The Right 15

If one can’t or wishes not to timber a property, then an option is to do Ramdom Clusters to promote thickened areas and promote travel of deer in direction you wish. That and sanctuaries one never enters, can compensate somewhat for lack of understory thruout property. Rumor has it their is a thread on this forum by a crazy man of such management.
Another option with the pole saplings and flat land you show in your pic, take a dozer set blade 3 ft high, and push down sections of these pole saplings to open the overstory. Undergrowth will then occur. I’m surprised the forester didn’t just tell you save your money on him as the trees were not logging quality. Good luck.
 
Thank you for the info Gents. My pictures from the stand don’t show the log-able trees very well. The beginning of this thread shows more detail. It isn’t a big job and it’s wet. One guy bid like $900. One guy said he’d take them for free. At least that would get some the heavy lifting done. We’re gonna put it out for bid once more and hope for the best. If that doesn’t work I will likely do cluster areas myself.
 
Regarding your issues with regen, best recommendations are willow cuttings (which you already stated), and pay attention to varieties some are more susceptible to disease and preference by rabbits etc, some defoliate quicker than others depending on your climate, don't just buy a variety because you heard that a well known habitat expert recommends - do some research. Another option you have is looking at hemlocks (black spruce/cedar work as well as long as they are not submerged). Of note the Hemlock in PA and NY are experiencing the wooly adelgid symptom and several other fungal diseases.

So to the point of planting, my recommendation is to be careful anytime you are cutting or removing trees in areas that are wet as the regeneration timing will take double to triple time to return to a state that's beneficial to wildlife, its almost better to cut limited and with the local debris or debris you can pull in elsewhere, use these to create better cover rather than a mass cutting. Assuming you don't have a federal restriction, consider moving dirt to these areas as well, they helps create better drainage options for some species, high spots etc. Some wet food tree/shrub type suggestions for you (deciduous) birch, alder, swamp oak...shrub species Id consider are buttonbush, ninebark, winterberry, cranberry.. I cant think of anymore off hand. But if you need more help just ask and we can boil down the options based on the aspect and available sunlight in the area you have.

Regarding your timber situation my recommendation is again be cautious cutting in wet areas, but those areas that you believe you will achieve benefit from consider doing it yourself. If its beyond what you are willing to take on Im sure you can find someone to remove the trees even if its free (like you explained), or as mentioned a pallet opertaion. 18K is a small job, but you'll find someone, the problem you might experience is that the folks you want to do the job will likely do it a time when it could create more disturbance to your land than its worth, and create a negative impact aesthetically regardless of the written contract or the loggers are willing to do it will be some time down the road and you don't want to wait. Also, to get the best input regarding value of your job, take a look at what value trends are in your state or others. Most states are required to post contract values of timber sales. Also, some states (in NY as an example), publicize values for specific species based on board footage, just to give you a value perspective. Id probably be patient and cut myself, leave some timber lying around or standing dead (wet areas with dead timber are a bird/animal paradise) and don't worry about any value lost as a result because your return in wildlife value will be paramount. Based on the species you have identified Im not sure you'd receive a large return regardless (not saying I have any real idea as Im not sure of the quality, just your count), that would lead me done the road of cutting myself for wildlife benefit or permit someone insured to do so and save yourself the labor.
 
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Regarding your issues with regen, best recommendations are willow cuttings (which you already stated), and pay attention to varieties some are more susceptible to disease and preference by rabbits etc, some defoliate quicker than others depending on your climate, don't just buy a variety because you heard that a well known habitat expert recommends - do some research. Another option you have is looking at hemlocks (black spruce/cedar work as well as long as they are not submerged). Of note the Hemlock in PA and NY are experiencing the wooly adelgid symptom and several other fungal diseases.

So to the point of planting, my recommendation is to be careful anytime you are cutting or removing trees in areas that are wet as the regeneration timing will take double to triple time to return to a state that's beneficial to wildlife, its almost better to cut limited and with the local debris or debris you can pull in elsewhere, use these to create better cover rather than a mass cutting. Assuming you don't have a federal restriction, consider moving dirt to these areas as well, they helps create better drainage options for some species, high spots etc. Some wet food tree/shrub type suggestions for you (deciduous) birch, alder, swamp oak...shrub species Id consider are buttonbush, ninebark, winterberry, cranberry.. I cant think of anymore off hand. But if you need more help just ask and we can boil down the options based on the aspect and available sunlight in the area you have.

Regarding your timber situation my recommendation is again be cautious cutting in wet areas, but those areas that you believe you will achieve benefit from consider doing it yourself. If its beyond what you are willing to take on Im sure you can find someone to remove the trees even if its free (like you explained), or as mentioned a pallet opertaion. 18K is a small job, but you'll find someone, the problem you might experience is that the folks you want to do the job will likely do it a time when it could create more disturbance to your land than its worth, and create a negative impact aesthetically regardless of the written contract or the loggers are willing to do it will be some time down the road and you don't want to wait. Also, to get the best input regarding value of your job, take a look at what value trends are in your state or others. Most states are required to post contract values of timber sales. Also, some states (in NY as an example), publicize values for specific species based on board footage, just to give you a value perspective. Id probably be patient and cut myself, leave some timber lying around or standing dead (wet areas with dead timber are a bird/animal paradise) and don't worry about any value lost as a result because your return in wildlife value will be paramount. Based on the species you have identified Im not sure you'd receive a large return regardless (not saying I have any real idea as Im not sure of the quality, just your count), that would lead me done the road of cutting myself for wildlife benefit or permit someone insured to do so and save yourself the labor.

Great info Jon - I really appreciate it! The original bidder came in again at 1500 so I went with it, considering the time/labor/safety aspects. I hope he will be done before October (he has to be) or he can start again in December. I killed that 1st buck right after my neighbors finished logging, so I am not worried about it. I will be leaving all tops and letting much more sunlight in from the South, which will help with some regen, but I will be planting many other things back there as well. I like the dirt idea, and while it may not be legal, it is worth looking at, considering the loggers will do the opposite. I think alder, red osier dogwood and hybrid or regular willow will be easy additions, and I will try to protect any up and coming oaks I have. Good points on researching the willow species as well! Cant trust every one of those habitat guys :)... I think cedar transplants are an option, but will that lead to cedar apple rust on my fruit trees? I don't have any cedars but I am sure my neighbors have a few...

Rolled down some rye the other day and the clover is coming up through it perfectly! On the other hand, went to spray some Cleth on my old clover plot and I think she is too far gone. I let it go last year to incorporate more native forbs, but didn't selectively spray so it's a mess now. Lot's on the todo list before season! Thanks for reading!
 
Great info Jon - I really appreciate it! The original bidder came in again at 1500 so I went with it, considering the time/labor/safety aspects. I hope he will be done before October (he has to be) or he can start again in December. I killed that 1st buck right after my neighbors finished logging, so I am not worried about it. I will be leaving all tops and letting much more sunlight in from the South, which will help with some regen, but I will be planting many other things back there as well. I like the dirt idea, and while it may not be legal, it is worth looking at, considering the loggers will do the opposite. I think alder, red osier dogwood and hybrid or regular willow will be easy additions, and I will try to protect any up and coming oaks I have. Good points on researching the willow species as well! Cant trust every one of those habitat guys :)... I think cedar transplants are an option, but will that lead to cedar apple rust on my fruit trees? I don't have any cedars but I am sure my neighbors have a few...

Rolled down some rye the other day and the clover is coming up through it perfectly! On the other hand, went to spray some Cleth on my old clover plot and I think she is too far gone. I let it go last year to incorporate more native forbs, but didn't selectively spray so it's a mess now. Lot's on the todo list before season! Thanks for reading!
Good luck with the logging. Logging is the most powerful deer management tool there is. Clover plots can look pretty bad and still be salvageable. But mid and late summer clover spraying is usually not nearly as successful as mid spring spraying. For a late summer clover herbicide treatment to do a good job with all those big tough weeds, and 16 to 24 oz per acre of glyphosate to your clethodim and the results will be much better.
 
Great info Jon - I really appreciate it! The original bidder came in again at 1500 so I went with it, considering the time/labor/safety aspects. I hope he will be done before October (he has to be) or he can start again in December. I killed that 1st buck right after my neighbors finished logging, so I am not worried about it. I will be leaving all tops and letting much more sunlight in from the South, which will help with some regen, but I will be planting many other things back there as well. I like the dirt idea, and while it may not be legal, it is worth looking at, considering the loggers will do the opposite. I think alder, red osier dogwood and hybrid or regular willow will be easy additions, and I will try to protect any up and coming oaks I have. Good points on researching the willow species as well! Cant trust every one of those habitat guys :)... I think cedar transplants are an option, but will that lead to cedar apple rust on my fruit trees? I don't have any cedars but I am sure my neighbors have a few...

Rolled down some rye the other day and the clover is coming up through it perfectly! On the other hand, went to spray some Cleth on my old clover plot and I think she is too far gone. I let it go last year to incorporate more native forbs, but didn't selectively spray so it's a mess now. Lot's on the todo list before season! Thanks for reading!

Awesome man sounds like things are working out.


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