Regenerative Plotting

[MarkDarvin]

I picked up a new soils book and I’m making my way through it now. I came across some interesting info on mycorhizal fungi (MF). It could be the difference maker between gross store tomatoes, and fresh soil grown tomatoes.

I knew there was a connection between bacteria dominated soils and zombie super weeds. This dude takes it a step further and connects the rest of the dots.

Our biggest problem weeds are all those that thrive in an environment where we actively kill MF.

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[Baker]

I'll post this in my land tour as well but thought it fit here also. Video quality poor....both FCP and YouTube changed since my last video and I missed upgrading video quality. Won't happen again

 

[MarkDarvin]

I still get a kick outta those goats! That is fantastic that you can get them in there to munch away on those briars.

 

[MarkDarvin]

More, but more what?

I'm on to a new book about food, flavor, nutrition, and the yield explosion of the 20th century. A neat study came up in the book tying the decline in the flavor and nutrition in food to the increase in yields.

Excess artificial fertility really just drove water content and carbohydrates. If yields went up, nutrition did not follow. Instead it was diluted among the increased biomass. In the study documents (It's only 6 pages) there are a couple pages showing the differences in certain nutrients from 1950 samples to 1999 samples of 43 different crops.

Sweet corn for example, in 1950 measured 9 mg of calcium in the sample. In 1999 it only returned 2. Phosphorus in 1950 120 mg, in 1999 it returned 89. In potatoes, calcium dropped from 11 mg to 7, phosphorus from 56 to 46.

The short version: https://hygeia-analytics.com/2016/12/14/nutrient-decline-linked-to-the-dilution-effect/
The longer version: http://saveoursoils.com/userfiles/downloads/1351255687-Changes in USDA food composition data for 43 garden crops, 1950-1999.pdf

 

[MarkDarvin]

Is rye worth a million dollars per acre? By my rough analysis, it's probably north of three million dollars per acre to be able to replicate what it does with man made products and infrastructure.

I had about 6 hours of road time this weekend, and picked up a really good show on the 'Cover Crop Strategies' podcast with a guy by the name of Rick Clark. Rick is farming 7,000 acres organic and no-till. He spent some time talking about how he views nutrient management and the importance of how you handle your cover crops as you transition from cover to production and back again.

He tests his live cereal rye each week leading up to when he's going to plant. He waits further into the spring to plant, because he has found that days = nutrients when you let your cover crop grow. I found a good video of him giving about the same presentation, and he popped up this chart on nutrients taken up and held by his rye.

I found a 2.5 gallon jug of chelated calcium (8.5%) on the web for $85 (= $48/lb of actual Ca). To buy 31 lbs of chelated calcium per acre (and this is just calcium) would cost $1,488. This also doesn't count nutrients sequestered in the below ground biomass.

Chelated potassium (25%) is $109 per 2.5 gallon jug (= $21/lb of actual K). To buy the output equivalent of this rye crop in plant available liquid potassium, it'd cost you $14,162/ac. To install an irrigation system to replicate the spoon feeding action of decomposing residue would be even more painful.

These numbers are likely much higher for mature rye. I let mine (and the wheat) go all the way to maturity, and now it makes perfect sense why that thatch layer is so beneficial. There's a few million dollars in free fertility and infrastructure laying there.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Thoughts from a novice soil enthusiast:

If you're growing weary of the fertilizer situation and are starting to ponder looking in the direction of us excessively hairy and bare-footed regenerative women, one consideration a guy could make to hedge your bets for next season is this. Buy untreated seed (for you corn and bean guys). Otherwise, manage how you have been.

If you've been planting the fancy colored coated seeds the past number of years, you've likely got buildup of neonics and fungicides in your soil. If you've been back to back neon seeds for many years, that's likely why you've got a residue buildup. It's going to take some time for that stuff to break down enough to allow beneficials to move back in and survive.

I don't know if a year will do it, but you can't start until you start. Ya know?

 

[KSQ2]

Thoughts from a novice soil enthusiast:

If you're growing weary of the fertilizer situation and are starting to ponder looking in the direction of us excessively hairy and bare-footed regenerative women, one consideration a guy could make to hedge your bets for next season is this. Buy untreated seed (for you corn and bean guys). Otherwise, manage how you have been.

If you've been planting the fancy colored coated seeds the past number of years, you've likely got buildup of neonics and fungicides in your soil. If you've been back to back neon seeds for many years, that's likely why you've got a residue buildup. It's going to take some time for that stuff to break down enough to allow beneficials to move back in and survive.

I don't know if a year will do it, but you can't start until you start. Ya know?

Cheaper too! When we planted row crops for deer, we used bin run stuff all the time. I liked weeds in the beans!

 

[catscratch]

Is rye worth a million dollars per acre? By my rough analysis, it's probably north of three million dollars per acre to be able to replicate what it does with man made products and infrastructure.

I had about 6 hours of road time this weekend, and picked up a really good show on the 'Cover Crop Strategies' podcast with a guy by the name of Rick Clark. Rick is farming 7,000 acres organic and no-till. He spent some time talking about how he views nutrient management and the importance of how you handle your cover crops as you transition from cover to production and back again.

He tests his live cereal rye each week leading up to when he's going to plant. He waits further into the spring to plant, because he has found that days = nutrients when you let your cover crop grow. I found a good video of him giving about the same presentation, and he popped up this chart on nutrients taken up and held by his rye.

I found a 2.5 gallon jug of chelated calcium (8.5%) on the web for $85 (= $48/lb of actual Ca). To buy 31 lbs of chelated calcium per acre (and this is just calcium) would cost $1,488. This also doesn't count nutrients sequestered in the below ground biomass.

Chelated potassium (25%) is $109 per 2.5 gallon jug (= $21/lb of actual K). To buy the output equivalent of this rye crop in plant available liquid potassium, it'd cost you $14,162/ac. To install an irrigation system to replicate the spoon feeding action of decomposing residue would be even more painful.

These numbers are likely much higher for mature rye. I let mine (and the wheat) go all the way to maturity, and now it makes perfect sense why that thatch layer is so beneficial. There's a few million dollars in free fertility and infrastructure laying there.
View attachment 23498

Thatch!?! Who cares about thatch?


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[Mennoniteman]

Is rye worth a million dollars per acre? By my rough analysis, it's probably north of three million dollars per acre to be able to replicate what it does with man made products and infrastructure.

I had about 6 hours of road time this weekend, and picked up a really good show on the 'Cover Crop Strategies' podcast with a guy by the name of Rick Clark. Rick is farming 7,000 acres organic and no-till. He spent some time talking about how he views nutrient management and the importance of how you handle your cover crops as you transition from cover to production and back again.

He tests his live cereal rye each week leading up to when he's going to plant. He waits further into the spring to plant, because he has found that days = nutrients when you let your cover crop grow. I found a good video of him giving about the same presentation, and he popped up this chart on nutrients taken up and held by his rye.

I found a 2.5 gallon jug of chelated calcium (8.5%) on the web for $85 (= $48/lb of actual Ca). To buy 31 lbs of chelated calcium per acre (and this is just calcium) would cost $1,488. This also doesn't count nutrients sequestered in the below ground biomass.

Chelated potassium (25%) is $109 per 2.5 gallon jug (= $21/lb of actual K). To buy the output equivalent of this rye crop in plant available liquid potassium, it'd cost you $14,162/ac. To install an irrigation system to replicate the spoon feeding action of decomposing residue would be even more painful.

These numbers are likely much higher for mature rye. I let mine (and the wheat) go all the way to maturity, and now it makes perfect sense why that thatch layer is so beneficial. There's a few million dollars in free fertility and infrastructure laying there.
View attachment 23498

Your numbers don't seem to be working quite the same on my calculator, but otherwise you are spot on about the value of thatch. Bare exposed dirt isn't good for conserving nutrients or soil. The biggest issue that I face is if I grow beans or corn plots for deer I'm letting them stand for winter feed, which gives me no opportunity to plant rye cover crop for straw for the next spring. Beans and corn plots are too big in acreage (4-6 acre fields) to walk the rows and spin rye in by hand in the fall, and broadcasting with equipment ruins the winter feed. So, what works great for farmers harvesting the beans or corn in early fall and planting cover crop, does not work for food plots. If you have any ideas on this, let me know.

 

[jlane35]

https://www.aeroseeder.com/

 

[KSQ2]

That’s gotta be EXPENSIVE, pretty cool though!

 

[jlane35]

That’s gotta be EXPENSIVE, pretty cool though!

No idea but Mennonite asked for a solution and I remembered seeing an advertisement for this once. Maybe it would be cheaper to rent a small airplane or helicopter for an hour and just dump the seed out over the top of the soybeans and corn.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Your numbers don't seem to be working quite the same on my calculator, but otherwise you are spot on about the value of thatch. Bare exposed dirt isn't good for conserving nutrients or soil. The biggest issue that I face is if I grow beans or corn plots for deer I'm letting them stand for winter feed, which gives me no opportunity to plant rye cover crop for straw for the next spring. Beans and corn plots are too big in acreage (4-6 acre fields) to walk the rows and spin rye in by hand in the fall, and broadcasting with equipment ruins the winter feed. So, what works great for farmers harvesting the beans or corn in early fall and planting cover crop, does not work for food plots. If you have any ideas on this, let me know.

I always thought cone spreaders should be on the front of tractors, and not on the back, and then on loader arms to really get them up in the air. I don't know how wide those things can cast, but if it were far enough , I'd run down some beans to get the fall crop flown on, on the assumption what you run down will be covered by what you gain. I'd shorten up the maturity on the beans so you can use some fall sun to get the second crop up well in advance of winter too.

That's pie in the sky. I'm not a welder, but in my head, that's what I'd try if I could pull the idea team together. I'm not sure how many acres you're working, but the old hand fling out of a 5 gallon bucket covers a lot of ground pretty fast. I can spread a bucket of cereal in about 60 seconds, but I'm only doing 4-6 bushels when I do mine.

 

[MarkDarvin]

On those wacky chelated drip fed nutrient numbers, I take the cost of everything, and divide it into the risk free rate. The risk free rate is the yield on the 10-year treasury. Right now, let's call it 2.65%. If we spend $20,000/ac to spoon feed chelated nutrients to a crop all season long (to mimick the release from decomposing cover crops), the math becomes $20,000 divided into the risk free rate of 0.0265 = $754,717. And that doesn't count the opportunity cost of the irrigation infrastructure to apply it. Let's say it costs all in $235/ac to own and operate an irrigator (That's a WAG based on 2x the 2007 NRCS operation estimates). So $235 / .0265 = $8,868.

Looks like I did overshoot it. If the 10-year was back down around 1%, it'd be $2,032,500. Not a bad replacement return for a $15 bag of seed.

 

[Mennoniteman]

You guys are thinking, and that's a start!
Great video, but I broadcast rye at 200 lb per acre, at 4 acres that's just not feasible for current drone technology. Hiring a professional in an airplane so that even coverage is achieved is cost prohibitive in the hills where there is nobody within 50 miles in that business. Slinging a half ton of rye seed over 4 acres by hand might be physically doable, but the bigger drawback is attaining even coverage for an even straw bed to plant into the next year. The spinner on the loader is a good idea that is doable, thanks @MarkDarvin for suggesting. I have a 500 lb capacity spinner, I'd need a 3 point plate to go on my quick attach, but the bigger issue is the PTO drive, I'd have to convert it to a hydraulic motor, and figure out how to get the rpms up to PTO speeds.

 

[MarkDarvin]

You guys are thinking, and that's a start!
Great video, but I broadcast rye at 200 lb per acre, at 4 acres that's just not feasible for current drone technology. Hiring a professional in an airplane so that even coverage is achieved is cost prohibitive in the hills where there is nobody within 50 miles in that business. Slinging a half ton of rye seed over 4 acres by hand might be physically doable, but the bigger drawback is attaining even coverage for an even straw bed to plant into the next year. The spinner on the loader is a good idea that is doable, thanks @MarkDarvin for suggesting. I have a 500 lb capacity spinner, I'd need a 3 point plate to go on my quick attach, but the bigger issue is the PTO drive, I'd have to convert it to a hydraulic motor, and figure out how to get the rpms up to PTO speeds.

Do you go 200 lbs because it’s later in the growing season, or you just going all in for fall tonnage?

I have been shooting for 2 bushels winter cereals, and then 1 bushel of a spring cereal. I’ve been on excavation soil for the most part the past few years so it’s been rye for my winter cereal. I got some serious nonsense coming for this fall. I’m planning to throw out a bushel of spelt on my best half acre’s worth of soil.


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[Mennoniteman]

Do you go 200 lbs because it’s later in the growing season, or you just going all in for fall tonnage?

I have been shooting for 2 bushels winter cereals, and then 1 bushel of a spring cereal. I’ve been on excavation soil for the most part the past few years so it’s been rye for my winter cereal. I got some serious nonsense coming for this fall. I’m planning to throw out a bushel of spelt on my best half acre’s worth of soil.


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200 lbs broadcast equals 100 lbs drilled, this is the fall rye seeding rate that we need to achieve the thickest late spring straw cover needed for weed suppression for planting soybeans.

 

[KSQ2]

Have any of you heard some of the podcasts by Jason Snavely. I realize he’s trying sell seed, but he has some pretty good stuff to say. No better than what’s said here, but still interesting to listen to.

 

[jlane35]

Have any of you heard some of the podcasts by Jason Snavely. I realize he’s trying sell seed, but he has some pretty good stuff to say. No Bette than what’s said here, but still interesting to listen to.

I haven’t listened to his podcasts but he’s from my area. I remember seeing him at hunting expos 10+ years ago.

I was looking at seed mixes of his the other day and I thought they were extremely expensive. Green cover seed seems much cheaper. But Jason doesn’t list what’s in his blends like green cover so maybe there is a viable reason for the price difference.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I haven’t listened to his podcasts but he’s from my area. I remember seeing him at hunting expos 10+ years ago.

I was looking at seed mixes of his the other day and I thought they were extremely expensive. Green cover seed seems much cheaper. But Jason doesn’t list what’s in his blends like green cover so maybe there is a viable reason for the price difference.

If you listen to enough of his podcasts, you can get most of what's in his mixes. Green Cover is making the blends for him, so he has to take something off the top. I think some of them are on YouTube, and there's video/PowerPoint content.