3 Most OVERRATED Trees for Whitetail Deer

[Fishman]

Does anyone know Don Higgins or where he lives? I have the pitchforks and torches. This heretic must be burned at the stake. All kidding aside, he does bring up some valid points. I tend to agree with him on sawtooths and Dunstan chestnuts. Where I am at, sawtooths drop in August and I have witnessed quite a few that have died in less than 25 years. The Dunstans are pretty much fully Chinese chestnuts and you are paying for all of the marketing. I do have several that are doing well after a few years, but I purchased them on clearance. I would never purchase them, or any tree for that matter, at the full $35 asking price. I don't have experience with apples in the south. What say you? Is it pitchforks and torches or do you tend to agree with him?

 

[catscratch]

Our sawtooths drop early... but they are a pretty tree, fast growing, and hold leafs all winter making for good cover. I tend to agree though... that marketing playes a bigger part of a lot of products popularity than actual attributes.

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[g squared 23]

My brother just sent me the video too. I don’t have the long term experience with the trees he mentioned to have an opinion one way or the other, but the opinions regarding tree planting on this forum have been similar to any investment in the stock market: diversity is your friend, never put your eggs in one or two baskets whether that be mast or food plots or single stocks. Will be interesting to hear his recommendations for the 3 best types of trees to plant. I’m guessing crabs, pears, and persimmons as they stereotypically have fewer disease issues and need less babying.

By the way, Don is an Illinois guy. He’s in the land consulting business, also sells his own seed blends. He hunts around 18 properties every year and kills a booner almost every year. He has 3 bucks that score over 200”, so he knows a thing or two.


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[Fishman]

By the way, Don is an Illinois guy. He’s in the land consulting business.

I wasn't doubting his credentials. I would think that a guy who has planted a few million trees probably knows a thing or two about trees. I am also looking forward to his three best trees video.

 

[Native Hunter]

This is my take on the three trees he mentioned:

Sawtooth Oaks:

• I have a strain that drops into early November.
• Deer are crazy about the acorns.
• My trees started bearing in about 6 years and were strong bearing by year 9.
• We had a historic late freeze last spring that killed all fruit and toasted leaves on all trees at my farm. Yet, the sawtooths were able to rebound and make acorns when everything else failed.
• I've never had one to die. We experienced a -28 degree winter a few years ago.
• No other oak that I've seen is as reliable. A friend of mine says it best: "It's not because the acorns are any better, it's because they are always there."
• I'm adding more this spring,

Dunstan Chestnuts:

• I don't like them as well as Chinese.
• Mine have been slower to put on growth and slower to bear than Chinese.
• The Chinese are much heavier producers of chestnuts for me.
• The drop times on the ones I have are about the same.
• I like having a few Dunstans, but I prefer Chinese.

Apples:

• Unless you plant the right apples you are better off not planting any apples in my area. However, if you get the right ones, they are a great whitetail tree and worth all of the effort. In fact, they are no harder to take care of than any other tree. The reason most people fail with apples is because they try to grow hippie apples.
• When choosing varieties, make sure you stay with ones that have a high resistance to all of the diseases in your area. For me, that is fireblight, juniper rusts (including CAR), scab and powdery mildew. For instance, if you are in an area with no CAR (or very light CAR), Goldrush is considered a very DR apple and easy to grow. However, in my area it is a total disaster without spraying.
• Look at the apples in some of my threads. None of these have been sprayed or had any special treatment. All of the major diseases are strong in the area where I live, and you will only be successful here without spraying if you choose the right cultivars.
• You must cage them to protect from rubbing/browsing, and I highly recommend screen wire to protect from rodents - but that is true of most any good tree that you invest in.
• It is a pain for a beginner to try and figure out all of the variables when planting apples. I started a thread or two in the fruit tree section of this forum to try and help people, because of the things I had to learn the hard way. Drop times vary from location to location, and there is some bad information and recommendations out there that can cause problems down the road. For instance, I planted a few B118 rootstock apples and now many of them are starting to lean badly. However, all of the ones I planted on MM111 have done outstanding, and I wouldn't take anything for those trees.
• Think of choosing apples like you were choosing players on your football team. You would want Tom Brady but you wouldn't want Pee-wee Herman........

 

[Chainsaw]

Everybody is right some of the time, a few are right most of the time and nobody is right all of the time. I never thought though I would disagree with Don Higgins on anything about whitetail habitat but he is a little off on saying apples are not one of if not the best habitat tree for deer. My experience with apples as the premier deer tree is based heavily on apples growing on northern New York properties. I would have agreed with Don had he said that over 99 % of the apple trees grown today(planted in the past) fail when it comes to feeding deer thru the fall.

About 1% of the 3,000 trees growing here however do drop their apples throughout the fall and continue to drop their apples into January with a few dropping even into February and beyond. In the winter here during the heaviest stress periods most of the apple trees provide excellent and abundant browse to the deer. The lateral branches of the apple trees catch and hold the snow which bends the branches down to the level a deer can reach. The tougher the winter the more likely the deer will be bedded close to or even under apple trees.

If it weren't for that 1% or if the apple trees themselves weren't such an efficient deer food bank, I would have agreed with Don. However that 1% of late dropping trees are here and the trees themselves are an efficient food bank for the deer. My conclusion is that either in Don's area he has more been exposed more to the 99% of apple tree varieties which simply don't cut it, or what happens here is not the same as what happens in his areas. Either scenario is possible because not everyone has seen or noticed the 1% and all of us in northern New York KNOW that hickory nuts are a great deer food that is sought after and readily eaten by them while other parts of the country report the opposite.

Here are a few other daytime travelers here that know where the 1% trees are. I could go on with many pages of daytime pictures of deer at apple trees but these few can tell the story that the 1% do exist. It is a simple matter of duplicating and propagating only the 1% of trees here and staying away from the other 99%.


Will forward this to DON with well intentions.

 

[DrDirtNap]

He may be right about his three most overrated trees if he’s talking about his area of the Midwest...I don’t know. But he’s incorrect on the sawtooths down south. Sawtooths are in my top three trees for whitetail. No question about it. I wish mine did drop later but they are consistent at producing an acorn crop and the deer sure like em. He says repeatedly that there are some native oak species that start producing just as fast as sawtooths...wonder what that is?


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[George]

I just kept my fingers shut waiting for Steve's and Dave's opinions about apples.

Back in the day I saw Dr Craig Harper was so anti sawtooth I was afraid to touch the stuff.

I can't say what the dunstans that friends here sent me, seeds, that I planted in Iowa look like now but I know that the Chinese in the Pastors yard dumps a major load that is a big hit with the critters.

G

 

[George]

I would like to see Don Higgins and Jeff Sturgis arm wrestle.

G

 

[George]

I think pear trees, white oaks, and alfalfa sprouts are over rated.

G

 

[OkieKubota]

He may be right about his three most overrated trees if he’s talking about his area of the Midwest...I don’t know. But he’s incorrect on the sawtooths down south. Sawtooths are in my top three trees for whitetail. No question about it. I wish mine did drop later but they are consistent at producing an acorn crop and the deer sure like em. He says repeatedly that there are some native oak species that start producing just as fast as sawtooths...wonder what that is?


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White oak here in Oklahoma produce and drop as early as Sawtooth...

 

[catscratch]

I have native Chinkapin and Dwarf Chinkapin oaks that seem to produce while young. I've read many times that Burr will produce young if pampered a little.

Truth is when it comes to trees I assume the actual benefits to deer are pretty small per my time invested... I just like to plant trees. For cost/time vs benefits I would think feeders and plots are the biggest bang for your buck when it's all said and done.

 

[George]

In Michigan I started with a tired old farm field where lime and trees from ColdStream were key. Beans and corn across the road. The deer ate my 3000 trees that I planted in Iowa. After a couple of years I caged off some planted oak re sprouts and I was growing Burr oak acorns for a few years prior to leaving. Food plots, killing invasives and fixing the existing habitat were key.

G

 

[MarkDarvin]

Three most overrated trees?

-Potted
-Bareroot
-Plugs

 

[TreeDaddy]

This is my take on the three trees he mentioned:

Sawtooth Oaks:

• I have a strain that drops into early November.
• Deer are crazy about the acorns.
• My trees started bearing in about 6 years and were strong bearing by year 9.
• We had a historic late freeze last spring that killed all fruit and toasted leaves on all trees at my farm. Yet, the sawtooths were able to rebound and make acorns when everything else failed.
• I've never had one to die. We experienced a -28 degree winter a few years ago.
• No other oak that I've seen is as reliable. A friend of mine says it best: "It's not because the acorns are any better, it's because they are always there."
• I'm adding more this spring,

Dunstan Chestnuts:

• I don't like them as well as Chinese.
• Mine have been slower to put on growth and slower to bear than Chinese.
• The Chinese are much heavier producers of chestnuts for me.
• The drop times on the ones I have are about the same.
• I like having a few Dunstans, but I prefer Chinese.

Apples:

• Unless you plant the right apples you are better off not planting any apples in my area. However, if you get the right ones, they are a great whitetail tree and worth all of the effort. In fact, they are no harder to take care of than any other tree. The reason most people fail with apples is because they try to grow hippie apples.
• When choosing varieties, make sure you stay with ones that have a high resistance to all of the diseases in your area. For me, that is fireblight, juniper rusts (including CAR), scab and powdery mildew. For instance, if you are in an area with no CAR (or very light CAR), Goldrush is considered a very DR apple and easy to grow. However, in my area it is a total disaster without spraying.
• Look at the apples in some of my threads. None of these have been sprayed or had any special treatment. All of the major diseases are strong in the area where I live, and you will only be successful here without spraying if you choose the right cultivars.
• You must cage them to protect from rubbing/browsing, and I highly recommend screen wire to protect from rodents - but that is true of most any good tree that you invest in.
• It is a pain for a beginner to try and figure out all of the variables when planting apples. I started a thread or two in the fruit tree section of this forum to try and help people, because of the things I had to learn the hard way. Drop times vary from location to location, and there is some bad information and recommendations out there that can cause problems down the road. For instance, I planted a few B118 rootstock apples and now many of them are starting to lean badly. However, all of the ones I planted on MM111 have done outstanding, and I wouldn't take anything for those trees.
• Think of choosing apples like you were choosing players on your football team. You would want Tom Brady but you wouldn't want Pee-wee Herman........

..........hippie apples?

bill

 

[cutman]

Sawtooths are my favorite wildlife tree. I agree that Dunstans are overrated (for how much they cost). I’m not brave enough to plant apple trees where I am - too much of a headache.

 

[Native Hunter]

..........hippie apples?

bill

I'm old school and should be saying yuppies (or probably hipsters) instead of hippies. The terminology has a tendency to change over time. However, I'm talking about apples from the Bowels of Disease Hell that are demanded by people like Clark Wilhem Griswold, Jr.'s neighbors (Todd and Margo).

I like growing apples that support life rather than apples that require life support.

 

[j-bird]

I read Don's tuff and sometimes I agree...and sometimes I don't.


I see my apples, chestnuts and sawtooths as supplements to what the deer eat and I use them mostly for hunting season attraction. I don't have enough to feed a deer on a year round basis. And like all things....for best results....you need the right thing, in the right place, at the right time. I also know that many folks (myself included) tend to try to force something every now and then and it tends to not get the best results. I know I have better results with some than others, but in some cases I think it's soil and the like as much as anything else. I won't be removing my sawtooth, apples or chestnuts just because Don says so.... And yes Don is a business man...he will go on and on about how or why his switchgrass is better or his MG or his mineral or his soybeans are the best. I read a lot of his stuff...but I try to see a bigger picture many times...vs the details....

 

[weekender21]

I'm old school and should be saying yuppies (or probably hipsters) instead of hippies. The terminology has a tendency to change over time. However, I'm talking about apples from the Bowles of Disease Hell that are demanded by people like Clark Wilhem Griswold, Jr.'s neighbors (Todd and Margo).

I like growing apples that support life rather than apples that require life support.

And why is the carpet all wet Todd?!


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[buckdeer1]

I wish I could find some acorns or seedling saw tooth that dropped that late.I have alot of sawtooths planted and most produced by age 6 or 7.Trees that grow fast die young and trees that grow slow live long.But my burrs produced before age 10.I like growing oaks since there was no oaks on or around my place.Apples are eaten by deer also on my place but much like pears way more are eaten by coyotes and coons.I just like growing trees and I bet most of you are like that.I too have and apple tree that finally leaned all the way over this year.