lakngolf
Well-Known Member
I am always amazed as how different the trees are, planted on same date but growth so varied due to soil and location
Sawtooth Oaks
- Thread starter Fish
- Start date
SetxHunter
Member
Kurt
Active Member
Bumping up an old thread but great thread. I'm working at getting a few of these established on what may be their extreme western edge. At least the farthest west without constant attention during establishment. Here is hoping for time to water and some help from rain this year. Any updated pics from the guys a few years back would be neat to see sometime.
catscratch
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see some pics from guys. Kind of curious as to how j-birds are doing...
I have another flat of them started in the classroom (as well as some Dunstan Chestnuts and Chinkapin oaks).
I have another flat of them started in the classroom (as well as some Dunstan Chestnuts and Chinkapin oaks).
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
For Catscratch,
Would i be correct to say you have chinkapin oak on your place? Those are gonna be on my list for the coming fall to acquire some nuts so I can grow a 2 or 3 rootmaker flats. I would be able to trade you some DCO is you would use them.
Great photos you posted.
Thanks
Wayne
Would i be correct to say you have chinkapin oak on your place? Those are gonna be on my list for the coming fall to acquire some nuts so I can grow a 2 or 3 rootmaker flats. I would be able to trade you some DCO is you would use them.
Great photos you posted.
Thanks
Wayne
catscratch
Well-Known Member
You can have as many as you want! Yes, they are native on my place (as well as DCO). No need to trade, you can just have whatever you need. I'll need a reminder though. Next fall is a long time from now!
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
I was a little late getting on the Sawtooth bandwagon, but I'm a full pledged junkie now..... They grow fast in my acidic soil.
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Hey Native... I've damn near the same watch!
My sawtooths aren't as far along as yours are though.
My sawtooths aren't as far along as yours are though.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
They take a licking but keep on ticking - the trees do too.
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Lol, I've been wearing Timex Ironmen watches for decades. As a runner they were perfect for keeping splits. They certainly do keep on ticking.
I will have to take a photo of our sawtooth oaks next time I am down at the farm...getting pretty big now...
So are mine
I planted them nine years ago and the had tons of early blooms/tassles
We had a typical Texas "late freeze" that may have done them in for production this year
bill
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Deer say sawtooth rock. Lately, you can find all type of post trashing the sawtooth as an invasive. When you look the sawtooth up on the internet it has been in our country over 100 years per the internet.
In moments of weakness, I have tried to share a different point of view with some of those posters. A 100% total waste of effort and time. Those people want a pristine forest. On occasion I have been given the third degree because I grow Chinese chestnuts. I have never seen an American Chestnut in the wild which tells me how destructive the blight was. I wish the American Chestnut tree was still "King of the Eastern Forrest" but that ship sailed about 3 generations ago.
As for me, I plant for the whitetail deer and turkeys to a small extent. I know my deer are the only audience that matters to me. If I am planting on my land, then it is none of their business what's what. I am working hard to keep these plantings from dying but they act like the earth and countryside are being destroyed and taken over by the invasive sawtooth. I don't consider sawtooth to be an invasive species.
I am thankful for the habitat posters on the old QDMA forum that influenced me to grow sawtooth oak. My deer, they are thankful too.
wbpdeer
In moments of weakness, I have tried to share a different point of view with some of those posters. A 100% total waste of effort and time. Those people want a pristine forest. On occasion I have been given the third degree because I grow Chinese chestnuts. I have never seen an American Chestnut in the wild which tells me how destructive the blight was. I wish the American Chestnut tree was still "King of the Eastern Forrest" but that ship sailed about 3 generations ago.
As for me, I plant for the whitetail deer and turkeys to a small extent. I know my deer are the only audience that matters to me. If I am planting on my land, then it is none of their business what's what. I am working hard to keep these plantings from dying but they act like the earth and countryside are being destroyed and taken over by the invasive sawtooth. I don't consider sawtooth to be an invasive species.
I am thankful for the habitat posters on the old QDMA forum that influenced me to grow sawtooth oak. My deer, they are thankful too.
wbpdeer
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Kurt
Active Member
TreeDaddy, What is your annual rainfall in your area? I'm trying to get some started. Normal for us is 24" but last year it was only 12". Hoping if they get established they could survive there. Thank you
35 to 45 in rain/year
Not sure how sawtooth can be classified as invasive
I wish they would invade east texas
bill
bravesfan21
New Member
Is there something a person can do when growing acorns, to help make the acorns produce faster or is it just up to the nut?
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I think there are a couple factors involved. A tree starts out in a vegetative state and needs to get to a certain point in development before it transitions to a fruiting stage. Some species transition much faster than others. Given a particular species like Sawtooth, one can probably cut some time off, but not much. If you grow trees in a root pruning container system, it does accelerate the growth. The first technique is culling. When you start nuts in 18s in volume, you will quickly learn that individual nuts produce trees that grow at very different rates. By selecting the best growing trees when you transplant to 1 gal RB2s, you've already excluded a lot of poor trees. You can repeat this culling when you transplant to 3 gal RB2s.
In general, a root pruning container system will significantly accelerate growth. When young, a tree seedling expends a lot of energy putting down a deep tap root to ensure it has access to water to survive. By air pruning that tap root at 4" and providing the needed water and nutrients in containers, the tree is forced to produce many lateral roots in the 4" above the prune. The more fine root tips, the more efficiently the tree can uptake water an nutrients. Some of the energy that otherwise would have been put in a deep tap root, becomes available for increased top growth.
While this is a sawtooth thread, this applies to trees in general. While trees may do really well when cared for in containers, keep in mind that eventually they need to go to the field. So, selecting a tree species that is a good fit for your region is an important factor. Those doing "zone stretching" often find these trees survive but don't flourish because of the added stress of the environment. This too can slow the transition to a fruiting state. Also consider selecting a species that naturally produce nuts/fruit sooner. DCOs and ACs can produce nuts in just a couple years. Sawtooth that a bit longer, and many of our native oaks can take 20 years.
Anything we do that reduces stress on a tree and speeds growth generally advances them to a fruiting state....but....
Once a tree is mature enough (depending on the species), some may not transition into a fruiting stage. Stress can then have a counter impact. Stress can actually cause a tree to think it may die which can cause a mature tree to produce a bounty of fruit to spread it's genes before it dies.
Trees are complex and wonderful things!
Source ....
https://www.alabamawildlife.org › File › sawtoo...
CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF SAWTOOTH OAKS COMPARED WITH NATIVE SPECIES
Species Protein Fat N-Free Crude Ash Moisture
Sawtooth oak1 2.69 1.68 47.96 4.02 1.42 42.23
Sawtooth oak2 3.63 1.94 47.3 7.11 1.74 38.38
Sawtooth oak3 3 1.4 48.2 6.5 1.4 45.4
White oak4 6.3 5.6 69.72 15.54 2.72
Post oak 5.94 6.33 70.01 14.92 2.54
Live oak 6.26 6.61 70.2 14.06 2.92
Southern red oak 5.41 14.85 59.03 18 2.69
Bluejack oak 6.81 20.46 55.2 15.24 2.18
Blackjack oak 6.56 15.5 55.31 0.25 2.38
Water oak 4.46 23.18 55.33 15.45 1.57
Willow oak 4.74 20.51 55.08 17.75 3.88
Sawtooth oaks are popular with deer because they drop early (before most other mast) and they are plentiful. From a deer-health perspective, they are nor nearly as nutritious as most other mast. Especially with regard to fat & protein and carbs that are critical for winter.
Google sawtooth oaks and invasive species; you'll find several southeastern states and folks in the eastern 25% of this country becoming leery about the potential for unfair competition to many native forest species because of the sawtooth growth habits many habitat folks like (rapid growth). I guess a couple for diversity might be OK if watched pretty closely for the prevention of spread. They are not for me; because, with the hybrid vigor of hybrid white oak trees, I'll only be a few years behind in fruiting (when the oak trees receive appropriate care) and my oak trees will be stronger trees better able to withstand the elements. Just saying ...
If you want a tree that can fruit every year, drops a little-to-much later than a sawtooth and; most importantly has high nutritional value for deer, get some chestnuts.
Another person with a preference for chestnuts; you suppose Wallace might be a "little" biased? .... https://greatdaysoutdoors.com/sawtooth-oak-tree/
SAWTOOTH OAK—
Alabama Wildlife Federationhttps://www.alabamawildlife.org › File › sawtoo...
CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF SAWTOOTH OAKS COMPARED WITH NATIVE SPECIES
Species Protein Fat N-Free Crude Ash Moisture
Sawtooth oak1 2.69 1.68 47.96 4.02 1.42 42.23
Sawtooth oak2 3.63 1.94 47.3 7.11 1.74 38.38
Sawtooth oak3 3 1.4 48.2 6.5 1.4 45.4
White oak4 6.3 5.6 69.72 15.54 2.72
Post oak 5.94 6.33 70.01 14.92 2.54
Live oak 6.26 6.61 70.2 14.06 2.92
Southern red oak 5.41 14.85 59.03 18 2.69
Bluejack oak 6.81 20.46 55.2 15.24 2.18
Blackjack oak 6.56 15.5 55.31 0.25 2.38
Water oak 4.46 23.18 55.33 15.45 1.57
Willow oak 4.74 20.51 55.08 17.75 3.88
Sawtooth oaks are popular with deer because they drop early (before most other mast) and they are plentiful. From a deer-health perspective, they are nor nearly as nutritious as most other mast. Especially with regard to fat & protein and carbs that are critical for winter.
Google sawtooth oaks and invasive species; you'll find several southeastern states and folks in the eastern 25% of this country becoming leery about the potential for unfair competition to many native forest species because of the sawtooth growth habits many habitat folks like (rapid growth). I guess a couple for diversity might be OK if watched pretty closely for the prevention of spread. They are not for me; because, with the hybrid vigor of hybrid white oak trees, I'll only be a few years behind in fruiting (when the oak trees receive appropriate care) and my oak trees will be stronger trees better able to withstand the elements. Just saying ...
If you want a tree that can fruit every year, drops a little-to-much later than a sawtooth and; most importantly has high nutritional value for deer, get some chestnuts.
Another person with a preference for chestnuts; you suppose Wallace might be a "little" biased? .... https://greatdaysoutdoors.com/sawtooth-oak-tree/
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