting permission. Cows are on two of the larger properties.
A 290 acre property (rural with cows)
A 190 acre property (city limits with cows)
A 39 acre property (city limits, no cows)
Since I don't own it I can't do land improvents, create bedding, hinge cutting, food plots, etc. I'm not making excuses for hunting over corn, I just like have deer close and want to give myself every legal advantage. I WANT TO KILL DEER! Sorry for text yelling. I only target mature bucks. I don't kill a buck every year. Some properties I only get one chance the entire season. Some properties season goes by with zero shots. One property I've never killed a doe on the other two very few does shot and none in 3 or 4 years because I really don't think there are very many. I actually believe there are more bucks than does on these properties judging by camera inventory. This post isn't meant to bash corn hunters as I am one. Just want to hear different thoughts and I honestly want to know pros and cons about corn.

 

[SwampCat]

I would worry about deer adjusting to corn and then having to go back to native food. They wont depend on corn for all their food. In fact, you may find they dont eat it much at all if it is a good acorn year.

 

[Drycreek]

No bashing here either, it’s been an accepted practice in this state forever. I hunt over feeders a lot, but also over just food plots and also where there is neither. Deer are where you find them, and mature bucks avoid feeders a lot, not always, but a lot.

As for the corn stopping abruptly, I feed corn from a spin cast feeder from September until March most years. They won’t ever get enough at one time to hurt them, that’s just the nature of spin cast feeders. I usually feed 8 seconds at 8:00 am, (7:00 am after the time change), and 6 seconds at 5:00 pm, (4:00 pm after time change). I did kill a nice buck in my feeder pen this year, but usually that’s not the case. Usually I get one downwind of the feeder or on the plot, and they’re generally not interested too much in food, but the does that are feeding.

I pen my feeders to keep the hogs from hanging around. Deer don’t like other strange deer very much, and they won’t tolerate hogs, they just leave when the hogs show up. After season closes, I usually cut the pm feeding off, and just feed in the morning, that further reduces use by hogs because there’s generally no corn left after the deer come. We pour corn on the ground to kill hogs over.

My properties are somewhat like yours. We kill no does on my 80 acres at home, very few on our 350 acre lease, and a few on the 2,500 acre lease that I hunt by invitation. The only one of these places that I can fully control is my home place. The others are not mine, therefore I’m limited in what I can do, as you are.

Some folks don’t approve, but I see zero wrong with anything that helps me take a deer with a legal method.

 

[SwampCat]

View attachment 17821 No bashing here either, it’s been an accepted practice in this state forever. I hunt over feeders a lot, but also over just food plots and also where there is neither. Deer are where you find them, and mature bucks avoid feeders a lot, not always, but a lot.

As for the corn stopping abruptly, I feed corn from a spin cast feeder from September until March most years. They won’t ever get enough at one time to hurt them, that’s just the nature of spin cast feeders. I usually feed 8 seconds at 8:00 am, (7:00 am after the time change), and 6 seconds at 5:00 pm, (4:00 pm after time change). I did kill a nice buck in my feeder pen this year, but usually that’s not the case. Usually I get one downwind of the feeder or on the plot, and they’re generally not interested too much in food, but the does that are feeding.

I pen my feeders to keep the hogs from hanging around. Deer don’t like other strange deer very much, and they won’t tolerate hogs, they just leave when the hogs show up. After season closes, I usually cut the pm feeding off, and just feed in the morning, that further reduces use by hogs because there’s generally no corn left after the deer come. We pour corn on the ground to kill hogs over.

My properties are somewhat like yours. We kill no does on my 80 acres at home, very few on our 350 acre lease, and a few on the 2,500 acre lease that I hunt by invitation. The only one of these places that I can fully control is my home place. The others are not mine, therefore I’m limited in what I can do, as you are.

Some folks don’t approve, but I see zero wrong with anything that helps me take a deer with a legal method.

how high does the fence have to be to keep the hogs out?

 

[howboutthemdawgs]

Well depends on your personal stance. If it’s legal it removes one barrier. Personally I would never ever shoot an animal over bait. To me (which again is personal) it’s basically converting wildlife to livestock. I enjoy the challenge. Plus I cant picture a scenario where I’m looking at a big mounted deer and telling someone “well, I was up in my stand and this buck came in to the feeder and I shot it with it’s head buried in a pile of corn”. Once again. It personal and you asked

 

[Mennoniteman]

The Pennsylvania Game Commission puts out warnings about acidosis, I have seen a few of these animals, if a deer is on a woods diet and happens upon a bird feeder or cornpile they will be standing in the middle of the road acting stupid a day later. But a steady food source does not present the danger of Rumen Acidosis. Here is the bulletin the PGC puts out every year;
Rumen Acidosis
Other Names: Grain overload, corn toxicity, lactic acidosis, carbohydrate engorgement

Cause
Rumen acidosis occurs when wild or domestic ruminants (deer, elk, moose, cattle, sheep etc.) ingest large quantities of readily digestible and highly fermentable carbohydrates, usually grain. Corn, wheat, and barley are most commonly responsible for rumen acidosis, while apples, grapes, bread, and sugar beets are less commonly involved.

Significance
This disease occurs in wild deer, elk, and moose when they suddenly gain access to a source of grain. Rumen acidosis can result in sporadic rapid deaths, but does not currently have a significant impact on wild ruminant populations. However, in restored or endangered populations it can be a serious source of mortality. In addition, its affect may be underestimated because of the inability to quantify those who survive and yet have shortened life spans because of the effects of this disease.

Species Affected
Rumen acidosis can occur in any ruminant. This disease is commonly observed in deer, elk, moose, and domestic cattle. Bison seem less susceptible, but can still suffer from grain overload.

Distribution
This disease can occur anywhere in the world when wild or domestic ruminants are suddenly introduced to large quantities of carbohydrates.

Transmission/Disease Development
The natural diet of deer and elk changes with the season and available foodstuffs but is generally high in fiber and low in carbohydrates. A sudden change in diet to high carbohydrate and low fiber disrupts the normal microflora (bacteria, protozoa, and fungi) in the rumen that is necessary for digestion. Carbohydrate digesting bacteria, which are normally present at lower densities, overwhelm the other flora and produce large amounts of lactic acid. This reduces the rumen pH to 5 or lower, which is too acidic for most of the normal rumen microflora. The acidification also reduces rumen motility so ingesta become trapped in the rumen. Fluid also moves into the rumen and becomes trapped, resulting in dehydration of the animal. The lactic acid is absorbed into the bloodstream and rises to potentially fatal levels; the acid also erodes the lining of the rumen causing inflammation and ulceration of the parts of the rumen wall that is responsible for absorbing nutrients. The severity of rumen acidosis depends on many factors including the type and amount of grain consumed and whether or not the animal had recently ingested that type of grain. When a toxic amount of grain is consumed, the rumen flora population will die within 2 to 6 hours.

Clinical Signs
Within 24 to 48 hours of ingesting large quantities of carbohydrates, the animal will stop eating and may be staggering, unable to rise, or standing quietly. Affected animals often have an enlarged rumen, diarrhea, and a normal temperature. The most severely affected will die within 24 to 72 hours. Since death is sudden, animals are usually in good body condition. At necropsy, the rumen is often full of corn or other grain, and their may be dark red erosions in the lining of the abomasum.

Diagnosis
Rumen acidosis can usually be diagnosed when ruminants in good body condition are found dead with large quantities of grain in their stomachs. Laboratory analysis of the rumen microflora can be used to support the diagnosis. The pH begins to rise after death and normal values at necropst do not rule out the disease.

Treatment
There is no treatment for rumen acidosis in wild ruminants because they are typically found dead. Likewise there is no treatment for those who escape death but have permanently damaged rumen lining.

Management/Prevention
Supplemental feeding of wild ruminants is often the cause of rumen acidosis; restrictions on supplemental feeding may help prevent the occurrence of this disease. In Pennsylvania, the Game Commission prohibits feeding of elk and feeding of deer is strongly discouraged.

 

[SwampCat]

Well depends on your personal stance. If it’s legal it removes one barrier. Personally I would never ever shoot an animal over bait. To me (which again is personal) it’s basically converting wildlife to livestock. I enjoy the challenge. Plus I cant picture a scenario where I’m looking at a big mounted deer and telling someone “well, I was up in my stand and this buck came in to the feeder and I shot it with it’s head buried in a pile of corn”. Once again. It personal and you asked

I couldn't bring myself to killing a deer over bait - but had no problem killing one out of my food plots. I own 400 acres, and numerous ten and 20 acre adjacent landowners put up feeders 20 yards off my property line. They literally kill every mature deer in the area. I plant 35 acres of food plots, cultivate my native grass, hinge cut, spend tens of thousands of dollars every year making my place more deer attractive, only to have my neighbors who do nothing but spread some corn killing all the deer. Literally, only about ten percent of mature bucks will make it through the year. After watching my neighbors kill all the mature bucks, and my family rarely killing one, this year - I said "enough". I put out a couple of bait piles and killed one of the mature bucks. I could have killed another but passed it, hopefully one of my family members would kill it - but a neighbor with 30 acres killed it. He, his buddy, and their grandkids have killed seven bucks this year off his 30 acres. We have killed two off my 400. At some point in time, I had to draw the line.

 

[DRandall90]

I couldn't bring myself to killing a deer over bait - but had no problem killing one out of my food plots. I own 400 acres, and numerous ten and 20 acre adjacent landowners put up feeders 20 yards off my property line. They literally kill every mature deer in the area. I plant 35 acres of food plots, cultivate my native grass, hinge cut, spend tens of thousands of dollars every year making my place more deer attractive, only to have my neighbors who do nothing but spread some corn killing all the deer. Literally, only about ten percent of mature bucks will make it through the year. After watching my neighbors kill all the mature bucks, and my family rarely killing one, this year - I said "enough". I put out a couple of bait piles and killed one of the mature bucks. I could have killed another but passed it, hopefully one of my family members would kill it - but a neighbor with 30 acres killed it. He, his buddy, and their grandkids have killed seven bucks this year off his 30 acres. We have killed two off my 400. At some point in time, I had to draw the line.

That sucks. I'm so glad you can't bait in Minnesota, not that I'm judging people that do where it's legal. There are other practices that pull and move mature bucks in hunting seasons too. The most common is chopping corn the day or two before deer opener. Sometimes that's just when it's ready to harvest though, so it's hard to argue.

 

[OkieKubota]

Here in Oklahoma baiting deer is so prominent that if you are not doing it yourself as swampcat said you won’t be seeing much. I have food plots but the mature deer rarely use them. I don’t know why because the does and young bucks love them and we hunted the plot less than 5 times since October and only 1 was shot there this fall. My neighbors have no plots, they have done no TSI or hinge cuts or anything. They put fabric blinds near spin feeders and I can hear them going off from the center of my property. It has been this way since we bought the place in 2014. The first couple of years the neighbors killed the biggest deer I had on camera off these feeders. I started feeding corn in earnest in 2017 and it has been a game changer on this property. We killed some good bucks here before when we had good acorn crops but now we are killing the top deer in the area acorns or not. I have a 4 port feeder that I am going through 300 lbs every 3 days with right now. The deer are in fantastic shape and I always figured it was no different than those midwestern deer that grow up around corn fields. They go from no corn while it is growing to a lot of corn when it ripens to no corn again once it is harvested. I will take the 4 port down once this 10 day doe rifle season that began today is over and I will put a spin feeder in its place and start weaning the deer off the corn gradually. I have 3 spin feeders and that 4 port on this property right now and as I said will switch to a 4th spin feeder and no 4 port. That will get me down to using about 100 lbs a week and I will keep lessening the feed times gradually until I can shut them off all together in March.

 

[Drycreek]

how high does the fence have to be to keep the hogs out?

Standard hog panels, 34” I think, maybe 32” though. Hogs would jump out if they were in there, but they won’t get in. In four years now that I’ve had multiple pens up, I’ve never had a picture of a hog in one of these pens. They will make a quick circle around and pick up what little corn is on the outside, but before the pens they spent hours under the feeder. Hell, I had pics of them laying under the feeders asleep. Bigger is probably better, but mine are all 8 panels and they’re 16’ long. Makes about a 40’ pen. I cut my T posts off until when the top is even with the panels, the plate is about 2” under the ground. The one in the picture was built before I started cutting the posts off.

 

[Drycreek]

Just to be clear. My stance on baiting or non-baiting is, it’s largely semantics.
If you hunt over a pile, you’re baiting.
If you hunt over a feeder, you’re baiting.
If you hunt over a food plot, you’re baiting.
If you hunt over a corn field, you’re baiting, even if you are off the field on a well used trail .....going to the cornfield
I can even make the same case if you’re hunting the only water for several hundred acres, (lots of antelope are killed every year this way, including the one in my avatar.)

The same thing can be said for a scrape line, acorns, etc. The fact is, even if you didn’t put out corn or plant a crop, you aren’t hunting in the Walmart parking lot, you’re hunting where you think or have reason to believe a deer wants to be, and that scrape, trail, or farm crop across the fence gives you an advantage over the deer. Even the act of using a treestand gives you an advantage or you would never climb a tree.
The only “pure” hunting would have to be what I call “still hunting”, just you and the deer playing hide and seek in the woods, and both on the ground. I hunted a lot like this as a young man, not very successfully, but there weren’t many deer here then. I’m sure I could do better now, for a couple days and by then I’d blow all the deer out and it would be over.

My point is, I use corn, maybe you use something else, but we are ALL doing something that’s not natural to give us an advantage.

 

[Deer Stuffer]

Drycut, you are exactly correct about everything you said.

 

[Deer Stuffer]

Contrary to what some people think. Killing mature bucks over corn is not a slam dunk. Just like killing mature bears iver bait isn't a slam dunk.

 

[BoneCrusher20]

https://www.qdma.com/which-deer-visit-feeders-and-when-new-research-is-out/

Only reason i remember it is because i forwarded onto buddy of mine who hunts solely on one bait pile and complains how all that comes in is yearling bucks (excluding very late season in N WI here). The study basically spells out that big mature bucks do not visit corn piles in daylight or if they do its rare occurrence.

 

[OkieKubota]

https://www.qdma.com/which-deer-visit-feeders-and-when-new-research-is-out/

Only reason i remember it is because i forwarded onto buddy of mine who hunts solely on one bait pile and complains how all that comes in is yearling bucks (excluding very late season in N WI here). The study basically spells out that big mature bucks do not visit corn piles in daylight or if they do its rare occurrence.

It all depends...I can show you photo after photo of big mature deer on a corn feeder during daylight hours in heavily hunted areas. Where the feeder is placed is key...

 

[BoneCrusher20]

It all depends...I can show you photo after photo of big mature deer on a corn feeder during daylight hours in heavily hunted areas. Where the feeder is placed is key...

Suppose i should have also considered location. As in WI, extremely high hunting pressure state, mature bucks do not tolerate bait piles. Also just going off what the study shows. I've never hunted over bait pile, so no 1st hand experience, but obviously chance of success goes up "post-rut" and would surely agree well placed feeder will raise chance as well.

 

[Deer Stuffer]

I have pics of at least 4 mature bucks on corn pile during daytime this year. You just have to be there when they come in and have your wind right.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Drycut, you are exactly correct about everything you said.

He goes by Drycreek...

 

[Drycreek]

What Okie said about location is correct. There will be a higher incidence of mature bucks at feeders where they feel safe. That would be in small openings in the woods or areas with little human intrusion no matter how thick. I hunt both kinds of places and the pic in my post above is from the 16,000 acre place that my friend has 2,500 acres leased. Nobody else hunts my stand and it’s 1,000+- yards from anyone else’s stand. I see lots of great bucks there, but I won’t shoot one unless he’s a jaw dropper.

On my place and my lease, you very seldom catch one in vicinity of the feeder after he gets 3.5 years old. The one exception to that is the “tree feeder” that I put in place last year. It straps to a tree, is directional, and blends in quite well. It throws the corn in a fan shaped pattern about 30/40 feet away. It’s coon proof and hog tough. So far, I like it.

 

[FL Plotter]

On a 1200 acre lease with 3 guys that don't hunt much. I can hunt anywhere I want and I know most if not all the trails and "good spots". Still I choose to sit in a condo overlooking an acre or more plot with a spin feeder. It's the way I like to hunt...I always see deer and if there is a good buck in the area, there is a much better chance of seeing him in the plot or around the feeder than in the woods.

Doesn't bother me one bit if they have corn or chicory in their mouths when I pull the trigger. It's not like they are stupid on corn or forgot how to smell.