TSI?

[OkieKubota]

I got to talking to the wife last night about doing a 20 acre clearcut in our deer hunting area... I have been doing spotty hinge cuts here and there but 1 thing that has always bothered me is we have a beautiful stand of mature white oaks in an area I will never hunt as it is very near our west neighbors house. The woods are very open through there with the mature trees and I figure we have a deer or 2 shot out of that area from the yard of that house every year or so. The area certainly draws deer but the open woods are killing us right there.

My plan is to cut everything along the west side starting about 660 feet into the property and cutting approximately 1320' of ground and 660 ft wide. This area will be open for a time but will fill in within 3-5 years and create a major bedding area that will be very dense and wont be open enough for someone to see far enough to shoot a deer from across the fence. It will provide the one thing our place does not have and that is extremely dense bedding cover. We will still have a very large area of white oaks on our property but they will be more in the center to draw deer from that new bedding into the property itself...

My problem is the State Forester for our area has a huge lack of manpower and says he does not have time to send anyone out but he put me on a waiting list to talk to someone that covers several counties in NE Oklahoma. He also sent me a list of loggers and buyers. I would rather have a forester to help me determine the value of our timber because I think if I go direct to the buyer they are going to lowball me and I won't even know it is happening since I don't really know what oak lumber go's for. I would like to get the best price possible so we can invest that back into our land. I am thinking of planting 10 acres into loblolly pine for a future logging...

Anybody got any suggestions or has anyone else been in this same boat?

 

[swat1018]

Most states have an association of foresters, I'm sure OK does. Consult with a private forester. Is it just TSI, or is there marketable timber?

 

[OkieKubota]

Most states have an association of foresters, I'm sure OK does. Consult with a private forester. Is it just TSI, or is there marketable timber?

It is marketable which is why I want to grade trees to determine value so I don't get lowballed on it...got some white oaks I need gone that will probably make me squirm...

 

[swat1018]

http://www.oklahomaforestry.org/serviceproviders.htm

 

[Osceola]

I know this goes against the conventional wisdom, but I had a timber sale last year in which I did not use a consulting forester. I did have a professionally prepared forest management plan and knew exactly what I wanted to sell. To insure top dollar, I got five different bids. Everything worked out fine and I saved myself two or three thousand dollars by conducting the sale myself.

 

[dogghr]

Good luck with a forester, I couldn't get one to even talk unless it was a 100 ac cut. My 20-30 ac was of no interest. Perhaps because timber is big bussiness here .

 

[OkieKubota]

I know this goes against the conventional wisdom, but I had a timber sale last year in which I did not use a consulting forester. I did have a professionally prepared forest management plan and knew exactly what I wanted to sell. To insure top dollar, I got five different bids. Everything worked out fine and I saved myself two or three thousand dollars by conducting the sale myself.

I only have 1 or at most 2 loggers in the area according to my list because everyone seems to be quitting the logging business...I don't foresee competition helping me out on this deal...I called several that were listed but the list is old and most everyone had retired from it or just quit.

Good luck with a forester, I couldn't get one to even talk unless it was a 100 ac cut. My 20-30 ac was of no interest. Perhaps because timber is big bussiness here .

I could get them to do this I think due to the nature of the type trees to cut - the thing is when a logger comes in somewhere they tend to not only cut the land in contract but all the neighbors jump on bard and they end up being there for weeks...I have seen that scenario a few times...just like having a dozer working on your place - the neighbors stop by and the dozer is there for awhile sometimes...

 

[Osceola]

I only have 1 or at most 2 loggers in the area according to my list because everyone seems to be quitting the logging business...I don't foresee competition helping me out on this deal...I called several that were listed but the list is old and most everyone had retired from it or just quit.

That's a bad sign for timber values in your area. If values are too low to keep loggers in business, you may want to wait a few years until demand increases. In the mean time, you could sacrifice a few along the property line by hinging to create a visual barrier. You could also plant some conifers into the hinged area, although that will take a while to pan out.

 

[OkieKubota]

That's a bad sign for timber values in your area. If values are too low to keep loggers in business, you may want to wait a few years until demand increases. In the mean time, you could sacrifice a few along the property line by hinging to create a visual barrier. You could also plant some conifers into the hinged area, although that will take a while to pan out.

I would like to hinge there but the lady who owns the house is very nice and Her front door is 80 feet from my fence so the hinging will be obviously directed at her household. I have never caught anybody poaching there yet but have heard shots from that area I suspected weren't ata target.

I have hinged about 100 yards back into the woods along that border just so I could walk through in my blaze orange on my way to a stand while hunting without them seeing me from the living room. If I clearcut a large area it will just seem like I did it for the money and not as something personal. I try to be a good neighbor...

I really just hate that a lot of our big bucks are attracted to the big white oaks through that area and it inhibits my hunting...I am not going to kill the trees or cut them unless it is for profit...

 

[Jeff H]

I've sold timber twice. Once on my own and once through the MDOC. When I sold on my own it was pretty time consuming and I met with and interviewed 5 or 6 different loggers. I ended up with what I thought was an honest logger with good references. (honest can be a relative term in the logging industry) I sold it on "halves". He would meet with me once a week or so, show me the receipts from the mill and gave me a check for half. I always wondered how close a relationship he had with the guys from the mill. Did I really see all of the receipts? Maybe, Maybe not. They did a nice job, only cut trees that I selected (over 21"dbh) and were respectful of my property.
The second cut was done by the MDOC. My forester, Francis, has done this job for 25 + years. She knows more about trees than I will ever know. She also has built relationships with logging companies over the years which in my case got me a premium price on my timber. They know she marks good trees and therefore they are able to offer more $$ with confidence. They also got paid a premium by Bruce Hardwood Flooring company for consistently bringing in top quality logs. In the end I got paid more.
I was happy with both cuts but more confident that I didn't get screwed on the one handled by the MDOC.
Good luck to you. I hope it works out to your satisfaction in the end.
One last thought is to leave a select few of those mature white oaks as "mother" trees so that you have some regeneration for years to come.

Jeff

 

[OkieKubota]

I've sold timber twice. Once on my own and once through the MDOC. When I sold on my own it was pretty time consuming and I met with and interviewed 5 or 6 different loggers. I ended up with what I thought was an honest logger with good references. (honest can be a relative term in the logging industry) I sold it on "halves". He would meet with me once a week or so, show me the receipts from the mill and gave me a check for half. I always wondered how close a relationship he had with the guys from the mill. Did I really see all of the receipts? Maybe, Maybe not. They did a nice job, only cut trees that I selected (over 21"dbh) and were respectful of my property.
The second cut was done by the MDOC. My forester, Francis, has done this job for 25 + years. She knows more about trees than I will ever know. She also has built relationships with logging companies over the years which in my case got me a premium price on my timber. They know she marks good trees and therefore they are able to offer more $$ with confidence. They also got paid a premium by Bruce Hardwood Flooring company for consistently bringing in top quality logs. In the end I got paid more.
I was happy with both cuts but more confident that I didn't get screwed on the one handled by the MDOC.
Good luck to you. I hope it works out to your satisfaction in the end.
One last thought is to leave a select few of those mature white oaks as "mother" trees so that you have some regeneration for years to come.

Jeff

That's the thing, I have big white oaks on every area of the property and I don't want them in that area...I have plenty of mother trees and white oak regen is crazy on this property...

 

[Charlieyca]

Your white oaks remind me of I had a cousin who every time he came down fishing always got mad at me for throwing back small, but legal trout and drum when fishing. I had a freezer full of flounder (target species) and didn't have a need for those other fish even though they were excellent table fare. I did not have a need for those fish, even though he was extremely pleased with them. If the oaks dont fit your plan, cut em down. I don't have to tell you to be SURE they dont fit your plan because you know how long it takes for them to grow back.

 

[Charlieyca]

Tomorrow I'm going to the farm and bushhogging down briars and some thickets to plant trees because all I have is overgrown cutover, no browse, and sweetgums surrounded by loblolly pines. I bet very few guys on here are trying to reduce cover on their farms, but thats what I need to do right now.

 

[Weasel]

Another vote for hiring a private forester...

 

[OkieKubota]

The state forester called me a couple days ago and is coming up next week to do a burn plan and timber assessment to help whatever goals I have...I am sure he is gonna cringe when he see's my hinge cuts lol...

 

[Longleaf]

Glad to hear the forester is coming out to take a look and help you. Thinking back on your land tour thread is this your neighbor on the west side that you had issues with early on?

 

[OkieKubota]

Glad to hear the forester is coming out to take a look and help you. Thinking back on your land tour thread is this your neighbor on the west side that you had issues with early on?

Back in the beginning stages of our ownership the west neighbors adult sons had a little issue with having an active landowner (me) as opposed to the previous absentee landowner (my aunt). The land was used by everyone around as "public" hunting and at first I got a little resistance. The son's have moved out now but do come back to "mom's" to hunt and stuff. I have no issue with "mom" whatsoever and we have a cordial relationship in that she waves at me and I wave at her when we meet on the road.

A wide open mature white oak grove next to a house does us no good other than for a sale of lumber as I am not going to sit in treestands where I can see the comings and goings at a house that is not my own and the resultant growth from this cut will make a thick "barrier" that will not only hide the deer much better but will also cut down on "noise" from that house and will give the feel of a property that hunts much bigger than it is along with providing amazing edge, bedding, and food...

Come to think of it I might should do some cutting along the east side too for all my 16 10 acre hunting camp owners and folks along that side...it's amazing a deer makes it out there let alone gets big...

 

[Longleaf]

I hear you. Sounds like you need some of these red cedars I'm trying to take out!