As someone who grew up deer hunting with dogs in SE Va and has now transitioned to still huntingSo why I may be sympathetic to dog hunters because I killed my first 30+ deer that way, it is not a humane way to hunt and the conflicts with landowners and other hunters outwieghs any likely solution. My honest opinion is that the end of an era is coming soon.
I read Pinetag and Hoseman....and you. Pinetag and Hoseman, I thought, had reasonable responses. I don't agree with all of their opinions, but I can't accept your assertions and opinions offered as facts.
You write, "I am sympathetic toward dog hunters however, the technology and practices used by those groups have created this conflict and they refused to reasonably address them."
You cannot be sympathetic and critical at the same time. What technology and what practices? Do you not use technology? And you think your practices are far superior? Perhaps they are. Let's make a list and then we can vote.
Your write, "First of all, most dog hunters speak of the tradition, social aspects, comraderie, excitement of dog hunting. All of those aspects are also part of still hunting - they are not unique to just dog hunting. Anyone who has hunted in areas where dog hunting is NOT allowed will talk about the same things that they cherish as well. The "hunt" is almost secondary anywhere you have hunters. So if dog hunting went away, those aspects would not go away. "
Maybe. I do it both ways and find the two experiences much different. I like both. Stand hunting is filled with tedium. Hunting with dogs has the potential to be filled with enthusiasm and action. Just my opinion. But, don't assume for me, I'd be just as happy if one style went away. You say the elements dog hunters enjoy wouldn't go away if hunting with dogs was abolished. The excitement of hunting with dogs would disappear, wouldn't it?
You write, "...would like to also address the right to retrieve laws in Va, some dog hunters obey the laws and follow them as written - no guns, must cross the property on foot. However it only takes one member of a hunt club to carry his gun or to drive through someones farm lot to forever ruin that trust. And that has already happened in many places and that trust wont be rebuilt overnight. Also, one issue that many people don't understand is that if a hunter kills a deer and it runs across the property line, (s)he cannot go retrieve it without permission, however that dog hunter can go get his dog without permission. That promotes trespassing and wasteful hunting."
As long as we're throwing around unsubstantiated assertions, I'll offer my own. You say some dog hunters obey the law. I'd say most all dog hunters obey the law. When you say it only takes one member of a hunt club....you reveal your true nature. You wish to paint the entire population with the faults of one individual and I hear a lot of that in this thread. I would contend that individual will be a thorn in your side regardless of what type of hunting you manage to insert as the best way. If you have evidence -- and not hearsay about which group is more law abiding, I'm listening.
EHD? And dog hunting? Show me the science.
The wounding rate with buckshot is tremendous? Show me the statistics.
We can have a civil debate about how to control the level of deer population, but I doubt use of buckshot and EHD's spread related to hunting dogs are going to be factors. If they are, show me where it's been scientifically elevated to a possible cause of population decline.
You write, "Also, the technology now with tracking collars, GPS collars, bark collars that tell you which dogs are actually chasing deer, handheld radios, etc etc. fail to meet the definition of "FAIR CHASE" in my opinion"
Tracking collars help keep dogs where they belong. Tracking collars get dogs out of the hunting area at the end of the day. You use a tree stand? Unfair advantage. You hunt black powder? Modern equipment? Unfair advantage. You hunt with a compound bow? Unfair advantage.
You write, "Also, there is a safety issue with dog hunting with guns - especially with buckshot here in SE VA. If you look at the hunting accidents each year in Va, the majority of gun related accidents involve dog hunters. The only other accident that comes close to having the poor safety record of dog hunters are hunters who do not use safety harnesses when treestand hunting."
I can't find those numbers. I looked at Appendix 12 in the Virginia Deer Management plan and I don't see any mention of dogs and buckshot as contributory causes of hunting accidents. Some, not all, of those accidents DO happen in that season, but some number happen in archery and some in blackpowder season. Most are the unfortunate result of people who have no business hunting. I guess in your mind people who hunt with dogs lack the necessary character. Google and read "Virginia Hunting Accidents." Then do a fair compilation of what happened.
You write, "So why I may be sympathetic to dog hunters because I killed my first 30+ deer that way, it is not a humane way to hunt and the conflicts with landowners and other hunters outwieghs any likely solution. My honest opinion is that the end of an era is coming>"
We don't need your sympathy. And if you add up the votes, you don't have them. In the end you might get your way as the general attraction of hunting declines.
Regardless of your style of hunting I encourage all to practice sportsmanship. Obey the laws. Be safe. And stop being snarky. Both sides of this debate have developed sharp edges. I'm particularly disappointed by many of you who I respect, being critical of a practice in which you have not been involved and have only the slightest grasp of the facts. If you have research or numbers or solid evidence I'm all ears. But just because some 'elite' hunter gets his or her panties in a knot doesn't make a compelling case.
I know I've not convinced anyone to change their positions, but this certainly has helped me understand the problem.
By the way, I checked and I think there are more square miles in Virginia where dog hunting is prohibited than allowed. I'll have to check my math.
Dogs May Not Be Used For Deer Hunting:
- West of the Blue Ridge.
- East of the Blue Ridge in Bedford, Fairfax, Franklin, Henry, Loudoun, Northampton, and Patrick counties, and Amherst (west of Rt. 29), Campbell (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), Nelson (west of Rt. 151), Pittsylvania (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), and the City of Lynchburg.
- On Sunday while in possession of a weapon.
- When hunting during archery and muzzleloading seasons and on the Youth and Apprentice Deer Hunting Weekend.
- On many military areas. Check individual Post regulations.
- On Amelia, Cavalier, Doe Creek, Featherfin, Mattaponi, Merrimac Farm, Pettigrew, Chester F. Phelps, G. Richard Thompson, and Ware Creek Wildlife Management Areas.
- During the first 14 hunting days of the firearms deer season in Madison and Greene counties.
