Roller Crimped White Clover?

[KSQ2]

Then if it’s still thick at planting , mow it tight to ground and spread ur seed. You can’t kill the stuff. Last yr a major drought made my WC disappear. I was sure it would have to be replanted. This year thick as can be. It was just hiding. I once sprayed it heavy w gly thinking it would hinder my rotation planting and it jst came on stronger.
I think crimper works best for nearly dead cover crop. I know when I’ve tried my 1200# cultipacker on it , it jst laughs. But that is diff than crimper for sure. Just my thots.


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It’s crazy how much good information is on this site! I could have saved a lot of needless work in the past ten years. Help make sure I understand correct. By alternating cereal grain into existing clover in the fall and spring I can add the p&k my clover needs to keep going strong? If I split my clover in half let’s say, half of it gets wheat and rye in the fall. The other half gets oats and barley in the spring. Then alternate them the following year, correct?

 

[dogghr]

It’s crazy how much good information is on this site! I could have saved a lot of needless work in the past ten years. Help make sure I understand correct. By alternating cereal grain into existing clover in the fall and spring I can add the p&k my clover needs to keep going strong? If I split my clover in half let’s say, half of it gets wheat and rye in the fall. The other half gets oats and barley in the spring. Then alternate them the following year, correct?

That would work and they do complement each other. Or you could just plant your annuals each late summer across the clover plot and let it go thru the next summer perhaps mowing or spraying to kill the grasses/grains late spring if you wanted. Of course barley is not fall planted I doubt. Some broadcast seeds like oats and peas do not do quite as well wo tillage but they do work. Playing w your mixes to make yourself happy is what counts. And your local feed store can be a big help for a specific area. Good luck.


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[davidhelmly]

That would work and they do complement each other. Or you could just plant your annuals each late summer across the clover plot and let it go thru the next summer perhaps mowing or spraying to kill the grasses/grains late spring if you wanted. Of course barley is not fall planted I doubt. Some broadcast seeds like oats and peas do not do quite as well wo tillage but they do work. Playing w your mixes to make yourself happy is what counts. And your local feed store can be a big help for a specific area. Good luck.


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dog, are you saying that barley isn't fall planted like other cereal grains?

 

[dogghr]

dog, are you saying that barley isn't fall planted like other cereal grains?

I can’t say as I have never planted it and do t know much about it. I thot it was spring planted but prob wrong.


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[MarkDarvin]

I can’t say as I have never planted it and do t know much about it. I thot it was spring planted but prob wrong.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a winter barley I believe, but I've never done anything with it. A lot of that kind of stuff only works in warmer zones. The Green Cover guys had some stuff that was supposed to winter kill that came back this year, I think maybe black oats.

I use barley in the spring where winter cereals can't survive standing water from snow melt. This year, I am going to try to grow a second crop of barley right after the first crop, simply for the straw, with the seed heads as a secondary food objective. I think I've got the timing nailed down to about a two week window where the seeds heads from the spring crop will be consumed by deer around the end of July or early August, and I can then mow and start a second crop and get it to lignify before the heat goes away.

 

[KSQ2]

There is a winter barley I believe, but I've never done anything with it. A lot of that kind of stuff only works in warmer zones. The Green Cover guys had some stuff that was supposed to winter kill that came back this year, I think maybe black oats.

I use barley in the spring where winter cereals can't survive standing water from snow melt. This year, I am going to try to grow a second crop of barley right after the first crop, simply for the straw, with the seed heads as a secondary food objective. I think I've got the timing nailed down to about a two week window where the seeds heads from the spring crop will be consumed by deer around the end of July or early August, and I can then mow and start a second crop and get it to lignify before the heat goes away.

Will cereal grains, including barley, eliminate my need to apply potash and phosphorus and keep the clover going strong?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Will cereal grains, including barley, eliminate my need to apply potash and phosphorus and keep the clover going strong?

I wouldn't say it's a remedy all by itself. I will say you probably don't need to put on P and K if you have even fair amounts to start. Nutrients will cycle on their own if you have enough plants and organisms there to do it. I think clover is a lot easier because you don't have to manage for nitrogen cycling. Let/put some broadleafs in and keep pushing cereals, and you'll be pulling from the ancient and stable deposits of P and K before you know it, the ones that don't show up on soil tests.

There's 10,000 years worth of nutrients in the soil, or in the air just above it. All you gotta do is allow it to happen.

 

[KSQ2]

I wouldn't say it's a remedy all by itself. I will say you probably don't need to put on P and K if you have even fair amounts to start. Nutrients will cycle on their own if you have enough plants and organisms there to do it. I think clover is a lot easier because you don't have to manage for nitrogen cycling. Let/put some broadleafs in and keep pushing cereals, and you'll be pulling from the ancient and stable deposits of P and K before you know it, the ones that don't show up on soil tests.

There's 10,000 years worth of nutrients in the soil, or in the air just above it. All you gotta do is allow it to happen.

Only a small portion of our plot area gets worked each year and rotated, right now each 1/3 acre gets worked twice in one year, every 6 years, our staple is clover. The purpose of the rotation is to bring in an exclusive brassica plot within the area each fall. By incorporating this kind of cereal grain into the existing clover, I hope to keep the ground in excellent shape and keep the Johnson grass at bay more naturally. I don’t mind some Johnson grass in the plot area, deer actually like the security it can provide; I just don’t want it to take over in late summer.

 

[dogghr]

That's exactly what I ultimately want to be able to do. I'm a little ways out on getting the right mower for the job. Do you by any chance have pictures of when you've done this, and how it came up after? Also, what kind of mower are you using?

Didn’t have time to take but this pics today but here is a brassica , clover , oat , WW field overseeded late Oct after drought and heat fried the original planting in late July last year. Deep in mix is clover and oats. Brassica didn’t have enough time before freezes to recover much.
When I use to use the rototiller for rotations , I didn’t like WW as well as rye as the former tillers more it’s growth and it is harder to till for planting. But WW feeds well into winter and thickets well. If you look close you can see where deer/fawns have bedded. The wheat will soon head out and I’ll reseed brassica/ grain mix late July. All this was done no till , no mow , just broadcast into thatch.
This is some of my worse textured soil on my place w poor water percolation and retention. Protection of wind and soil erosion and improving OM along w micro and macro flora in the soil is my goal here. Actually I guess that’s my goal in all my land.
Beyond this is an alfalfa clover chicory plot I was spraying today. I thot sure the stuff was toast from last years drought but all plants in this 7 yo plot have recovered well and I mowed it 2 wks ago. Good proof of soil management w little or no tillage protects against drought or monsoon.
One should spend as much time sitting on a stump and observing how nature plants as one does planting plots.

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[dogghr]

And on to WR. This is first year for a long time of not mixing my WR and WW together. Did so fo experiment of question asked on here last fall. Here is a broadcast plot done last Sept of WR oats brassica RC and WC.
Spring mow to release clover??? Why?? Does the clover seem to have a problem??The multitude of plants complement and protect each other. The rye will die soon enough meanwhile inhibiting weed growth. Does nature plant in monoculture? Does she kill everything once that flower emerges? How does she build her soils? Using one plant whose roots reach to the same soil stratosphere of each of its neighbors?? No! She uses a variety of root mining , soil building plants to promote her agenda. Why do we force our plots to go against nature and then whine and lose sleep over what synthetic fertilizers and chemical sprays to use to create an unnatural community??
Notice the deer trail and the fawn bed. Don’t make it difficult. Only those who sell seed fert and chemicals promote the magazine cover plots.

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[DocHolladay]

I didn’t make pictures, but I went and changed batteries in cameras today. While there, I looked at my TNM plot and it was mostly dried up, besides the clover. Just like your plot, there were deer trails and beds everywhere in it. It was nice to see. Some rye and wheat was still standing and the wind had blown a lot of the oats over. AWP was gone too. I ordered seed Friday and was talking to the landowner. He is gonna spray and have the whole field bogged, including my food plot. I’m about 2 weeks behind on planting and looks like I’ll be a month by the time the bogging is done.


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[Mennoniteman]

I didn’t make pictures, but I went and changed batteries in cameras today. While there, I looked at my TNM plot and it was mostly dried up, besides the clover. Just like your plot, there were deer trails and beds everywhere in it. It was nice to see. Some rye and wheat was still standing and the wind had blown a lot of the oats over. AWP was gone too. I ordered seed Friday and was talking to the landowner. He is gonna spray and have the whole field bogged, including my food plot. I’m about 2 weeks behind on planting and looks like I’ll be a month by the time the bogging is done.


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"bogging"? Now there's a term from back in the day. Does that mean to turn over the soil?