Recreating a Deer Woods

So different across different parts of country.Here in Kansas I have never heard of anyone finding a wild apple tree,wish we did though.Kind of glad I don't have to own that much fire wood or snowshoes either.

Every area has its best points and worst points. You are absolutely right Buckdeer, being married to the chainsaw is a tough one and a week or more of steady snowing when it happens does wear us down. Some days I need to plow the driveway two or three times lest it get too deep for the V-plow to handle. Still my wife and I live here because we chose to.

The wild apples though are a real gift and much of the firewood comes from releasing apple trees so the firewood collecting activity is not all work but some is actually a byproduct of managing the habitat. We do have wild pear trees as well but they are insignificant in number and they peak very early like before early muzzle loader which is about Oct 12 or so. The pears though small are very sweet.
 
I can support Dave's praise for fraxinus. I turned 6 or so of 30 dead ash trees standing around my Loved Ones yard in Michigan in to 800+ board feet. The stack made it with me to Iowa but not to Colorado. I think neighbor Jerry gave me $200 for it.

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I also made around 8 cords of fire wood. Back in the depression I posted this picture on craigslist $45 a face cord. I ended up giving it all to a friend for $120. No one was interested in my ash, at the time there were guys delivering oak for $40 a face cord.

According to the charts ash gives off 21 million BTUs/cord compared to 23 for oak, and 15 for the spruce that is keeping me toasty right now.

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regarding Post # 6...

Chainsaw, those are some of the most awesome pics I've ever seen outside of a glossy pro mag. Dude, you are a ninja in the woods! And "Model" is indeed a beautiful deer. Kudos, kind sir!!
 
Are you getting that buck mounted? I just visited my taxidermist and there was an identical buck there.
 
I can support Dave's praise for fraxinus. I turned 6 or so of 30 dead ash trees standing around my Loved Ones yard in Michigan in to 800+ board feet. The stack made it with me to Iowa but not to Colorado. I think neighbor Jerry gave me $200 for it.

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I also made around 8 cords of fire wood. Back in the depression I posted this picture on craigslist $45 a face cord. I ended up giving it all to a friend for $120. No one was interested in my ash, at the time there were guys delivering oak for $40 a face cord.

According to the charts ash gives off 21 million BTUs/cord compared to 23 for oak, and 15 for the spruce that is keeping me toasty right now.

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Thanks Geo, I knew ash was close in BTUs but didn't realize it was that close. And the boards dry so straight compared to all other woods. And 5/4's I believe your boards to be is such a beautiful sight.
 
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regarding Post # 6...

Chainsaw, those are some of the most awesome pics I've ever seen outside of a glossy pro mag. Dude, you are a ninja in the woods! And "Model" is indeed a beautiful deer. Kudos, kind sir!!

Thank you W33kender; You've made me feel special. Glad you enjoyed the pictures of Model; I definitely got very lucky with him. He knew I was around but just kind of put up with me. It was a real kick to photograph him using old lenses with modern digital equipment. Why he trusted me I have no idea.

Chummer -no I'm not having that deer mounted. After so many years of living with outdoors inside Anne has decided that the sun room will be more modern and won't have any mounted heads, steel traps or mounted fish. She wants just antlers on the rim of the room for contrast to her non-outdoors room..The rim is the area just above the sliding glass doors-all 80 linear feet she would like in antlers. I told her it is a stretch but I'm on it.
 
Getting back to the property overview this 605 acre (5 parcel) property was acquired in four separate purchases. Dubbed Beulah Land by my wife Anne and I, it is located in northern New York with far off views of Lake Ontario to the west. This property borders an extremely fertile area containing some of the most productive agricultural ground in the north east. The property itself is extremely fertile but contains some of the rockiest unworkable soil in town making it a poor and thus lower priced Agricultural parcel; it is also elevation wise higher than land to the south, north and west yet is extremely wet with a water table of 1 1/2 to 3 ft. below the surface in the winter and often at the surface in spring time. Despite its unworkable nature Beulah Land is prime for deer hunting in that it grows stuff well and yet is affordable as compared to the prime Ag land in town which is selling for astronomical prices.
Here is an example of a turnip that grew wild on the property and was dug up in early August.
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The turnip above weighed 8.1 lbs and was one single turnip. And below is an example of how the trees grow here;
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As you can see by the examples above we are talking excellent growth rates here. I recall the maple was about 30 inches at the stump and was 39 years old. Our logger Barry Croniser who comes from the nearby Tugg Hill area said he never saw tree growth as prolific as he is seeing it here. We did not know this when we bought the land;it was partly just plain luck. Growth rates on a property over shadow just about all habitat projects one could do.

And then there are the rocks. Both of these rock pictures are from a small plot put in by our driveway. The giant rock below was as big as the tractor could handle--the really giants had to rolled along with the tractor one roll at a time.
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We did not plow the small plot; the rocks pictured are just some of the ones that were sticking up; Most of the larger ones had already been removed from the above picture.

Though this property is hard to work, too wet and too rocky, some of it rents for agricultural uses. The AG income does help to offset some of the maintenance and tax expenses.This is important. It is one thing to buy land; it is another to afford to keep it when one retires--something to consider when deciding what land to purchase if you want to keep it.
Beulah Land is valued way below the excellent AG lands surrounding it. Low end AG land with great deer hunting such as this sells for twelve to fifteen hundred (based on 2016 sales) per acre locally. Prime AG land sold last year locally for many times that.
I'll focus further on the positives and negatives of the property in my next overview post (snow day).
 
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That turnip weighs more than a house cat. Awesome soil indeed, Chainsaw.
Thanks W33kender. The interesting thing about this soil is in some instances it grows stuff better than some of the nearby super AG land. And the only reason I can figure out is that maybe because of all the rocks most of this property may never have seen a plow. It was at one time all pasture but pasture back then didn't necessarily mean a planted pasture but just fenced in to keep the animals accessible and on the property. Definitely most of the major trees had been removed because there are very few trees over fifty-six years old on the property.
So ironically the soil is abnormally productive partly because the large amount of rocks and boulders present have caused people to not weaken the soil thru tilling and removing crops. Other factors including lake effect rain and snow definitely are key reasons as well.
 
Wonderful pictures and stories Chainsaw! The snow is simply beautiful, much better than my normal winter view of mud.
Around here a wild apple is a pretty rare commodity. I suppose the insects, and heat here take to much of a toll on them.

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I met your neighbors tonight at my wife's work party. Open bar and I am thinking who the hell am I going to talk to. I meet a guy who lives on woodpecker and had a guy named Dave walk his property to do a timber assessment. Small world. A few drinks and a lot of shrimp, beef, scallops, and turkey later it turned out to be a good night. My wife is taking over his book of business and I think she was jealous we hung out all night. I always think two deer hunters at a party will end up finding each other. Gary and Nina said hello.
 
Wonderful pictures and stories Chainsaw! The snow is simply beautiful, much better than my normal winter view of mud.
Around here a wild apple is a pretty rare commodity. I suppose the insects, and heat here take to much of a toll on them.

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Thank you Merle. It is sad that wild apples are disappearing in so many places. Being that the Arkansas Black was created in Arkansas it is likely that apples lived there in numbers at one time. In his essay "Wild Apples" 1862 Thoreau remarked on the disappearance then in progress of the wild apples. Here is the particular paragraph where he spoke of that;
"THE era of the Wild Apple will soon be past. It is a fruit which will probably become extinct in New England. You may still wander through old orchards of native fruit of great extent, which for the most part went to the cider-mill, now all gone to decay. I have heard of an orchard in a distant town, on the side of a hill, where the apples rolled down and lay four feet deep against a wall on the lower side, and this the owner cut down for fear they should be made into cider. Since the temperance reform and the general introduction of grafted fruit, no native apple-trees, such as I see everywhere in deserted pastures, and where the woods have grown up around them, are set out. I fear that he who walks over these fields a century hence will not know the pleasure of knocking off wild apples. Ah, poor man, there are many pleasures which he will not know! Notwithstanding the prevalence of the Baldwin and the Porter, I doubt if so extensive orchards are set out to-day in my town as there were a century ago, when those vast straggling cider-orchards were planted, when men both ate and drank apples, when the pomace-heap was the only nursery, and trees cost nothing but the trouble of setting them out. Men could afford then to stick a tree by every wall-side and let it take its chance. I see nobody planting trees to-day in such out-of-the-way places, along the lonely roads and lanes, and at the bottom of dells in the wood. Now that they have grafted trees, and pay a price for them, they collect them into a plat by their houses, and fence them in, -- and the end of it all will be that we shall be compelled to look for our apples in a barrel."

To see how highly the wild apple was thought of and about in the 1800's here is the link to his essay "THE WILD APPLE"
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/1862nov/186211thoreau.htm

In the picture below is one of our views of spring that keeps me releasing the apple trees even though there are more here than anyone really needs. They just keep on calling me.
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Following Dogghr’s suggestion I decided to take some pictures of wild apple trees unreleased so that others who may have them in their woods but haven’t noticed them might SEE them. On almost every woods walk I have been on thru the MFO Cornell program, the respective property owners and I together found many apple trees they didn’t know were there. Two different foresters that walked this property with me were also at first unable to see any apple trees in the woods. The reason they had not yet recognized them may have been because they were looking for what they “knew” apple trees looked like.

As many of you know trees grow differently in different scenarios. For example a tree grown in a competitive treed environment will grow tall trying to reach the sun. Or if it has sun on one side it will grow in that direction. Great timber trees do not grow in pastures. Pasture trees can have branches all around from the ground up. And some woods grown apple trees actually grow tall and clean like saw timber. The apple tree most people know is grown in an orchard and has a certain shape to it; that shape will usually not be found in woods or even pastures. So in looking for wild apples we are looking for something different than an apple tree as we know it.

Here are some pics taken yesterday behind our barn where I marked with orange tape apple trees in need of releasing (Yes yesterday, January 27, 2017--an historic event-no snow on the ground). The area is dominated by a stand of Common Buckthorn that has completely canopied blocking all sun from hitting the ground. There are two posts of pics. Overkill maybe but if it helps even one of you out there to SEE the apple trees on your property it is worth it.
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Those are some nasty grapevines overtaking this tree. The grapevines seem to chase the apple trees.DSC_9364b.jpg DSC_9365b.jpg DSC_9366b.jpg
The black barked tree immediately to the right of and against the marked apple tree stem is a common buckthorn. The buckthorn grows with a similar shape to the apples but has a much different bark once you look at a few thousand of them.DSC_9369b.jpg DSC_9377b.jpg DSC_9380b.jpg DSC_9381b.jpg DSC_9383b.jpg
close up of the horizontal tree shown two pic up. After releasing it will trunk sprout more and this would be the rare time I might make time to prune the main stem to encourage it to grow back upwards. The other option after releasing it would be to provide support under it and let it be just a very long browse bush.DSC_9389b.jpg
 
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The trees shown and another 60 or so also marked yesterday will be released beginning on the next good weather day. Here are the remainder of pictures to the above post of unreleased apple trees;
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We are seeing directly across our driveway to our driveway food plot. It gets regular traffic from at least 12 different deer and releasing these apple trees will add to the draw of it.DSC_9403b.jpg DSC_9402b.jpg
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The two pics above are of the same apple tree clump. They are very tall and have the best possibility of being heavy producers. While only two in the clump have orange tape the first pic of the two is a poor close up intended to show that about six of the huge stems are apple trees.

And finally the worst case tree of the day, it is down to only one stem alive but it is worth a try.
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Youre right, Chainsaw. I would have hinged those apple trees and called them boxelder. :D
How old are they?
 
Youre right, Chainsaw. I would have hinged those apple trees and called them boxelder. :D
How old are they?
Thanks Fish, You nailed it. Boxelders look as much like apple trees as apple trees do. I can remember when I first became fascinated with saving the apple trees. I had younger eyes and thought I could spot every apple in the woods. Three weeks after marking the twenty or so apple trees in a small patch they came into bloom;there were at least another twenty unmarked among them that I had missed!

I only have surmised guesses as to the age of them;seldom is an apple tree cut down alive and the rings counted. There is a good chance though that out of the large six stem tree a stem or two will need to be cut to release the others. Also dead stems will be removed from some and some of the dead stems may still show rings. This of course will tell us their age when the stems died. When those trees are cut I will get a more accurate age on those apples and report on it.

It is pretty sure though that there will be two ages for the apple trees; one for the marked pasture grown trees which are now buried in the grapevine/buckthorn canopy and one for the single stem/tall no branches woods grown trees. It is expected that the pasture grown apples will be 56 to 60 years old. I don't have a solid guess on the woods grown but expect even the smaller five inch DBH stems to be quite older than they appear.

The great soil here grows stuff fast BUT ONLY IF the stuff is bathed all day in sufficient sun rays. Three years ago the woods stand across the driveway was exactly the same as in the marked apple tree pictures. The apple trees were just as pitiful looking and overgrown. The picture below shows what those pitiful overgrown box elder looking apple trees looked like two year after being released. Of course because we completely cleared all other trees this was a best case release effort. Still I find it quite amazing how the trees have responded so quickly and positively to their new space and sunlight.

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This now food plot along our driveway looked exactly like the marked apple trees being smothered by grape vines and buckthorn as shown in the two page post of unreleased apple trees still "living" on the other side of the driveway. Now they look more like the apple trees as the apple tree images ingrained in our minds.
 
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I met your neighbors tonight at my wife's work party. Open bar and I am thinking who the hell am I going to talk to. I meet a guy who lives on woodpecker and had a guy named Dave walk his property to do a timber assessment. Small world. A few drinks and a lot of shrimp, beef, scallops, and turkey later it turned out to be a good night. My wife is taking over his book of business and I think she was jealous we hung out all night. I always think two deer hunters at a party will end up finding each other. Gary and Nina said hello.

That's real cool Jeremy. The property walk with Gary was one of my earlier walks representing the Cornell MFO program. Through the MFO program I have met some wonderful people and have seen so many beautiful properties and Gary and Nina's were among them. Bordering South Sandy a creek where the next cast could yield a twenty plus pound steelhead trout is just the beginning about that property. Throughout the property thru some of the thickest cover possible Gary had finely mowed trails with no ruts and no rocks. Everything was so neat! It was a real pleasure to walk their property.

And it was on that woods walk that I first saw the apple tree phenomena but in reverse. I know the trees in this area very well and seldom am unsure of a particular woods grown specie. Picking out a beech, oak, ash, hickory or whatever was easy in all of the woods I had been in. On this particular property a mix of AG and woods the trees had grown up either along fields, stream sides, or in pastures. The trees having grown in the open had branches throughout, different shapes than I was used to seeing and were hard to identify. As usual as happens on All woods walks I left learning a lot.

Regarding wild apple tree pruning; I've tried it and very, very seldom like hardly ever prune them anymore. Each year some trees will have a giant limb break off usually from the weight of too many apples or high winds. Those limbs are cut off after a year or two but not until every last bit of life has gone from the broken limbs. The browse available from those branches is a true windfall for the deer.

I prefer to leave all of the branches on the tree not pruned as again they provide significant browse to the deer. My stand on pruning is that I only run a chainsaw or clippers for so many hours a year; as long as there are more apple trees to save(release) that time is better spent releasing them.
 
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