Thought i had while going to sleep last night....

[FarmerD]

This probably is not your case, but just a situation I found. I always have a mix of clovers, to help "extend" my feeding season, from one fall to another (hopefully). My arrowleaf clover was always tall (close to 30") and beautiful, but I never found it to be a heavy reseeder. The rest of the clovers would start off good, but just never seemed to produce, like I thought they would or should, until I realized, that the arrowleaf more than likely, was shading out the rest of the clovers. Were the white clover flowers you're describing, arrowleaf?

Arrowleaf would certainly shade out (6" - 12" tall) Durana, Regal Graze and Patriot and therefore, they would make limited seed. I've since switched away from arrowleaf and have substituted another Ladino in it's place and then have paid particular attention to my seeding ratio and the number of seeds per pound. If you used the same number of pounds per acre of arrowleaf and crimson, you can see how arrowleaf might easily shade out the crimson.

Just a thought.

 

[FL Plotter]

Just a thought, but if your clover and rye really aren't producing any seeds, it could be a sign of a potassium deficiency. Have you fertilized or had a soil test?

Yes and Yes. We're running 6.5 pH and put down tonnage of 6-24-24 on legumes and 34-0-0 top dressing in January to perk up the grains for our February rut.

Rye seed heads are full each year with seed hard enough to bite....just doesn't reseed -- ever (10 years now).

This probably is not your case, but just a situation I found. I always have a mix of clovers, to help "extend" my feeding season, from one fall to another (hopefully). My arrowleaf clover was always tall (close to 30") and beautiful, but I never found it to be a heavy reseeder. The rest of the clovers would start off good, but just never seemed to produce, like I thought they would or should, until I realized, that the arrowleaf more than likely, was shading out the rest of the clovers. Were the white clover flowers you're describing, arrowleaf?

Arrowleaf would certainly shade out (6" - 12" tall) Durana, Regal Graze and Patriot and therefore, they would make limited seed. I've since switched away from arrowleaf and have substituted another Ladino in it's place and then have paid particular attention to my seeding ratio and the number of seeds per pound. If you used the same number of pounds per acre of arrowleaf and crimson, you can see how arrowleaf might easily shade out the crimson.

We had a dry October in 2016, with no rain 4 weeks after planting into semi-dry soil That probably hurt our clover/chicory growth but we still had a decent stand of Regal Graze until the heat got to it in July. The Arrowleaf was not real thick or tall. I didn't see the benefit of it, so I will probably not use it again.

We are trying Kenland red clover this fall as it's supposed to hit its peak later in the summer...we'll mix it with Louisiana S-1 and some New Zealand Ladino (Durana) from Harvey Nail in Poudre Valley. All that will get mixed with lots of WR, some oats, and a bit of wheat. Lastly, we'll add some chicory as that's about the only thing left by August.

 

[Jason Broom]

in all my efforts I am focused on killing existing weeds, stimulating the seed bank and waiting for some emergence of new weeds, killing those etc.

didn't i just kill off a lot of clover?

Your approach is very thorough, but maybe excessive. Instead of trying to "kill" you way through a problem, consider throwing, mowing and growing your way out of it. Unless your weed/grass problem is VERY bad, (maybe indicative of too much nitrogen in the soil) why disc and disc and spray? Another option would be to simply spray, broadcast buckwheat at 50#/acre, then mow the stuff you sprayed down on top of the BW. Six weeks later, broadcast your cereal grain/legume mix into the standing BW and mow that down on top of those seeds. Instead of "killing" the soil three times, and not growing anything for wildlife to eat during those times, you've taken a more natural approach to achieving your end goal.

Working with nature is so much easier than trying to work against it.

 

[David]

Your approach is very thorough, but maybe excessive. Instead of trying to "kill" you way through a problem, consider throwing, mowing and growing your way out of it. Unless your weed/grass problem is VERY bad, (maybe indicative of too much nitrogen in the soil) why disc and disc and spray? Another option would be to simply spray, broadcast buckwheat at 50#/acre, then mow the stuff you sprayed down on top of the BW. Six weeks later, broadcast your cereal grain/legume mix into the standing BW and mow that down on top of those seeds. Instead of "killing" the soil three times, and not growing anything for wildlife to eat during those times, you've taken a more natural approach to achieving your end goal.

Working with nature is so much easier than trying to work against it.

give me a few years, i am working my way towards a plan similar to what you mentioned. between soil temps, selective herbicides, disking, throw and mow, the calendar etc there is a balance that i am slowly trying to jump on board with.