Bulidng soil/step #1

[Bigeight]

I want to take the plunge in building some sandy soil on the side of my parents pond for their wildlife viewing pleasure. I have tried some fall plots in that area with minimal returns, because I half arse'd it.

Only thing I have tried in the past to build soils has been buckwheat. I really wasn't left with anything to plow down when it was time to do so.

My goal is to eventually get this area into a grain type rotation. Oats, Rye, radishes, and red clover in the fall with red clover/rye left in the spring/summer for grazing, turkey strutting, then tilling under and repeating.

What is the best step for NEXT year's spring planting for a plow down to start the build?

Thanks

 

[Smallplot]

First step is getting rid of thought of plowing down or tilling the ground every year. Every time you do this it sets you back even further.

Look into the throw and grow methods and when selecting plants look for the most root mass above all else. The next consideration is keeping something growing year round.

The next is patients. This is going to be a process that takes years if not decades. Year to year progress may only be visible in soil tests done over consecutive years.


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[George]

rye for building, radish for enrichment.

G

 

[Bigeight]

Rye in the spring ?

 

[George]

They won't be vernalized so perhaps oats if you want some heads.

G

 

[dogghr]

Frost seed WR and RC in late winter. WR will grow until late June. RC will continue. Mid Aug overseed brassica then in late Oct overseed WR/RC mix. Allow that to go until next fall and repeat. Or you could just do the typical LC rotation, it don't get any better than that with just a few tweaks for your northern area.
And make sure ph is close to 6+

 

[George]

I did well with rye and/or oats for loosening up my clay in Iowa.

G

 

[Bigeight]

Perfect. Thanks fellas !!

 

[catscratch]

Building soil is all about a constant cycle of growth. Plants grow both up (stems) and down (roots). Roots insert organic matter and stems can be layered on top of the soil. Bacteria and fungi then digest the plant cell's carbs and convert them into usable nutrients. When you plow you kill or disrupt the bacteria and fungi colony's and slow down soil building.

Like said by others above; find something that grows in your soil, terminate it, get something else growing immediately, and don't do anything that will disrupt your microbiology. Rye and buckwheat can work great but you don't have to ignore natives (weeds). Often times weeds that pop up after you kill what is established are very suited to growth in your soil and are also great soil builders. You don't necessarily have to re-invent or fight nature. I'm having great luck building soil the last couple of yrs using these concepts but I have more of a clay base to work with.

Good luck to ya!

 

[Bigeight]

When you "terminate" what's growing at the moment to overseed. Do you mean spray with herbicides ? Does that affect the microbiology. Or do you mean just brush hog Down, and overseed?

 

[Chainsaw]

If it is a small area, don't hesitate to bring in compost building materials. My town dumped off wood chips for me, another town dumped off leaves for me; I heard of some people leaving a wagon at the local sawmill to collect sawdust. A neighbor brings me leaves and I add grass clippings to it as well as ashes and sawdust I create in my activities. Yes I get some bad weeds now and then but they just die young. Sand is hard to build into soil as the organic matter can get washed down into the sand and is gone so it is almost like there is no such thing as too much compost. If you have any areas where good soil has washed in for years, relocating some of it helps. Other things like old moldy hay, horse manure work, or mowing from another field are sometimes available for free. A farmer with more cow manure than he can spread on his own fields is a good source for organic matter. Just paying for the transport and manure spreading service can often get the cow manure.
Also do a google search on Hugelkultur. It is a way of building soil where nothing will grow. It is a bit extreme composting whole trees and such but it might give you some ideas on adding materials to the soil to speed the process up.

 

[catscratch]

When you "terminate" what's growing at the moment to overseed. Do you mean spray with herbicides ? Does that affect the microbiology. Or do you mean just brush hog Down, and overseed?

Yes, I use generic glysophate (the active ingredient in Roundup). You can find sites that say's it's bad for the microbes... but it makes things so much easier it's worth the risk to me.

If you have a roller/crimper that can work to terminate too. I don't have one so I spray.

Mowing doesn't kill what's growing, so whatever you overseed will have established competition. Not great for what you plant.

How familiar are you with this site? Have you found the Thrown n Mow thread? It can help with what I'm talking about. Very informative thread!

 

[Bigeight]

Thanks, I'll look up that thread, and get to reading !!

 

[dogghr]

When you "terminate" what's growing at the moment to overseed. Do you mean spray with herbicides ? Does that affect the microbiology. Or do you mean just brush hog Down, and overseed?

If I'm overseeding into a nice stand of WR/ WW and RC I just spread, then mow and let it do its stuff. If overseeding into spent brassica late fall then no need to spray. Saves time and money.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I'd shoot for a grass legume combo right off the bat. If the site is dry, I'd go with a barley/cowpea combo. Both are champs in dry conditions within their groups. I've found barley to do better in a throw and grow application vs oats. Cowpea will at least need to be pushed into the soil with a packer or have some weed mulch on top of it. That'll be your basis for this year's soil building. Come late summer, broadcast rye and a good clover blend into it and mow your barley/cowpea down on top of it.

Leave the iron in the shed.

 

[Jeff H]

If it is a small area, don't hesitate to bring in compost building materials. My town dumped off wood chips for me, another town dumped off leaves for me; I heard of some people leaving a wagon at the local sawmill to collect sawdust. A neighbor brings me leaves and I add grass clippings to it as well as ashes and sawdust I create in my activities. Yes I get some bad weeds now and then but they just die young. Sand is hard to build into soil as the organic matter can get washed down into the sand and is gone so it is almost like there is no such thing as too much compost. If you have any areas where good soil has washed in for years, relocating some of it helps. Other things like old moldy hay, horse manure work, or mowing from another field are sometimes available for free. A farmer with more cow manure than he can spread on his own fields is a good source for organic matter. Just paying for the transport and manure spreading service can often get the cow manure.
Also do a google search on Hugelkultur. It is a way of building soil where nothing will grow. It is a bit extreme composting whole trees and such but it might give you some ideas on adding materials to the soil to speed the process up.

Chainsaw I've been doing some reading on Hugelkultur and while watching a You Tube video wondered if anyone has used these in deer plots. Seems like it would break up a plot nicely, add OM, bacteria and moisture. Seems especially productive in drier regions... good stuff and interesting how we seem to be "discovering" things that have been around for centuries.

 

[John Barnes]

You didn't mention what size the area is? If it's small enough haul your grass clippings, leaves, wood chips, or any other organic matter you can come up with and dump it off there. Another thing I would do once you've got some organic matter there is buy about 5 dozen earthworms. They'll make much quicker work of turning that stuff into usable material.

 

[Bigeight]

It's probably between 3/4 - acre in size.

 

[Smallplot]

Ok you said it was a sandy area. My question leads me to ask how deep the sand is in this area? Some areas the sand is shallow and some areas it is deep. Also does it look like a beach, or just sandy soil? Next question you said it is near a pond. I assume it is not on the dam side but is it in an area prone to hold moisture? Having a sandy spot next to a pond kind of makes me wonder if someone had made their own beach at one point in time. Trying to wrap my head around the whole situation, sorry for all the questions.


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[Chainsaw]

Chainsaw I've been doing some reading on Hugelkultur and while watching a You Tube video wondered if anyone has used these in deer plots. Seems like it would break up a plot nicely, add OM, bacteria and moisture. Seems especially productive in drier regions... good stuff and interesting how we seem to be "discovering" things that have been around for centuries.

You got that right Jeff. There is little new under the sun. Leaving the tops in place after logging is a small scale Hugelkultur which we have all likely seen helps cause better growth. I am in a very wet area but still I have a couple of sand food plots (1/10th acre types in between wild apple trees) that are hard to grow stuff in as most years it just dries up and young plants can't get past that. So there are applications here for Hugelkultur. My plan is to continue to haul in and dump organic matter on my two tiny sandy plots but not trees and stumps. And then to dig muck out of the bordering wet spot and put it on top, disk lightly or fence drag to smooth it and plant it. That would be a form of Hugelkultur though not a no holds barred form of it.

But no, other than bags of leaves, horse manure, grass clippings and general compost I have not used the Hugelkultur process where every type and size of vegetation including trees is used. And In my travels I have not met anyone that has. I have seen it though where it was done unintentionally and the results were exceptional growth compared to the surrounding area.

It's really a no brainer as to whether it would work for small food plots or not. It would just take elapsed time to decompose once all the plant material is dragged in. And If one put three inches of soil on top it would work right away and just keep getting better as time went on. I should add that those two sandy plots here used too have a thin layer of soil on top of them and plants struggled but grew good enough. It was our deep plowing many years go that brought just sand to the surface layer in those two plots and things no longer grew even good enough in them after that. I'm not against plowing in general YET but on thin topsoil spots our Plowing temporarily ruined those two plots.

For small plots in need of soil I can't see not adding vegetation waste to jump start the soil building process.