SHOULD GAME CAMERAS BE ALLOWED FOR HUNTING?

[Mennoniteman]

I'm surprised at the Sunday hunting thing, but I've never dealt with ANY of the issues you cited. Where I've spent my life game basically have Mon through Fri off to get back to normal patterns. We're 98% private land in KS. If you don't want to hear 4 wheelers so that you can have a peaceful afternoon with company you just kick them off your place. A lot of my life has been spent working 6 day weeks. If not for Sundays I'd had to basically give up hunting for a while.

Your stance on guns is admirable in my opinion. Parts of it I agree with. Crazies are going to kill people... because they are crazy. I don't think taking guns out of their hands is the way to stop them. Better culture in our country would help. Better mental health care would help. But the way I see it is that evil people hell bent on damage will find a way. Lots of places in this world that don't have many gun but are still very dangerous. Most would find a way. Mass knifings have happened, bombs happen, driving through crowds happens, lethal gas can happen, etc. So in my opinion until the evil can be cured or weeded out, they will continue to cause damage any way they can. Secondly is the constitution. The 2A isn't here for hunters, it was written for different reasons. I believe the founding fathers got it right and tread very lightly when considering a change (which I've put consideration into many times). Anyway, I don't hate your stance... I just don't look at the problem the same.

Thanks for the honest answer to my question. Love it!

PA allowing Sunday hunting isn't a hardship for me, I can still choose for myself, so I'm not complaining. I do know that more PA land closed to hunting because of it.
You bring out some very valid points on gun control, if guns were banned, fertilizer and diesel fuel would have to be banned next, and kitchen knives third. Maybe we need smarter minds coming up with new and creative ways to combat mass shootings; in Israel if a teen kills people they evict the parents and bulldoze their house, seems harsh, but it's been an effective deterrent for them.

 

[catscratch]

PA allowing Sunday hunting isn't a hardship for me, I can still choose for myself, so I'm not complaining. I do know that more PA land closed to hunting because of it.
You bring out some very valid points on gun control, if guns were banned, fertilizer and diesel fuel would have to be banned next, and kitchen knives third. Maybe we need smarter minds coming up with new and creative ways to combat mass shootings; in Israel if a teen kills people they evict the parents and bulldoze their house, seems harsh, but it's been an effective deterrent for them.

PA closed land when it opened up Sunday hunting? Or is it private land that people stopped allowing access to for hunting because PA opened it up? I'll be honest, I was pretty old when I first heard that some places didn't allow hunting on Sundays. It blew my mind! I had no clue that was a thing. It isn't based on biology, and it goes against Freedom of Religion and separation of Church and State. I'd blow a gasket if KS tried to implement the rule.


I'm truly perplexed about the gun thing. We have Politians and celebrities advocating and calling for political violence. There were people who celebrated or justified Charlie Kirk's assassination. People said the shooter at Trump's rally should have been a better shot. These are supposed to be the best and brightest and they are endorsing violence. It's no wonder the most mentally unhealthy among us don't know what to do with their feelings.

 

[Mennoniteman]

PA closed land when it opened up Sunday hunting? Or is it private land that people stopped allowing access to for hunting because PA opened it up? I'll be honest, I was pretty old when I first heard that some places didn't allow hunting on Sundays. It blew my mind! I had no clue that was a thing. It isn't based on biology, and it goes against Freedom of Religion and separation of Church and State. I'd blow a gasket if KS tried to implement the rule.


I'm truly perplexed about the gun thing. We have Politians and celebrities advocating and calling for political violence. There were people who celebrated or justified Charlie Kirk's assassination. People said the shooter at Trump's rally should have been a better shot. These are supposed to be the best and brightest and they are endorsing violence. It's no wonder the most mentally unhealthy among us don't know what to do with their feelings.

Let me explain a little better; In KS, Sunday hunting has been a part of your culture, and is still the same, whereas, in PA no Sunday hunting was a part of our culture, and always seemed normal, but now a part of our culture has changed.
Allowing Sunday hunting was not a big difference for townspeople who make up the biggest block of PA voters, and it's also still a choice for recreational land owners so no difference there, but it's something that is pretty big in the lives of farmers, a minority group without many votes. In PA no Sunday hunting was deeply ingrained in the farming community, and most opposed it, with the PA Farm Bureau leading the charge for a long time. Then in 2023, the PA Farm Bureau suddenly reversed their longstanding opposition to the practice, conditional to promised enhanced trespassing protections from the lawmakers pushing the bill, which left a lot of PA farmers feeling that the politicians and the Farm Bureau sold them out one more time.
Farmers are a different breed of people that most of the general public doesn't understand very well, and often doesn't care much about either, (because their food comes from the store), a fact that farmers are very much aware of. Again, Sunday hunting is really not a choice for farmers, as in one way or another, it's going to bring more hassle to their lives, so, having lost the fight and with the new law in effect, a fair portion of remaining open farms have changed their stance on allowing hunters on their property, either posting or, leasing for money to be able to control access better. Most this farmland was open to hunting when I was a boy 50 years ago, but PA hunters have now lost most of their free farmland hunting acres, with the Sunday hunting being the last straw in a long tug of war between the state and the farmers.
PA has 1.5 million acres of state game lands and 2.2 acres of state forest plus a lot of other county and watershed lands that are all public hunting, but farmland still dwarfs those numbers at 7.3 million acres; 4.4 million acres of cropland, almost a million acres of pastureland, and 1.5 million acres of woodland within its farms, rich croplands which have more game per acre than most public land, which is often sparse and rocky mountain ground.
Hunters unfortunately are some of the ones who often don't understand farmers, a hardworking people who face pressures and issues from a dozen different directions every day and who see most hunters as greedy opportunists. Hunters now think they're ahead with seven days a week to pursue their sport, but by not respecting the wishes of the biggest group of landowners they continue to have fewer acres and a lower quality of hunting available, as ever more of the most valuable resource that hunters have is lost to the next generation.

 

[catscratch]

Let me explain a little better; In KS, Sunday hunting has been a part of your culture, and is still the same, whereas, in PA no Sunday hunting was a part of our culture, and always seemed normal, but now a part of our culture has changed.
Allowing Sunday hunting was not a big difference for townspeople who make up the biggest block of PA voters, and it's also still a choice for recreational land owners so no difference there, but it's something that is pretty big in the lives of farmers, a minority group without many votes. In PA no Sunday hunting was deeply ingrained in the farming community, and most opposed it, with the PA Farm Bureau leading the charge for a long time. Then in 2023, the PA Farm Bureau suddenly reversed their longstanding opposition to the practice, conditional to promised enhanced trespassing protections from the lawmakers pushing the bill, which left a lot of PA farmers feeling that the politicians and the Farm Bureau sold them out one more time.
Farmers are a different breed of people that most of the general public doesn't understand very well, and often doesn't care much about either, (because their food comes from the store), a fact that farmers are very much aware of. Again, Sunday hunting is really not a choice for farmers, as in one way or another, it's going to bring more hassle to their lives, so, having lost the fight and with the new law in effect, a fair portion of remaining open farms have changed their stance on allowing hunters on their property, either posting or, leasing for money to be able to control access better. Most this farmland was open to hunting when I was a boy 50 years ago, but PA hunters have now lost most of their free farmland hunting acres, with the Sunday hunting being the last straw in a long tug of war between the state and the farmers.
PA has 1.5 million acres of state game lands and 2.2 acres of state forest plus a lot of other county and watershed lands that are all public hunting, but farmland still dwarfs those numbers at 7.3 million acres; 4.4 million acres of cropland, almost a million acres of pastureland, and 1.5 million acres of woodland within its farms, rich croplands which have more game per acre than most public land, which is often sparse and rocky mountain ground.
Hunters unfortunately are some of the ones who often don't understand farmers, a hardworking people who face pressures and issues from a dozen different directions every day and who see most hunters as greedy opportunists. Hunters now think they're ahead with seven days a week to pursue their sport, but by not respecting the wishes of the biggest group of landowners they continue to have fewer acres and a lower quality of hunting available, as ever more of the most valuable resource that hunters have is lost to the next generation.

Hmmm, you put it that way and it makes a ton of sense to me! I almost always side with farmers and ranchers. Salt of the earth usually, and have known their fair share of work in life. If they feel like they're getting screwed by the legislators, and taken advantage of by hunters... then they all means I can see why they'd not want that change. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, you've given me a point of view that I hadn't reached on my own.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Hmmm, you put it that way and it makes a ton of sense to me! I almost always side with farmers and ranchers. Salt of the earth usually, and have known their fair share of work in life. If they feel like they're getting screwed by the legislators, and taken advantage of by hunters... then they all means I can see why they'd not want that change. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, you've given me a point of view that I hadn't reached on my own.

And you have given me a point of view on semi automatic rifles that makes sense, that taking AR-15's out of the picture will probably not solve anything.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Let me explain a little better; In KS, Sunday hunting has been a part of your culture, and is still the same, whereas, in PA no Sunday hunting was a part of our culture, and always seemed normal, but now a part of our culture has changed.
Allowing Sunday hunting was not a big difference for townspeople who make up the biggest block of PA voters, and it's also still a choice for recreational land owners so no difference there, but it's something that is pretty big in the lives of farmers, a minority group without many votes. In PA no Sunday hunting was deeply ingrained in the farming community, and most opposed it, with the PA Farm Bureau leading the charge for a long time. Then in 2023, the PA Farm Bureau suddenly reversed their longstanding opposition to the practice, conditional to promised enhanced trespassing protections from the lawmakers pushing the bill, which left a lot of PA farmers feeling that the politicians and the Farm Bureau sold them out one more time.
Farmers are a different breed of people that most of the general public doesn't understand very well, and often doesn't care much about either, (because their food comes from the store), a fact that farmers are very much aware of. Again, Sunday hunting is really not a choice for farmers, as in one way or another, it's going to bring more hassle to their lives, so, having lost the fight and with the new law in effect, a fair portion of remaining open farms have changed their stance on allowing hunters on their property, either posting or, leasing for money to be able to control access better. Most this farmland was open to hunting when I was a boy 50 years ago, but PA hunters have now lost most of their free farmland hunting acres, with the Sunday hunting being the last straw in a long tug of war between the state and the farmers.
PA has 1.5 million acres of state game lands and 2.2 acres of state forest plus a lot of other county and watershed lands that are all public hunting, but farmland still dwarfs those numbers at 7.3 million acres; 4.4 million acres of cropland, almost a million acres of pastureland, and 1.5 million acres of woodland within its farms, rich croplands which have more game per acre than most public land, which is often sparse and rocky mountain ground.
Hunters unfortunately are some of the ones who often don't understand farmers, a hardworking people who face pressures and issues from a dozen different directions every day and who see most hunters as greedy opportunists. Hunters now think they're ahead with seven days a week to pursue their sport, but by not respecting the wishes of the biggest group of landowners they continue to have fewer acres and a lower quality of hunting available, as ever more of the most valuable resource that hunters have is lost to the next generation.

I don't know that I completely understand or believe this idea. If farmers allow hunting, what is the difference that Sunday makes? I could see unposted ground getting more traffic. I haven't seen any stats on how much farm land was posted vs not. I would guess from a liability standpoint, there arent many unposted farms anymore. If they are posted, but allow hunting, what really changes? More door knocks and phone calls? That's annoying, sure. I know farmers want to shoot more deer. It doesn't seem fair to me that they get red tags and the rest of the public loses out. Some sort of cooperation would benefit both parties. It's a situation where some folks won't be happy, no matter the choice.

 

[yoderjac]

They eased in Sunday hunting here in VA a few years back. It started with private land with permission of the land owner. It now covers some state and federal lands. I haven't seen much evidence that it has had much biological impact. There didn't seem to be much opposition from the farmers I know down here. No Sunday hunting comes from the old "blue laws". Personally, I would have preferred to keep no Sunday hunting, but now that it is here, I sometimes hunt on Sunday. Here, dog hunting is the big dispute between the dog hunting community and property owners.

 

[Mountain Man]

Dry that's a pretty lame assessment. It's not fair chase and you can't defend it. It needs to be outlawed 30 days prior to the end of the season. That's why it is a sport and actually one being ruined by trail cams. I saw a post of a small buck a guy shot with the same buck two nights at the same time in a row at a bait pile and third night low and behold he shot it at the same time and bait pile. . Wtf is fair chase about it? That being said ffs and side imaging in fishing needs to go as well. Basically it's the llaziness of today's society, instant gratification. Why scout when you can cheat? Ever think about how anti hunters feel about it when your in the 20 % Brackett.

 

[Drycreek]

Jack, I do have night vision, my buddy and I each bought one to hog hunt with. A little story about ethics, which seems to be a subject that’s being discussed lately. I don’t tell this story to put myself above anybody else, but to illustrate exactly what ethics are.

So, my buddy and myself are sitting in a two man box blind over a plot of Whitetail Institute clover. It is dark, but we have these NV scopes with which to bring hell down on the swine. My buddy has a piece-of- sh*t NV monocular to scan with, but it’s all we can afford. It’s good to about 75 yards, (good being charitable). He says I see a deer and I think it’s a buck. So I ease my heavy rifle with this humongous NV scope up and scan the plot. I see two bucks and both of them are chomping clover. One of them is a buck I have several pictures of but only one sighting before the season opened. I put those red crosshairs firmly on his high shoulder, careful that the safety was on and my finger was nowhere near the trigger. He was a very nice ten point, probably in the high 130s, and would have made a beautiful shoulder mount. I was on my own property, neighbors were probably asleep, we have been shooting hogs at night all year, and I’m perfectly capable of processing deer myself. It would have been easy to down that buck that was only 60/70 yards away. Ethics prevented that happening.

 

[Drycreek]

Yoder fact is I'm not afraid to stir the pot I actually enjoy it.

Do tell !

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, I do have night vision, my buddy and I each bought one to hog hunt with. A little story about ethics, which seems to be a subject that’s being discussed lately. I don’t tell this story to put myself above anybody else, but to illustrate exactly what ethics are.

So, my buddy and myself are sitting in a two man box blind over a plot of Whitetail Institute clover. It is dark, but we have these NV scopes with which to bring hell down on the swine. My buddy has a piece-of- sh*t NV monocular to scan with, but it’s all we can afford. It’s good to about 75 yards, (good being charitable). He says I see a deer and I think it’s a buck. So I ease my heavy rifle with this humongous NV scope up and scan the plot. I see two bucks and both of them are chomping clover. One of them is a buck I have several pictures of but only one sighting before the season opened. I put those red crosshairs firmly on his high shoulder, careful that the safety was on and my finger was nowhere near the trigger. He was a very nice ten point, probably in the high 130s, and would have made a beautiful shoulder mount. I was on my own property, neighbors were probably asleep, we have been shooting hogs at night all year, and I’m perfectly capable of processing deer myself. It would have been easy to down that buck that was only 60/70 yards away. Ethics prevented that happening.

I'm sure you knew well before the hunt that you would not shoot a deer at night. That's one of the thing we try to teach. Don't wait for temptation do decided where to draw your ethical line. Think through different scenarios and know before you go to the field and know what you will do. It is much easier to draw ethical lines in the calm than in the heat of the moment.

 

[Drycreek]

I'm sure you knew well before the hunt that you would not shoot a deer at night. That's one of the thing we try to teach. Don't wait for temptation do decided where to draw your ethical line. Think through different scenarios and know before you go to the field and know what you will do. It is much easier to draw ethical lines in the calm than in the heat of the moment.

Sure I did. Unfortunately, it wasn’t always that way. When I was a kid, limits on ducks or doves didn’t mean anything to me. We had no deer in East Texas to speak of then. At some point I got educated, whether reading or just thinking I can’t say. It just happened. I can’t even say at what age I finally figured out that poaching or overshooting your legal limit was stealing from ethical hunters in a way. The only citation I ever had from a warden was a lack of boat cushion flotation devices and that was just a mistake on my part, leaving them at home in the garage as my son and I left in the wee hours to be on the river at daylight. I discovered that I didn’t have them as we were launching the boat but didn’t want to disappoint him and made the decision to fish anyway. I got a ticket, but the warden was sympathetic enough to let us continue fishing and we loaded an ice chest with white bass. My boy had a helluva time ! In those days I worked six and seven days a week and we didn’t get to fish or hunt much. It was worth the ticket.

 

[yoderjac]

Sure I did. Unfortunately, it wasn’t always that way. When I was a kid, limits on ducks or doves didn’t mean anything to me. We had no deer in East Texas to speak of then. At some point I got educated, whether reading or just thinking I can’t say. It just happened. I can’t even say at what age I finally figured out that poaching or overshooting your legal limit was stealing from ethical hunters in a way. The only citation I ever had from a warden was a lack of boat cushion flotation devices and that was just a mistake on my part, leaving them at home in the garage as my son and I left in the wee hours to be on the river at daylight. I discovered that I didn’t have them as we were launching the boat but didn’t want to disappoint him and made the decision to fish anyway. I got a ticket, but the warden was sympathetic enough to let us continue fishing and we loaded an ice chest with white bass. My boy had a helluva time ! In those days I worked six and seven days a week and we didn’t get to fish or hunt much. It was worth the ticket.

More great examples! Ethics develop over time. Parents, church, peers, all influence that development. Eventually, for most of us it works out pretty well, but not for everyone.