clover/chicory question

[Petreaux1]

In south Mississippi and will plant Durana clover with six point chicory in 1/2 acre plot and have 3 questions:
Does the chicory qualify as a cover crop for the clover or is an additional seed like oats recommended?
Does 7 lbs clover and 3 lbs chicory sound right for 1/2 acre?
What is better: planting now with no rain forecast for next 12 days or waiting until November 1 which is my next opportunity to plant?
Thanks for any replies and good luck to all this season!

 

[dogghr]

I would plant with a grain 50-100# ac. Gives weed control and builds soil thatch. Provides food into early winter and early spring greenup. Let it self terminate next summer. If you haven’t done soil test I would add bag of lime and bag of 19-19-19 fert.
As for the rain, those types of seed is probably plant in Nov that far south. But they will survive and do ok if planted now most likely. Good luck.


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[Native Hunter]

To me your proposed ratio of clover and chicory are out of balance. You will end up with too much chicory and hardly any clover. Below is what I recommend per a full acre, and if doing spray/throw/mow, I would increase all species by 25 to 50 percent depending on various factors:

12 lbs per acre clover (7 medium red and 5 white is what I like)
3 lbs per acre chicory
50 lbs per acre grains (wheat is my preference but sometimes add some oats too)

 

[Brian]

In south Mississippi and will plant Durana clover with six point chicory in 1/2 acre plot and have 3 questions:
Does the chicory qualify as a cover crop for the clover or is an additional seed like oats recommended?
Does 7 lbs clover and 3 lbs chicory sound right for 1/2 acre?
What is better: planting now with no rain forecast for next 12 days or waiting until November 1 which is my next opportunity to plant?
Thanks for any replies and good luck to all this season!

I’m in SW Mississippi too, a few miles west of Centreville in Wilkinson County. Where are you located?

I would not even consider planting now because it’s too dry and still a little too early - anything planted before the end of September is inviting army worms. I usually plant mid to late October (depending on when rain is forecast) so November 1 is definitely not too late.

The comments about reducing the amount of chicory to 3# an acre and adding small grains are spot on (I “throw and mow” wheat at 100#/acre). The wheat gives you quick forage - at least once the rains return- and serve as a nurse crop to the clover and chicory. You won’t really see much from the chicory until next spring and it definitely is not a nurse crop for the clover.

Congrats if you’ve had luck with Durana in our area - I tried it a few times but never had much success and now plant a mix of annual clovers (crimson, arrowleaf and medium red). The crimson and arrowleaf reseed reliably in our climate although I do replant medium red each fall.

 

[Petreaux1]

Thanks for the replies. Plot is in Tylertown.
Another rookie question: I disced then dragged to smooth 3 weeks ago with plan to spray glypho for any new weeds, throw clover/chicory seeds, then make one pass w/ my drag (chain fence w/ logs) to set at 1/4 inch planting depth. I have never planted oats/wheat so: can I throw with other seeds or do I need to plant deeper? If deeper is necessary what is best way to do it? When I read a post " we planted oats into existing clover" does that mean they literally just threw the oats seeds in the clover field?
Re: Durana -This will be year 4 of me foodplotting, and year 4 trying to get this plot to be perennial. Durana comes in great, looks like a seed magazine cover from December well into May, then late Summer it fades and weeds come in hard. This year the tractor broke for a while so weeds won, so I disced and am starting over.
One more question....when instructions say "plant before a rain" does that mean one day before, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks???? September and October together may have 4 rain events total. Timing a rain is difficult with a job and 2 hour drive to the field.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Thanks for the replies. Plot is in Tylertown.
Another rookie question: I disced then dragged to smooth 3 weeks ago with plan to spray glypho for any new weeds, throw clover/chicory seeds, then make one pass w/ my drag (chain fence w/ logs) to set at 1/4 inch planting depth. I have never planted oats/wheat so: can I throw with other seeds or do I need to plant deeper? If deeper is necessary what is best way to do it? When I read a post " we planted oats into existing clover" does that mean they literally just threw the oats seeds in the clover field?
Re: Durana -This will be year 4 of me foodplotting, and year 4 trying to get this plot to be perennial. Durana comes in great, looks like a seed magazine cover from December well into May, then late Summer it fades and weeds come in hard. This year the tractor broke for a while so weeds won, so I disced and am starting over.
One more question....when instructions say "plant before a rain" does that mean one day before, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks???? September and October together may have 4 rain events total. Timing a rain is difficult with a job and 2 hour drive to the field.

Clover will go dormant when it's too hot and dry. It should bounce back when there's rain and/or cooler weather. You may want to consider mowing and/or spraying, instead of starting over.

 

[Brian]

Another rookie question: I disced then dragged to smooth 3 weeks ago with plan to spray glypho for any new weeds, throw clover/chicory seeds, then make one pass w/ my drag (chain fence w/ logs) to set at 1/4 inch planting depth. I have never planted oats/wheat so: can I throw with other seeds or do I need to plant deeper? If deeper is necessary what is best way to do it?

If you're broadcasting into disced and smoothed dirt then dragging should be sufficient - I've done it that way several times myself. Depth of planting isn't really an issue with wheats or oats BUT you want to make sure that you make enough passes with your drag so that the seeds are thoroughly mixed with the dirt so the birds at least have to work to get to them!

One more question....when instructions say "plant before a rain" does that mean one day before, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks???? September and October together may have 4 rain events total. Timing a rain is difficult with a job and 2 hour drive to the field.

Welcome to what passes for fall in south Mississippi! Ideally it would start raining just as you pull into the tractor shed after planting - and that even happed to me one year - but the reality is that rain is scarce this time of year and even when forecast it may not happen. Don't worry about it too much - if the seed ends up sitting in the ground for a few weeks it will be just fine waiting for some moisture so that it can germination... if the birds don't get to it first! The bigger problem is any nitrogen fertilizer you put out going to waste. If I don't have a high confidence in rain within a few days of planting I usually wait until after germination to fertilize.

 

[Petreaux1]

Thanks Brian for the good local advice. I am eyeing Oct 1 as next forecast rain date, hope it holds true.

 

[Petreaux1]

Follow up post: the Fall 2022 clover/chicory plot grew pretty good, thanks to all for the advice. Summer 2023 record heat/drought had ground baked hard like cement with almost zero visible clover or chicory. I planted Six Point chicory only last November 1 and kind of gave up on clover for that season. Chicory did well and in early December to my huge surprise the clover started growing back! By March 1 it looked like a perfect magazine cover clover/chicory plot. Today there is a good bit of clover and fair amount chicory still visible: both very wilted and half baked but still there. Question 1: I fully expect clover to come back, should I expect Chicory to also come back or need to reseed?
Question 2: Johnsongrass came in hard in July, is now good time to spray Clethodim (high temp still near 90, October dry season still ahead)?
Thanks for any advice and Happy Hunting to All.

 

[yoderjac]

In south Mississippi and will plant Durana clover with six point chicory in 1/2 acre plot and have 3 questions:
Does the chicory qualify as a cover crop for the clover or is an additional seed like oats recommended?
Does 7 lbs clover and 3 lbs chicory sound right for 1/2 acre?
What is better: planting now with no rain forecast for next 12 days or waiting until November 1 which is my next opportunity to plant?
Thanks for any replies and good luck to all this season!

Nope! Use Winter Rye as the cover corp.
I used to mix chicory with my perennial clover when I was using ladino. When I switched to Durana, after a few years, the Durana would out-compete the chicory and I'd end up with a field of Durana. This might be different for you as I'm further north in VA zone 7a. For me, the chicory would cover the summer period when ladino went dormant. Durana is much more drought tolerant than ladino and only goes dormant for a short period if at all depending on how dry our summer is.

It is always better to wait for rain in the forecast. Perennial clover is a long-term investment. I've gotten up to 10 years out of a durana field. The best practice is to plant it with a Winter Rye nurse crop in the fall when evenings start to turn cool. Get a good burn down prior to planting. Durana is slow to establish. The winter rye keeps weeds at bay while the clover is putting down its roots. During the first spring after planting, each time the winter rye hits 12-18 inches and begins to shade out the clover, mow it back to 6-8 inches. This will release the clover to the sun without killing the rye.