Soil report back, next steps?

[Kurt]

The place is out in Ellis County, Kansas. Annual rainfall around 24" with 16" of snow also. Soil report for this river bottom meadow is as follows:

pH 8.0
Buffered pH 7.5
Potassium 167
Phosphorus 5

Looks like I need to bring the phosphorus up. Current test plot is 1.25 acres planted in throw and drag cereal rye, turnips and radishes. Any recommendations for how much phosphorus and when to lay it down is? I want to kill this plot off in mid spring and then do a test plot of Sainfoin and vetch.

If the Sainfoin grows well, I can see doing 5-10 acres of that and the rest in tall native prairie grasses. Headed out to check on the food plot this weekend and will post a few pics if anything came up.

 

[buckhunter10]

Can you post
CEC and base saturations?

I suspect that soil feels tight - high MG.

Phosphorus is almost always in the soil, especially higher CEC soils - we just need to release it via root exudates and all the amazing downstream symbiotic relationships that occur. Adding a little P might not hurt, but I would like to see the CA,MG, K base saturations and balance those out first, then focus on N/P availability, and them micro-nutrients.

 

[Kurt]

The report from K-State just had those components measured. I had mentioned in my request that I wanted to grow Sainfoin and/or Kanlow switchgrass. So maybe those are the most important for those plants? Was hoping to make a run at those in the spring if the soil looks good enough. Had to google what CEC even is? So learned more stuff today.

Also enjoyed the tour of your Ohio Farm. Will visit that thread again soon.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I'm hesitant to comment because Kansas is so far away from PA that many things we'd do in PA might not apply. Does anyone in Kansas grow buckwheat? Buckwheat could be a good answer to raising your phosphorus as it solubilizes and takes up phosphorus that is otherwise unavailable to crops, then releases these nutrients to later crops as the residue breaks down. The roots of the plants produce mild acids that release nutrients from the soil.

 

[Kurt]

Noticed that cereal rye mines nitrogen. Sounds like Buckwheat does that basically with phosphorus. Its on my list of things to try on next years spots. Going to try and keep breaking 1-2 acres per year in to food plots and test sites.

Appreciate the knowledge on the buckwheat, this site has been great for me with gathering info. Thinking some folks are growing buckwheat in KS albeit farther east than me. Hoping to see cereal rye sprouting this weekend.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Noticed that cereal rye mines nitrogen. Sounds like Buckwheat does that basically with phosphorus. Its on my list of things to try on next years spots. Going to try and keep breaking 1-2 acres per year in to food plots and test sites.

Appreciate the knowledge on the buckwheat, this site has been great for me with gathering info. Thinking some folks are growing buckwheat in KS albeit farther east than me. Hoping to see cereal rye sprouting this weekend.

Post some pictures if you can.

 

[KSQ2]

I'm hesitant to comment because Kansas is so far away from PA that many things we'd do in PA might not apply. Does anyone in Kansas grow buckwheat? Buckwheat could be a good answer to raising your phosphorus as it solubilizes and takes up phosphorus that is otherwise unavailable to crops, then releases these nutrients to later crops as the residue breaks down. The roots of the plants produce mild acids that release nutrients from the soil.

We grow buckwheat well in eastern Kansas, but out west is a significantly different climate, I believe they average less than half the rain we get annually. I’ve read how drought tolerant buckwheat is, so maybe it would do ok?

 

[buckhunter10]

Contact Dale Strickler with green cover seed. I believe he is in Kansas and has amazing knowledge of the area and cover crop mixes

Keep in mind that many of the root exudates must communicate with an established fungi network to have the impact we seek, being additional macro nutrient availability - in this case.

Buckwheat for example, actually releases an exudates that allows the mycorrhizal network to release enzymes that solubilize P. I’m sure this isn’t the only plant to have this impact on P but most often used due to the strong correlations that have been realized.

As we increase our fungal networks and diversify planting into them, we can also reduce stress on the plants be it water to insect stress.

I’d ask the lab if they have your base saturations and also what the numbers above are? Are those lbs per acre applicator rates? Etc.

Hope this helps provide a little useful info.

 

[dogghr]

I'd get a more complete soil report. Surprised that is the extent of what was given by a U. Check with your local county Ag office. And they can be good for advice in your area.
I would want to know my CEC and saturations just for my records as time progresses.
I wouldn't worry of too many additives but would just concentrate for now on annual crop rotations of clover, grains and then brassicas for several years. These improve soil tilth and make TnM much more successful when doing no tillage..
Ph 8?? To me that can be as much a problem as my low phs for some plants.. Most deer plots are happiest 6-7. My world is different than KS for sure. Good luck.

 

[buckhunter10]

I'd get a more complete soil report. Surprised that is the extent of what was given by a U. Check with your local county Ag office. And they can be good for advice in your area.
I would want to know my CEC and saturations just for my records as time progresses.
I wouldn't worry of too many additives but would just concentrate for now on annual crop rotations of clover, grains and then brassicas for several years. These improve soil tilth and make TnM much more successful when doing no tillage..
Ph 8?? To me that can be as much a problem as my low phs for some plants.. Most deer plots are happiest 6-7. My world is different than KS for sure. Good luck.

As always, great inputs, sir!

What is TNM?

I would bet that with a PH that high, it is due to high MG levels in the soil. I bet that base saturation is near 20% or higher. I'd love to see the full report.

Also a picture of the soil, would be great!

 

[dogghr]

As always, great inputs, sir!

What is TNM?

I would bet that with a PH that high, it is due to high MG levels in the soil. I bet that base saturation is near 20% or higher. I'd love to see the full report.

Also a picture of the soil, would be great!

Lol it’s a lazy ass way for these old fat fingers to type Throw & Mow/ T&M /TnM. Rumor has it I’m lazy. Good luck on your season Buck. Always enjoy your soil knowledge!!


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[buckhunter10]

Lol it’s a lazy ass way for these old fat fingers to type Throw & Mow/ T&M /TnM. Rumor has it I’m lazy. Good luck on your season Buck. Always enjoy your soil knowledge!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey, you are retired now, you are allowed to be lazy!!

Thank you, sir.

I don't know much. I learn more each day. I actually befriended a very large farmer in GA. He grows some amazing corn crops(and others) on 5 CEC soils. He has been a friend, mentor, and wealth of knowledge. I would be an arrogant jerk, if I didn't highlight that fact.

 

[Kurt]

Just got back from an exceptionally hot few days of muzzleloading. Mosquitos are doing quite well in the river bottom. Its dry but the rain back on Sept 2 got things going. Few pics of cereal rye and brassicas that are growing.

 

[Kurt]

With the drought in KS decieded to do a test plot of sainfoin here at home in arid eastern CO. I had a single bottom plow I was interested in trying out last year so plowed up some smooth brome, let it sit a few months then decided I'd just test sow the sainfoin I had into that. I got germination last summer and on the small plot I put some wire over it. On the 8'x100' plot I just let that grow uncovered. The mule deer are hitting it hard. The plot that is covered is doing quite well.

I may see how the summer goes in KS and do some spraying on a few 1 acre plots and plant them to cereal rye this fall. Then come late spring 2024 try to get some sainfoin going there. The deer seem to absolutely love it.

 

[KSQ2]

With the drought in KS decieded to do a test plot of sainfoin here at home in arid eastern CO. I had a single bottom plow I was interested in trying out last year so plowed up some smooth brome, let it sit a few months then decided I'd just test sow the sainfoin I had into that. I got germination last summer and on the small plot I put some wire over it. On the 8'x100' plot I just let that grow uncovered. The mule deer are hitting it hard. The plot that is covered is doing quite well.

I may see how the summer goes in KS and do some spraying on a few 1 acre plots and plant them to cereal rye this fall. Then come late spring 2024 try to get some sainfoin going there. The deer seem to absolutely love it.

I’ve never heard of the stuff??

 

[Kurt]

If you search Delaney Sainfoin, you should see it. Seems drought tolerant and possibly a good fit for my soils in KS. Was surprised it did well here at home in eastern CO. It is non-invasive so worst case if I attempt a few acres and it doesn't work, it won't be a big deal to transition to something else.

 

[George]

sainfoin, I need some.

G