Pro's & Con's of high prices for lease land

[PineSapJunky]

Something that has come up lately in my area is the price of land for lease. Weyerhaeuser is a big company in my neck of the woods since their purchase of Plum Creek. I'm always on the lookout for land for lease in my area in hopes I can jump on the few properties that join our private property. Here recently prices for land has jumped to $20 an acre. My question to you is what are the pro's and con's you have seen in your area when lease land prices increase? Below is a couple concerns of mine.

1. Price of land goes up forcing members to pay more. (No big deal people are just out of pocket more). In this scenario I'm afraid to justify the money they spend people will harvest more deer and be less selective. Thus hurting the overall numbers

2. Clubs will take on more members to help cover the cost. Thus once again seeing an increase in hunters and putting more of a strain on the herd.

3. It will become a rich man's sport leaving others to hunt smaller properties or lead to the increase in poaching and trespassing.

I am fortunate that I have access to a large tract family owned land that isn't going anywhere. But I am surrounded by lease land and I've seen first hand how they impact the deer we hunt. Would love to hear from others.

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[Drycreek]

Prices are pretty high on some places in my area too, and get even higher going west. Lots of Hill Country leases now have free ranging exotics and those places are highly desirable. Who wouldn't want to hunt axis deer in May or June ? Add aoudad, blackbuck, fallow, and Rio Grande turkeys to that list and you have a lease you can use year round.

In East Texas we have whitetail deer and hogs. And more hogs......

I'm on a lease in ETexas that only runs a little over $5 an acre with four of us on it. When I joined three years ago, we were lucky to get a doe on camera. We did have a few bucks come through during the rut, but with no does they didn't hang around. This place is either planted pines or mature timber, not a good scenario for deer groceries. Being somewhat limited in what we could plant, (can't cut any trees that will ever bring $), I planted every inch I could in wheat the first September I was a member. I followed that up with IC peas for spring/summer and last year our cheap lease gave up three bucks.

I think one of the cons to high lease prices is that some guys who don't have quite the passion I have for hunting will either give it up altogether or take a couple trips to day hunting ranches and call it good. Another will be as you observed, too many guns on too few acres. I see that all the time when folks post about lease openings. There are other cons I'm sure besides the ones we noted and I'm afraid I don't see any pros in this scenario.

 

[X-farmerdan]

I'm the treasures of a club with 30 members. Every year finances are a challenge. But, we handle them and I see none of the changes you describe. In fact, change is such a horrid concept we don't address it!

1. We already harvest any deer we see and are hardly selective! Just based on observation and survey results most hunters are NOT selective. Money doesn't change anything.
2. If you can find us more members we'd be glad to have them. New members don't change the number of deer we harvest. Other factors are more determinant.
3. Rich men buy their own land.
4. Here, there's some land so expensive it does not get leased. And I don't mean on a per acre basis. Rather the tracts are so large and so far away from a convenient commute they attract no offers.

That's my experience. There are probably a thousand others. One of your scenarios may be dominant. I just think its hard to know.

 

[Doe Shooter]

I've never leased. That said there are some truisms that apply in every life situation.
The more people involved, the less control there is.
There will never be unanimous agreement on anything.
Some people are just always a pain in the butt about anything and everything.
When it comes to anything involving money : Friends become enemies, gold turns to poop.
The outfitter on the adjacent ground leases hunters from October 1 through the rut. They shoot a lot ,but generally deer figure it out pretty quick and I see more on my land as a result.
My 2 cents.

 

[PineSapJunky]

I'm the treasures of a club with 30 members. Every year finances are a challenge. But, we handle them and I see none of the changes you describe. In fact, change is such a horrid concept we don't address it!

1. We already harvest any deer we see and are hardly selective! Just based on observation and survey results most hunters are NOT selective. Money doesn't change anything.
2. If you can find us more members we'd be glad to have them. New members don't change the number of deer we harvest. Other factors are more determinant.
3. Rich men buy their own land.
4. Here, there's some land so expensive it does not get leased. And I don't mean on a per acre basis. Rather the tracts are so large and so far away from a convenient commute they attract no offers.

That's my experience. There are probably a thousand others. One of your scenarios may be dominant. I just think its hard to know.

I have found in our area the more deer people see while out hunting the more selective they are on what they shoot. Not wanting to wade into the "cull buck myth" and "too many doe scenario". But I find that when a hunter goes a couple of times without seeing anything they get anxious and will find a way to justify killing the first thing they see. We are finally seeing the results of years of hard work educating neighbors about nutrition and herd health. I would hate to see it go down the drain because timber companies are capitalizing on an uptick in the economy.

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[SwampCat]

I have found in our area the more deer people see while out hunting the more selective they are on what they shoot. Not wanting to wade into the "cull buck myth" and "too many doe scenario". But I find that when a hunter goes a couple of times without seeing anything they get anxious and will find a way to justify killing the first thing they see. We are finally seeing the results of years of hard work educating neighbors about nutrition and herd health. I would hate to see it go down the drain because timber companies are capitalizing on an uptick in the economy.

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I agree - where I hunt - the more deer seen, the more selective the hunter.

 

[catscratch]

I cant' confirm most of what you guys are talking about but I do know one thing about leasing where I'm at; it has effectively removed a ton of local families and their kids from hunting. Even people who have land in their family aren't hunting anymore due to it being leased.

One other thing I've seen with leasing is micromanagement and a loss of state control over population numbers and herd management. Once the land is all leased up it's managed more by the larger outfitters than the state (for better or worse).

 

[Doe Shooter]

I cant' confirm most of what you guys are talking about but I do know one thing about leasing where I'm at; it has effectively removed a ton of local families and their kids from hunting. Even people who have land in their family aren't hunting anymore due to it being leased.

One other thing I've seen with leasing is micromanagement and a loss of state control over population numbers and herd management. Once the land is all leased up it's managed more by the larger outfitters than the state (for better or worse).

I've said the same thing many times.


I've owned a small acreage for twenty five+ years. I spent a lot of my youth there on a farm owned by my uncle.I learned to hunt there as a boy at a time when you saw a deer ,you pulled over in the car to watch because they were not that common a sight . My fondness, love and attachment to area this goes back to the 1950's.All you had to do to hunt was knock on the owners door and not behave like a moron. That said, I have some opinions that I will share , for what ever it is worth. In my opinion , great buck hunting can be had pretty much anywhere in this country if the deer have the food ,habitat and age. A local farmer I know leased his land for 10K for bow hunting( no gun hunting) to a couple of guys from North Carolina. I don't blame the farmer. But the money factor has just gotten way out of control. And I believe anyone would be better served by not plunking down a lot of hard earned money and getting involved in a bidding war to lease ground.
People who lease their ground and the outfitters want the people to keep on paying. That's the way it's been going. It's a consideration in cash flowing a purchase of ground. Locals being pushed out is nothing new. Disgruntled locals just know that can't hunt there anymore, but you won't be there year round. You can't minimize the effect of poaching. The locals are going to get their deer no matter what. How much random single shot gun fire have you heard. They know they can get one before or after the guns seasons. They know if they kill enough deer guys will stop coming back. Some locals will shoot a big buck and leave it lay. Meanwhile the working guy who wants to take his kids hunting is caught in the middle. A way of life is being lost. No small wonder the number of hunters is going down.
It's sad.

 

[PineSapJunky]

Shifting gears and adding another layer to the discussion. The first case of CWD was confirmed Friday night west of us on the river. The surrounding 6 counties have been banned from supplemental feeding immediately (not us....yet). I've been reading a ton on the disease and ways to slow it down but it doesn't look good. My question is to the people who hunt in CWD areas. What effect did CWD cause on land prices. Obviously I would think no one wants to hunt in an area with CWD and thus land prices took a dive because of it.

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[SwampCat]

It was discovered in Arkansas about three years ago - and had been here a long time based upon the infection rate. It had no effect on land prices. I dont really think that many folks are buying land based purely on deer hunting.

As someone from Mississippi intent on going out of state on a hunt for deer - what state would you pick for your hunt? Chances are, it is a state that has had known CWD for years.

I know some folks who live and hunt in the epicenter of CWD in my state - and It seems to have not affected the herd - maybe more deer because folks dont shoot as many does there now as they used to.

I will predict the MS g&f and the sportsmen of MS will be all wrapped around the axel over the potential impacts associated with CWD - and three years later - it will be a fact of hunting life.

 

[PineSapJunky]

I'm always in the market for land and I've never taken CWD into consideration. I'm only interested in expanding my current footprint with what we have. That being said I'm always looking for good hunting land and am willing to lease it if needed. The current fray of people who have land leased towards the river are willing to pay big bucks for big bucks. If their situation changes and they believe CWD has effected their deer herd what will keep them from moving to areas not impacted by CWD? I find some of these folks are like a plague of locus. Moving from place to place consuming all of its resources and moving on to the next while never admitting or understanding that their way of hunting (always taking and never giving back) is what causes the decline. I guess I just need to build me a new tinfoil hat out of some thicker stuff. Over thinking a lot of this.

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[holly brice]

I don't think that you are over thinking this thing, People who use the land for money purposes or "bigger bucks" is harmful in so many ways. Not only does it deplete the game in an area it also encourages people to poach or trap more. When the rate of anything goes up many people try to find away around the high cost. Hunting is no different.

 

[erichart75]

I own and hunt land in one of those MS counties with the CWD. I don’t think it will effect the land prices in that area. That area of the state has some of most deer per acre for our state and grows some impressive deer.

 

[PineSapJunky]

I'll be honest. I guess I've lumped all folks into a group that probably doesn't portray the majority of people from that area. I've leased my property in the past to some people from big clubs in the delta for turkey season. I won't deal with them again. Nor will I ever have someone tell me what I can and can't do on my own place. Guess we'll see how this CWD pans out.

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