This pic is my first attempt at throw and mow. Sprayed glypho twice over 1 month, spread clover and 1 test strip clover/chicory mix Sep. 19th, then mowed with bushhog lowest setting 2 passes. I basically felt I was making mulch out of the dead grass. The thatch/mulch is average 3" tall with some 5" areas and some bare ground. This photo is Sep. 19th plant date and it then got 6 days rain from tropical storm Beta . I will go back Saturday to fertilize w/ 0-20-20 . Question: does this look like correct amount of thatch/mulch ? or do I need to remove some? The left side of plot is clover that made it through summer! Thanks in advance for any advice.
butyrac in clover question
- Thread starter Petreaux1
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This pic is my first attempt at throw and mow. Sprayed glypho twice over 1 month, spread clover and 1 test strip clover/chicory mix Sep. 19th, then mowed with bushhog lowest setting 2 passes. I basically felt I was making mulch out of the dead grass. The thatch/mulch is average 3" tall with some 5" areas and some bare ground. This photo is Sep. 19th plant date and it then got 6 days rain from tropical storm Beta . I will go back Saturday to fertilize w/ 0-20-20 . Question: does this look like correct amount of thatch/mulch ? or do I need to remove some? The left side of plot is clover that made it through summer! Thanks in advance for any advice.
That deer was a cowhorn 4 last year and is a cowhorn 4 this year, although the horns are a tiny bit taller. He weighs as much as any deer on my cameras this year . Would this be considered a cull buck? Maybe take him instead of a meat doe? He hangs around a nice 8 that is same size exactly-I think they are twin brothers.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
Thatch is the hardest part of TnM. Having the right stuff, enough of it, and getting it down evenly is the challenge. I don't know southern growing, so I can't guess how that'll turn out for you. But if it doesn't work, back up a step and focus on growing a thatch crop first, and then on being able to get it down evenly.
Drycreek
Well-Known Member
I can’t speak to TnM, my only try was a resounding failure, but I would eat that buck instead of a doe. Looks likewhat he is what he’s gonna be. I have one on my lease that, although he’s an eight point, seems to have the same dinky rack the last three years. I can’t tell from the two pics I have this year if he’s even legal, gotta be 13” inside, but if he is I’ll take him if I can. 
DocHolladay
Well-Known Member
I normally mow my TnM at 6-8”(closer to 8”). It’s not as thick on the mulch side of things. I don’t remove any thatch, just let it lay.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
If you can't see a few glimpses of dirt through the thatch it's too thick. A perfect thatch totally covers the dirt, with just a little bit of dirt showing. If there's no dirt peeking through it's probably a little thick for the seeds to push up through. A lot of dirt showing allows some of the the seed to dry out, resulting in poor germination.
Left half of plot is throw n mow attempt #1, at 20 days old. Clover coming up, not everywhere but there is more under the thatch than this photo shows. I think maybe %80 coverage, we shall see. The bright green is the chicory test strip down the middle coming up great. All the clumps of thatch seen are from &^%$#@! pigs.
Right side of plot doing great with huge rain boost from storms beta and delta. Without pig and turkey damage this side would be %100 covered. This was planted 9-23-19, first attempt perennial clover, and it made it through summer! Many sincere thanks to those on this site who helped with advice .Throw n mow follow up: left side of plot was throw n mow attempt #1, has %50 to maybe %60 coverage. I sprayed clethodim to kill grasses and the clover that is there is doing real good. I think the pigs rutting and piling up the thatch in very large piles was a big part of the failure rate. Hopefully it will fill in over winter. Center light green is test strip chicory, doing good. Second pic is right side of plot planted october '19, doing great. 3 Tropical storms and 4 hurricanes worth of rain certainly helped. Deer are in it almost every night but almost never in daytime......but one of them will make a mistake soon .
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The right side of this pic was the throw n mow planted Sep. 19, 2020. I was very happy to see it filled in over the last 3 months to approx. %95 clover w/ just a few weedy areas. Hand raking the clumped up thatch piles, which were caused by rooting pigs, seemed to help the clover to fill in. The left side of this pic was traditional spray/disc/drag /plant in Oct. 2019 and it is near %100 clover. So the throw n mow ended up being spray1/spray2/plant/hand rake but was still less work/time than the traditional method. I did spray clethodim and butyrac march 6 even though there weren't many weeds to kill. It will be interesting to see how the disced side vs the throw n mow side progresses. You can barely tell the 2 sides apart right now. Thanks for all the advice on here that got me to this point.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
It looks like your clover has arrived, it's a very nice looking plot. The next thing that often happens to clover plots that look as good as this one is that, because they look so great now, they tend to get neglected for the next several years, by the time the owner realizes that the plot is struggling it's almost too late to save it. Keep fertilizing and spraying it on schedule, even if it looks good.
Drycreek
Well-Known Member
You proved at least one thing that I’ve found to be true. If you are short of patience, don’t grow clover. It takes its own sweet time to reach its full potential. On our deer lease, I mowed plots just a couple days ago and discovered that my buddy’s plot was full of MRC that I planted year before last. It had so much clover in it that we decided to let it go with just a mowing to see what it does.
Your clover plot looks good !
Your clover plot looks good !
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Farmers generally frost seed red clover into winter wheat to make clover hay a year and a half down the road. You are 100% correct in saying that it takes perennial clover several years to establish.
Clover plot SOS:
july 10th photo , plot still looked pretty good. 95% clover %5 weeds
august 28 photo, plot went downhill fast. %50 clover, %50 weeds.Mostly johnsongrass but broadleafs too. A lot of areas clover just plain disappeared. So from May 3rd (see pic earlier post) when it looked dang near perfect to July 10 it was still looking good to Aug 28 overrun with weeds. My plan of "don't spray chemicals in the blistering heat of summer" failed badly. This past year I sprayed (clethodim/butyrac is all I know so far) March 8 and June 30 . As the heat beats down the clover new weeds seem to start sprouting. So 4 questions: should I spray March, June, July, and August since summer is when the weeds come in? Or switch to Imazethapyr two or three times a year? If I spray Imazethapyr now can I then overseed white clover into the many bare areas? Since it is year 3 do the bare areas already have natural clover seeds in the dirt ready to sprout with cooler weather and if so will they still sprout if I spray Imzethapyr now? %95 of what I know about plotting I learned on this forum so any help is greatly appreciated, once again .
july 10th photo , plot still looked pretty good. 95% clover %5 weedsaugust 28 photo, plot went downhill fast. %50 clover, %50 weeds.Mostly johnsongrass but broadleafs too. A lot of areas clover just plain disappeared. So from May 3rd (see pic earlier post) when it looked dang near perfect to July 10 it was still looking good to Aug 28 overrun with weeds. My plan of "don't spray chemicals in the blistering heat of summer" failed badly. This past year I sprayed (clethodim/butyrac is all I know so far) March 8 and June 30 . As the heat beats down the clover new weeds seem to start sprouting. So 4 questions: should I spray March, June, July, and August since summer is when the weeds come in? Or switch to Imazethapyr two or three times a year? If I spray Imazethapyr now can I then overseed white clover into the many bare areas? Since it is year 3 do the bare areas already have natural clover seeds in the dirt ready to sprout with cooler weather and if so will they still sprout if I spray Imzethapyr now? %95 of what I know about plotting I learned on this forum so any help is greatly appreciated, once again .
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
I can't help ya with Johnson grass. We don't have that up here. But I will tell you, you need to grow a grass and broadleaf with your clover, or nature will pick some out for you and usher them in.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
As Mark said, growing cereal grains interseeded into clover lowers nitrogen, and suppresses weeds.
A timely mowing followed a week later by a dose of clethodim will make that clover look like new. Clover will pop out in some of those spots that you think might be bare. Mowing also takes care of a lot of those unwanted broadleaf weeds. But the grass is the real enemy. I've had my best successes with cleth when applying a week after mowing. Time of summer doesn't seem as critical for clethodim spraying as it does for some other clover herbicides. The time to spray cleth is when you see grass. You probably had a few clumps of late summer grasses last fall and ignored them, leading to a good seeding. Spot spraying with a hand pump sprayer if there's only a few clumps saves an entire field spraying the next year.
Third observation, ladino clover doesn't naturally reseed as proficiently as most people think it does, reseeding every 3-4 years or reseeding bare spots is helpful in maintaining a healthy stand. Make sure that the seed hits dirt, killing the grasses off first is key to reseeding. A throw n mow is also key if reseeding in the fall.
A timely mowing followed a week later by a dose of clethodim will make that clover look like new. Clover will pop out in some of those spots that you think might be bare. Mowing also takes care of a lot of those unwanted broadleaf weeds. But the grass is the real enemy. I've had my best successes with cleth when applying a week after mowing. Time of summer doesn't seem as critical for clethodim spraying as it does for some other clover herbicides. The time to spray cleth is when you see grass. You probably had a few clumps of late summer grasses last fall and ignored them, leading to a good seeding. Spot spraying with a hand pump sprayer if there's only a few clumps saves an entire field spraying the next year.
Third observation, ladino clover doesn't naturally reseed as proficiently as most people think it does, reseeding every 3-4 years or reseeding bare spots is helpful in maintaining a healthy stand. Make sure that the seed hits dirt, killing the grasses off first is key to reseeding. A throw n mow is also key if reseeding in the fall.
