Sawtooth Oaks

[Native Hunter]

As with many things, there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding sawtooth oaks. Here are some facts that I know from personal experience rather than quoting a bunch of stuff off the internet.

* Not all sawtooth oaks drop before chestnuts. In fact, the ones I have start dropping just about the time chestnuts are finishing their drop.
* If the naysayers can't even tell the truth about the drop times, how can we trust the rest of the information they give us?
* My sawtooths are dropping right at the prime time (for me) of our hunting season.
* I only have about 15 or 20, so I doubt I can ruin the ecosystem - and I am not seeing them spread.
* My sawtooths are minor in number compared to the other native oaks on the property. But, the draw at the right time is not minor.
* I cannot prove or disprove the nutritional information, but I would bet it is biased in some way.
* Even if it isn't biased, the number eaten are a drop in the bucket compared to all the other acorns and other quality food I have.
* Anyone who has seen my deer pictures know that the deer aren't starving, so I'm not on any nutritional guilt trip about sawtooths.
* Apples and pears aren't the greatest for nutrition either, but I don't see anyone crying about planting them.

Would I plant nothing but Sawtooths? Absolutely not. They are just another tool just like a lot of things we use. Whatever happened to just using common sense..............

 

[cutman]

I’m with Native on this. I’ve never seen a sawtooth that wasn’t planted by a person. What I have seen, however, is deer race to a dropping sawtooth so that they can get the acorns before their friends do.

Great wildlife trees.

 

[Fishman]

SAWTOOTH OAK—
Alabama Wildlife Federation
https://www.alabamawildlife.org › File › sawtoo...

CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF SAWTOOTH OAKS COMPARED WITH NATIVE SPECIES

I greatly respect your opinion on many things tree related, but the link you provided has several factual errors in it. The authors of the article were lazy and the authors they cite for the analysis did not know what they were doing when they compared the acorn nutritional content of different species from different studies. The short answer is the original paper didn't compare apples to apples. The long answer is below.

The two authors (Jenkins and Mitchell) of the paper “Sawtooth Oaks - A Fallacy of Epic Proportions” that you linked cite Sullivan and Young (1961) as the source for the acorn data in their table, but what they fail to do is check the original Goodrum (1959) that Sullivan and Young (1961) use as the basis for their table. Jenkins and Mitchell failed to read or did not comprehend the Goodrum paper and take what it states into consideration when making their comparisons. The Goodrum paper states “The amount of moisture in a food item directly affects its nutrient content. To determine the nutritive value of a food, it is first necessary to determine the percent of water, and therefore dry matter. Furthermore, it is common practice to base diet determinations on a dry matter or air-dry basis which is often standardized at the 15 percent moisture level.” You cannot compare the analysis of sawtooth acorns to those native oaks as presented in the table because Sullivan and Young (1961) compare acorn data from three different studies that did not standardize their sampling procedures. The acorns were not analyzed under the same conditions. Sullivan and Young (1961) made a mistake and this mistake was compounded by Jenkins and Mitchell when they failed to check the original Goodrum (1959) data source. Jenkins and Mitchell are wrong when they state “The analysis indicated that sawtooth acorns were consistently much lower in protein, fat, and nitrogen-free extract (soluble carbohydrates) – components of acorns that are important to deer, squirrels, and other wildlife – than the eight native species (See Table).” You are not making a valid comparison since no one knows what the moisture content was for all of the acorn samples.

Below is a table from Short (1976) where all of the acorns were analyzed at the same time under the same conditions. It shows that sawtooth acorns are not less nutritious than native oak acorns.

 

[Oakseeds]

.NH ... y'all have -- arguably - some of the finest sawtooth oak trees ever to root in KY. In relation to my earlier post, and internet sites, I'm one who readily accepts the shared agreement among professionals posting on quality sites. The first item I share doesn't necessarily meet that criteria; however, it presents diuscussion among some KY fellers regarding sawtooth oaks. In 2013, the issues of drop time, nutritional value, and invasiveness were mentioned on this site (it isn't something new) ... https://www.kentuckyhunting.net/threads/sawtooth-oak-question.135350/

A nice transition is provided by an item on the Nativ Nursery site ... "“Customers often ask us… “How come you call yourselves the Nativ Nursery,
and offer the non-native sawtooth oak?” Our answer is… “It’s native somewhere.” Sawtooth oak has been an American citizen for quite some time, and proves itself a winner in our book as the first to provide hard mast for all walks of wildlife. Acorns rain down annually, at a critical time when other oaks haven’t even thought of shedding. Sawtooths are so productive that we can fill the back of a pickup with acorns from three trees!" https://www.nativnurseries.com/products/sawtooth-oak-12-pack-with-free-shipping-quercus-accutisima

Another well known nursery says ... Sawtooth oak - I’m hesitant to add this species to the list as it does have merit, mainly because it produces acorns at a young age and the acorns drop earlier in the year- before the native oaks drop theirs.
https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/conservation/overrated-wildlife-trees

Chestnut Hill Nursery 2023 …. “Sawtooth Oak is a rapid-growing tree." "Bears up to 100 lbs/tree at maturity. It has been widely planted because of its prolific and early bearing for an oak tree. 2015"

https://bpfamilyfarms.com/the-truth-about-sawtooth-oak/ ... they say ...
"Sawtooth drop times can vary widely from year to year. Normally, acorns will begin to hit the ground in early September. In these “average” years there is a narrow window to arrow a deer before the last of the acorns are gone. Some years the crop will begin to mature and fall in early to mid-August." "In late acorn dropping years on properties that have native oaks, deer will all but abandon sawtooth acorns in favor of natives once they begin to fall. The acorns of sawtooth oaks have a high concentration of tannins." ".So, why do deer flock to sawtooth acorns? Because they are available not because they taste good. "

Sawtooth Oak: A Good, but not Perfect Tree for Landowners and Wildlife Managers

Since entering the U.S. from Eastern Asia in the 1920s, and especially since its promotion as the ultimate wildlife tree in the last few decades, I doubt there has been a more widely planted tree b…

nwdistrict.ifas.ufl.edu

they say .. "Acorns Drop Early – Sawtooth Oaks produce all their acorns very early in the season, beginning in September. Conversely for acorns) during the winter months, November-January, better known as hunting season in, most of our native oaks drop their mast (a fancy word the Panhandle."


http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/managing-hardwood-stands-for-acorn-production They say ..
Mississippi hunting seasons typically start in early October, and, by this time, the typical sawtooth acorn crop will be either gone or in the last stages of acorn drop. Most sawtooth trees start acorn drop in mid-August to early September and are finished by the time hunters enter the woods to hunt over the year’s crop.”

 

[Oakseeds]

The best way to deal with the nutritional value issue is to suggest we should all eat some of the chestnuts because of their health value. Did you know they are the only nut providing Vit. C (up to 30% of your DMR). Good protein and carbs in late fall / early winter. Lots of wonderful minor nutrients as well. I won't bore you with quotes; you can read it yourself.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/chestnuts-benefits

https://www.webmd.com/diet/health-benefits-chestnuts

https://www.consumerreports.org/hea...e-roasted-chestnuts-good-for-you-a5436471639/

https://www.lybrate.com/topic/benefits-of-chestnuts-and-its-side-effects

https://www.medicinenet.com/are_chestnuts_good_for_you/article.htm

https://www.nutsforlife.com.au/resource/chestnuts/

Fishman ... Thanks for the correction; accuracy is very important. The issue of how invasive sawtooths may or may not be is open to question/discussion. I believe it is not likely specimen trees in a city park will be a problem; however, how it will play out with substantial trees in a more rural and forest environment is yet to be seen.

 

[Native Hunter]

.NH ... y'all have -- arguably - some of the finest sawtooth oak trees ever to root in KY. In relation to my earlier post, and internet sites, I'm one who readily accepts the shared agreement among professionals posting on quality sites. The first item I share doesn't necessarily meet that criteria; however, it presents diuscussion among some KY fellers regarding sawtooth oaks. In 2013, the issues of drop time, nutritional value, and invasiveness were mentioned on this site (it isn't something new) ... https://www.kentuckyhunting.net/threads/sawtooth-oak-question.135350/

A nice transition is provided by an item on the Nativ Nursery site ... "“Customers often ask us… “How come you call yourselves the Nativ Nursery,
and offer the non-native sawtooth oak?” Our answer is… “It’s native somewhere.” Sawtooth oak has been an American citizen for quite some time, and proves itself a winner in our book as the first to provide hard mast for all walks of wildlife. Acorns rain down annually, at a critical time when other oaks haven’t even thought of shedding. Sawtooths are so productive that we can fill the back of a pickup with acorns from three trees!" https://www.nativnurseries.com/products/sawtooth-oak-12-pack-with-free-shipping-quercus-accutisima

Another well known nursery says ... Sawtooth oak - I’m hesitant to add this species to the list as it does have merit, mainly because it produces acorns at a young age and the acorns drop earlier in the year- before the native oaks drop theirs.
https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/conservation/overrated-wildlife-trees

Chestnut Hill Nursery 2023 …. “Sawtooth Oak is a rapid-growing tree." "Bears up to 100 lbs/tree at maturity. It has been widely planted because of its prolific and early bearing for an oak tree. 2015"

https://bpfamilyfarms.com/the-truth-about-sawtooth-oak/ ... they say ...
"Sawtooth drop times can vary widely from year to year. Normally, acorns will begin to hit the ground in early September. In these “average” years there is a narrow window to arrow a deer before the last of the acorns are gone. Some years the crop will begin to mature and fall in early to mid-August." "In late acorn dropping years on properties that have native oaks, deer will all but abandon sawtooth acorns in favor of natives once they begin to fall. The acorns of sawtooth oaks have a high concentration of tannins." ".So, why do deer flock to sawtooth acorns? Because they are available not because they taste good. "

Sawtooth Oak: A Good, but not Perfect Tree for Landowners and Wildlife Managers

Since entering the U.S. from Eastern Asia in the 1920s, and especially since its promotion as the ultimate wildlife tree in the last few decades, I doubt there has been a more widely planted tree b…

nwdistrict.ifas.ufl.edu

they say .. "Acorns Drop Early – Sawtooth Oaks produce all their acorns very early in the season, beginning in September. Conversely for acorns) during the winter months, November-January, better known as hunting season in, most of our native oaks drop their mast (a fancy word the Panhandle."


http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/managing-hardwood-stands-for-acorn-production They say ..
Mississippi hunting seasons typically start in early October, and, by this time, the typical sawtooth acorn crop will be either gone or in the last stages of acorn drop. Most sawtooth trees start acorn drop in mid-August to early September and are finished by the time hunters enter the woods to hunt over the year’s crop.”

Those contain are some excellent examples of how bad and/or incomplete information gets slung around like poop in a manure spreader all over the Internet. Someone new to the game could read all that stuff and walk away believing the exact opposite of what is true for them where they live and for the strain of trees they may have access to.

 

[mattpatt]

Raises hand…stands up

Hi everyone.. My name is Matt.

I planted more Sawtooth Oaks this Spring. I have been watering them this summer and I do not regret it one bit.

That is all. *sits back down*


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[wbpdeer]

for Oakseeds,

I think I can say I am a Chinese Chestnut supporter from way back. If I can only plant 5 nut producing trees, both Chinese Chestnuts and Sawtooth Oak are gonna be in the 5. Why?

My deer show me why? If wbpdeer plants a tree, you can bet your last nickle it is for a whitetail deer. I began deer hunting at the age of 12 years old, 58 years ago in Jackson County, TN, my county of birth.

I am for planting both of these types of trees for a healthy deer herd in Porltand, TN.

I respect your right to plant what you believe is best for your wildlife in your habitat environment. I hope we can agree on that principle on this forum.

I have encountered people that agree with your point of view, my mindset is different on planting Sawtooth Oak than yours. It has been around 4 generations, just over 100 years in the USA.

I hope your deer season goes well, beginning to get the itch as our season is approaching.

wbpdeer