butyrac in clover question

[Mennoniteman]

Hi Guys, my first attempt at perennial Durana clover is doing well, 8 inches tall in most places. It started doing good in December then really took off in January. The grasses that were there Oct.1 were still there Feb. 1, they didn't die over this very mild winter. I hit it with clethodim 8 oz per acre Feb 1 and March 1. It did pretty good on the grasses in spots but didn't kill it all. Question: The clethodim label says "max 16 oz per acre per season per year" which I am already at 16 oz.. Does anyone know can I hit it again without damage to clover?. On the broadleaf side I sprayed Butyrac 1.5 quarts per acre Feb 8 . It did kill a good bit of the broadleafs but now I see the weed in photo below coming in kinda strong. Also a few other broadleafs coming up. I can't seem to find maximum times per year I can hit clover with Butyrac on the label??. Any info on how often and max per year ya'll spray Clethodim and Butyrac would be much appreciated.

If it's absolutely not on the label I'd limit yearly applications to 2 or 3 at the most. Any more than that would seem to be excessive, and would indicate that 2,4dB obviously isn't working for the kind of weeds that you are trying to kill. I'd strongly advise you to check out using Thunder herbicide at 4 oz per acre available Daniel's farm store for $189 a gallon. This product sounds pricey, but is actually cheaper per acre, replaces both Clethodim and Butyrac 200 so you only make one pass for all of your weeds. Thunder herbicide has a residual effect and will clean up tough weeds that your other herbicide won't, and you will be amazed by how clean your clover looks. Spray when the weeds are 3" high or mow before spraying.

 

[Petreaux1]

If it's absolutely not on the label I'd limit yearly applications to 2 or 3 at the most. Any more than that would seem to be excessive, and would indicate that 2,4dB obviously isn't working for the kind of weeds that you are trying to kill. I'd strongly advise you to check out using Thunder herbicide at 4 oz per acre available Daniel's farm store for $189 a gallon. This product sounds pricey, but is actually cheaper per acre, replaces both Clethodim and Butyrac 200 so you only make one pass for all of your weeds. Thunder herbicide has a residual effect and will clean up tough weeds that your other herbicide won't, and you will be amazed by how clean your clover looks. Spray when the weeds are 3" high or mow before spraying.

 

[Petreaux1]

First attempt perennial durana clover, planted this fall, hit with clethodim twice and butyrac once(all in February). First pic is foodplot today, 12-16 inches tall . Few heads turning brown, most still white. Should I cut it? Will it reseed itself if cut while heads are white or do I have to wait until they are all brown? I am also curious if other folks with extreme summers (I am in Southwest Mississippi) cut their clover and when? Second pic is a trail taken from stand. This is 9-12 inches tall. Do I cut it or just let it grow? It does seem to be getting somewhat matted with loads of horizontal stems; there is more stems than leaves now. I sprayed glypho to make the 3 foot wide dead strips on each side of trail to try to keep weeds out, which seems to help so far. I did some spot spraying with glypho on the few weeds present today with the hope for no more chemicals for a while due to summer heat is coming fast. For a rookie farmer I think they look healthy, but what do ya'll see??? I dont know what to expect when blazing heat hits. Any advice or tips to keep this stuff alive through summer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance , Pete​

 

[shawn cox]

View attachment 18850 View attachment 18851

First attempt perennial durana clover, planted this fall, hit with clethodim twice and butyrac once(all in February). First pic is foodplot today, 12-16 inches tall . Few heads turning brown, most still white. Should I cut it? Will it reseed itself if cut while heads are white or do I have to wait until they are all brown? I am also curious if other folks with extreme summers (I am in Southwest Mississippi) cut their clover and when? Second pic is a trail taken from stand. This is 9-12 inches tall. Do I cut it or just let it grow? It does seem to be getting somewhat matted with loads of horizontal stems; there is more stems than leaves now. I sprayed glypho to make the 3 foot wide dead strips on each side of trail to try to keep weeds out, which seems to help so far. I did some spot spraying with glypho on the few weeds present today with the hope for no more chemicals for a while due to summer heat is coming fast. For a rookie farmer I think they look healthy, but what do ya'll see??? I dont know what to expect when blazing heat hits. Any advice or tips to keep this stuff alive through summer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance , Pete​

they look really good. Next time you are out mow you a strip just taking off the seed heads and see if it helps regrowth now. Don't mow it near summer or during stress periods. I am in south Georgia and we get extreme heat. If you get the right rains it will continue to grow but if it gets hot and dry be prepared for it to look like it died off, but it will still be alive under the soil and will come back when conditions are more favorable for growing again. I mowed mine about a 3 weeks ago but what the deer are not keeping ate down is seeding out and I will go ahead and let it set seed because I know in a few month it will stop growing unless we get some good summer rains like a few years ago. I use the free seed to thicken the plots up every year. This year is the best my clover plots have looked and are getting fed in really good now.

 

[Mennoniteman]

View attachment 18850 View attachment 18851

First attempt perennial durana clover, planted this fall, hit with clethodim twice and butyrac once(all in February). First pic is foodplot today, 12-16 inches tall . Few heads turning brown, most still white. Should I cut it? Will it reseed itself if cut while heads are white or do I have to wait until they are all brown? I am also curious if other folks with extreme summers (I am in Southwest Mississippi) cut their clover and when? Second pic is a trail taken from stand. This is 9-12 inches tall. Do I cut it or just let it grow? It does seem to be getting somewhat matted with loads of horizontal stems; there is more stems than leaves now. I sprayed glypho to make the 3 foot wide dead strips on each side of trail to try to keep weeds out, which seems to help so far. I did some spot spraying with glypho on the few weeds present today with the hope for no more chemicals for a while due to summer heat is coming fast. For a rookie farmer I think they look healthy, but what do ya'll see??? I dont know what to expect when blazing heat hits. Any advice or tips to keep this stuff alive through summer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance , Pete​

I just sat and looked at your picture for a while because I love looking at nice clover plots like romantic people like looking at sunsets. You're not a rookie anymore, you just graduated, you can come and manage my clover anytime! As you have figured out, the summer heat will be your biggest enemy with ladino clover. The decision to mow that now could go either way, with nobody knowing what the weather is going to be like out ahead, but I'd be slow to mow, why mess with a good thing? the main reasons to mow are to fight weeds and to promote new young growth, and it doesn't look like you need either. The thicker the clover is for the heat of the summer the better, because that thickness prevents the sun from hitting bare dirt and cooking the moisture out of the ground, and ladino will seem like a thick mat sometimes but is doing just great. If you do decide mow, I'd definitely mow it high. The work on food plots seems like it's never done, but this may be one time to kick back for a while with a cold drink and proclaim victory, and just let the plot do what it's supposed to do, feed your deer.

 

[THE LLC]

Don’t mow. May is going to be HOT. Don’t stress it.

 

[Petreaux1]

Got it, no mowing no chemicals unless weeds move in heavy. I will try to take 2 pics at same spots once a month and post up here for progress reports. This is photo of same trail last June, much better this year, so definitely keep that advice coming. Thanks again.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Got it, no mowing no chemicals unless weeds move in heavy. I will try to take 2 pics at same spots once a month and post up here for progress reports. This is photo of same trail last June, much better this year, so definitely keep that advice coming. Thanks again.

What did you spray that with last summer?

 

[Petreaux1]

I didnt save the plot I started over: I sprayed glypho to kill Sep 8 and disced it under and replanted durana clover on Sep 23.

 

[Petreaux1]

1 month later , clover looking a bit stressed. First pic is same spot 1/2 acre plot, some broadleafs moving in, clover looks rough in areas. Second pic is same trail, looks better than plot but not great like they both did 1 month ago. Rainfall been pretty good lately and was not a overly hot May. I am not sure if visible in these photos but there are white spots on the clover with some evidence of insect damage. A lot of white spots. Seems like some kind of fungus?? Anybody know what it is and what, if anything, I need to do about it? I would sure like to get it back to healthy looking before August drought comes.

 

[Petreaux1]

 

[Petreaux1]

 

[Mennoniteman]

It's not as nice as it was, but it's still looking pretty good. It almost looks like aphids or the sap they leave behind on those leaves. Get a magnifying glass and take a closer look at the white specks.

 

[Petreaux1]

271 -white spots, under magnifying glass looks like white paint to me
272-scratched off with fingernail, black underneath
277-end result, starting to brown then shrivels up dead/dying
Local consensus is possible aphid poop, or a fungus feeding on aphid poop. Sprayed 1 pint malathion in 23 gallons water for 1 acre last Saturday to kill aphids. Then 2 hours later it stormed pretty good. Going up tomorrow, then wont be back up for 5-6 weeks. Should I spray malathion again? Same application rate? I am inclined to respray but have no clue on how malathion does with quick rain. Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Mennoniteman]

271 -white spots, under magnifying glass looks like white paint to me
272-scratched off with fingernail, black underneath
277-end result, starting to brown then shrivels up dead/dying
Local consensus is possible aphid poop, or a fungus feeding on aphid poop. Sprayed 1 pint malathion in 23 gallons water for 1 acre last Saturday to kill aphids. Then 2 hours later it stormed pretty good. Going up tomorrow, then wont be back up for 5-6 weeks. Should I spray malathion again? Same application rate? I am inclined to respray but have no clue on how malathion does with quick rain. Any advice greatly appreciated.

I would probably respray, I'm guessing that you had a good kill rate on the aphids, but not a complete kill, since the rain hit so soon after the application. And malathion isn't nearly as expensive as some aphid sprays.

 

[Petreaux1]

report: One week after spraying Malathion, plus it was a dry, low humidity week, the white spots on clover leaves are gone. Totally disappeared with no residue! The damage of dark spots , yellowing, and wilting is still there but is only on %15 of plot and even these areas are looking way better than last week. There were no visible aphids on leaves but were fruit fly looking critters flying by, and a freaking bumblebee convention on the seedheads,. Ran out of time so I didn't re-spray . I did mow a test strip down to 9" and another down to 5-6 inches, so we will see the results of that experiment next trip up. Thanks for all the help,

 

[Petreaux1]

 

[Mennoniteman]

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Considering the time of year I'd say your clover is looking really good. And the cooler weather coming should really make it pop up.

 

[Petreaux1]

Oops, I was having trouble loading pics and didnt even know they actually went through. I have been hand weeding a couple hours every few weeks and mostly keeping up with the broadleafs that are continually sprouting. The clover is thin in some areas but overall looks like it should make it!!! In image 2, the big bare spot is where 11 turkeys are hitting it hard every day. Some days they are on camera for 2+ hours. The left half of that plot is 1/4 acre weeds now and I plan to plant clover/chicory late September. Between throw and mow versus disc/drag/broadcast seed, which is the more turkey resistant method? I do not have a cultipacker to smash seeds into ground so last year I just broadcast seed into smoothed dirt and went over with the drag a couple passes. I would like to try throw n mow but am afraid turkeys will eat the seeds. I planted 5 foot x 50 foot strip of corn this spring and a grand total of 1 cornstalk sprouted. All the rest of corn seeds were eaten. A couple months back i was walking in some brush and a turkey exploded literally at my feet, scared heck out of me or I could have grabbed it barehanded, and I looked down at a nest full of eggs. I left them be and now the whole dang family is eating my clover down to dirt. I didnt even know turkeys ate clover...... does anybody know a ( legal) way to get rid of them?

 

[Mennoniteman]

Oops, I was having trouble loading pics and didnt even know they actually went through. I have been hand weeding a couple hours every few weeks and mostly keeping up with the broadleafs that are continually sprouting. The clover is thin in some areas but overall looks like it should make it!!! In image 2, the big bare spot is where 11 turkeys are hitting it hard every day. Some days they are on camera for 2+ hours. The left half of that plot is 1/4 acre weeds now and I plan to plant clover/chicory late September. Between throw and mow versus disc/drag/broadcast seed, which is the more turkey resistant method? I do not have a cultipacker to smash seeds into ground so last year I just broadcast seed into smoothed dirt and went over with the drag a couple passes. I would like to try throw n mow but am afraid turkeys will eat the seeds. I planted 5 foot x 50 foot strip of corn this spring and a grand total of 1 cornstalk sprouted. All the rest of corn seeds were eaten. A couple months back i was walking in some brush and a turkey exploded literally at my feet, scared crapola out of me or I could have grabbed it barehanded, and I looked down at a nest full of eggs. I left them be and now the whole dang family is eating my clover down to dirt. I didnt even know turkeys ate clover...... does anybody know a (mostly legal) way to get rid of them?

They must be desperate for food. Isn't there much greens in the area? The simplest solution would be to make the food plot a little bigger. Turkeys don't eat that much, with a little more area you can outgrow them.