Starting my oak savanna this spring, need advice
- Thread starter Chipdasqrrl
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Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
If you come by again this year at the right time, you can eat some forbidden fruit out of it...
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
I’ve got plans for fruit orchards in the future, but I want to get this savanna done first. I’m more intrigued by creating a park-like savanna than the crops that it will bring with it some day
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Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
I have an oak planting but not an oak savanna. However, I do have a fruit and nut savanna. Persimmons, pears, apples, crabapples, chestnuts, hazelnuts, various shrubs, etc........ Here is what it looks like in the summer. I do maintenance in the spring and then let it go. No fire for me.
Looks beautiful and inspirational. That’s the type of setting I want to find myself in on a cool July evening.
I see some partridge peas... did you plant anything in there or did it all come up on its own?
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Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Chip, I planted lots of it but some is volunteer. I will try to elaborate more on it later today.
oaknut
New Member
Hi Chip,
I am in N. Mich., too, and if I were you I would consider planting some Bur Oak. I love White and Red Oak and I have planted hundreds of each, and I do not think any of them produced acorns in less than 25 years. Many took 30+, and I am still waiting on others.
I planted Bur Oak acorns 15 years ago, and some of those trees started producing last year. Surprised the heck out of me, so I did some reading. Apparently Bur Oak can produce in 10 years under favorable conditions. I just stuck my acorns in the ground in an open meadow in November and forgot about them. 5 or 6 years later I noticed some sticking up above the grass and ferns, so I fenced them, but that's all I did. One of them is 12-15' tall, but most of the rest are from 6-10', and about a third of them produced last year.
I read somewhere that in the northern US there were various types of savannas, but those dominated by Bur Oak were the most extensive.
I grew up with White Oak, and I did I mention that I love them? But I find Bur even more interesting and pictureresque, with it's dark, almost olive-green leaves, it's corky, winged twigs, it's fringed capped acorns, and its large limbs and broad crown. While there are very few, if any, native Bur Oak in my part of Michigan (Otsego County), Bur does grow farther north than any other oak, and it is also one of the most drought & fire resistant.
I just looked at my Bur Oak again and I overestimated how tall they are. I edited my post accordingly.
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Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
Thanks for sharing, you’ve convinced me. I was originally planning on adding some Bur oaks but I decided that there might be a reason that they’re not naturally found around here, so it was risky.
I will certainly order some Bur oaks next year, but It’s a bit too late to add some Bur oaks to this year’s planting list.
I was considering Swamp white oaks as well, since those are supposed to grow around here even though I don’t think they’re here naturally.
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Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks Chip. The Partridge Pea was planted and the Tickseed Sunflower and other forbs you see are native. Most of the trees were planted, but I did have just a few native persimmon trees. I killed the fescue first and then spent a few years spot spraying things I didn't want and helping along things I wanted to see. The blackberry is native, and it can get too thick, but I just manage it and keep it growing in areas where I want it to be.
Alcona county is where I am. I have been growing Burgamble for 15 years or so. They have been producing acorns for 5 years. Working to grow the second generation of them. They hybridize very easily and only 1 of 15 is true to form. Several years, the wildlife got them before I could.
None of the native reds have produced anything for 3 years now. I've planted them before and they grow so very slowly.
I tend to collect acorns from trees that show beneficial attributes and I collected from 2 generic burs last fall. One is at the rest stop on southbound I-75, just south of Pinconning. Lots of acorns on an annual basis. The squirrels were tearing them up as I collected them last year. The tree is near the outdoor vending machines and the "crapper" and that may have something to do with it !!!.. They planted a swamp white there 2 years ago.
The other Bur is near home in the Detroit area and was producing acorns that were near golf ball size with the bur on them.
I would guess that the knarly bark on a mature bur would lend itself to fire resistance.
None of the native reds have produced anything for 3 years now. I've planted them before and they grow so very slowly.
I tend to collect acorns from trees that show beneficial attributes and I collected from 2 generic burs last fall. One is at the rest stop on southbound I-75, just south of Pinconning. Lots of acorns on an annual basis. The squirrels were tearing them up as I collected them last year. The tree is near the outdoor vending machines and the "crapper" and that may have something to do with it
!!!.. They planted a swamp white there 2 years ago. The other Bur is near home in the Detroit area and was producing acorns that were near golf ball size with the bur on them.
I would guess that the knarly bark on a mature bur would lend itself to fire resistance.
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
Alcona county is where I am. I have been growing Burgamble for 15 years or so. They have been producing acorns for 5 years. Working to grow the second generation of them. They hybridize very easily and only 1 of 15 is true to form. Several years, the wildlife got them before I could.
None of the native reds have produced anything for 3 years now. I've planted them before and they grow so very slowly.
I tend to collect acorns from trees that show beneficial attributes and I collected from 2 generic burs last fall. One is at the rest stop on southbound I-75, just south of Pinconning. Lots of acorns on an annual basis. The squirrels were tearing them up as I collected them last year. The tree is near the outdoor vending machines and the "crapper" and that may have something to do with it
The other Bur is near home in the Detroit area and was producing acorns that were near golf ball size with the bur on them.
I would guess that the knarly bark on a mature bur would lend itself to fire resistance.
Thanks for sharing, I might have to raid the tree near Pinconning if I can’t find one somewhere else. I never really thought to check public places for trees to collect from but I’m definitely going to start checking.
I’ll also have to consider the Burgambles, but the darn things are so expensive.
If only tree cages grew on trees...
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Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
I got the 50 white oaks that I ordered planted & caged this past weekend. Many thanks to you guys for talking me into downsizing my # of trees to plant this spring. 50 trees took me roughly 17 hours so 100 would’ve been too much for me to handle.
I’m planting them in a checkerboard pattern. Rows are 20ft apart and I put a tree every 40ft. I put a yellow flag in various spots in place of a tree to come back & plant another type of white oak next year.
Now I have some more white oak acorns sprouted in my garden and I will either try to direct seed them soon or leave them and transplant next spring.
My next big obstacle will be to clean up the debris left by the logging, and clear all of non-oak trees that will try to take over. I think I’m a long way from being able to plant NWSG.
Here’s some pictures (sadly couldn’t get them to upload in high quality)
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I’m planting them in a checkerboard pattern. Rows are 20ft apart and I put a tree every 40ft. I put a yellow flag in various spots in place of a tree to come back & plant another type of white oak next year.
Now I have some more white oak acorns sprouted in my garden and I will either try to direct seed them soon or leave them and transplant next spring.
My next big obstacle will be to clean up the debris left by the logging, and clear all of non-oak trees that will try to take over. I think I’m a long way from being able to plant NWSG.
Here’s some pictures (sadly couldn’t get them to upload in high quality)
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Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
New question... what do you guys think about making narrow cages? Using 2ft of caging per tree would save lots of $. I would imagine it wouldn’t be much different from a tube, as long as it’s tall enough
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
That's going to be awesome in years to come. You have put in a lot of work. I've used as little as 6 ft of fencing protection before, usually 8. Would depend on you deer and bear numbers I would assume if 2 ft would work. My bear seem to push over anything less than 6 ft.
Chip, I'm not an expert; however, it depends on how serious you are about creating something like an oak savanna. A central defining characteristic of an oak savanna is trees exhibit their "natural" shape. What does that mean? Trees grown in the open - with little or no competition from other trees immediately adjacent to them (like you would see in a forest) - usually do not develop the natural pruning of lower limbs like trees competing for sunlight in a forest setting. Trees in an oak savanna frequently display limbs fairly close to the ground. With small diameter cages, you may experiencing browsing of lower limbs by deer when the limbs extend outside the cage. Just food for thought. Good luck with your project.
jteeen
Active Member
I've been planting oaks, persimmons, apples, crab apples, and screening trees for a few years now. I recommend using tree tubes. Almost all trees will do nothing the first year in a tube or not. I caged all apples but one, because I didn't have time to go buy another roll of wire. The apple in the tube is alive and well, I'll fix the branching habit once it comes out of the 4' tube.
Tubes make spraying and maintenance easy. They also prune off the lower limbs. I planted two bare root bur oaks 3 years ago, one is 9', 3" in diameter in my backyard. The one in the wild is also now about 9' tall, but not as heavily branched, and about 1" in diameter. The one in the wild had one or two sprays and was left on it's own. The one in my yard gets fertilizer from my grass.
My 6 year old Shumard, nursery grown red oak made acorns 2 years ago at 6 years. It looks like it will this year as well. So when people say "oaks take 50 years", yes they do in the wild. But feed them a little crack (fertilizer) and keep weeds down and it will be much sooner.
Tubes make spraying and maintenance easy. They also prune off the lower limbs. I planted two bare root bur oaks 3 years ago, one is 9', 3" in diameter in my backyard. The one in the wild is also now about 9' tall, but not as heavily branched, and about 1" in diameter. The one in the wild had one or two sprays and was left on it's own. The one in my yard gets fertilizer from my grass.
My 6 year old Shumard, nursery grown red oak made acorns 2 years ago at 6 years. It looks like it will this year as well. So when people say "oaks take 50 years", yes they do in the wild. But feed them a little crack (fertilizer) and keep weeds down and it will be much sooner.
