Plot in the woods question

j-bird

Well-Known Member
I have carved plots out of hallow pastures and corners of crop fields before. This year is my first real shot at putting one in a the woods. The opening I have is fine, my concern is I have already broadcast my clover and chicory seed after I burned the area off earlier in the year. However.....mother nature is tenacious!

Burned plot to remove all leaf littler and small limbs and the like and to get to as much bare dirt as possible.
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I broadcast a pound of ladino white clover and 4 pounds of forage chicory.

A few weeks ago (4/22) things started to green up:
north triangle plot apr 22.jpg

Yesterday (5/6) things had a lot more green.....but not the green I was looking for.
triangle plot.jpg

I had hoped that the seed would germinate and get ahead of what mother nature would provide....but obviously I was wrong. I don't have much experience with natural vegetative woodland plants so I am not sure what to expect of these......
Currently there seems to be little if any signs of the seed I planted.....so my question is simple....

Do I spray the plot with gly to kill everything and see what of my seed may still come up? OR do I wait it out and see if my seed will fight it's way through? OR do I simply scalp the crap out of what is there with a mower/weed-eater and see what happens?

I figured some of you with far more exp than I with woodland plots may be able to offer up some advice.
 
J, you know the answer here, you just looking for a miracle answer. First, as you know, a burn is the best way to release mother natures seed bank and you did a great job. Second you know to plant those seed with a cover crop of some sort. I'm just raggin you , hope you know that.
Anyways, I plant forest road plots each year. I do so early Sept with clovers , brassica, and a cover crop of WR. I just broadcast and mow growth on top of seed. Sometimes I do add 19-19-19 and pellot lime but have never done soil tests on them. Always have great transition plots for fall and the clover/rye persists into the following summer. I'd start over this fall if it were me. Good luck.
 
I have never tried summer plots in woods. Only fall winter. I say see if deer like. If not mow before seed.
 
I thought maybe a wooded plot would give my seed a fighting chance. I may just attack it with a weed-wacker and see what happens and if in a few more weeks I still don't see what I am looking for I may just bite the bullet and spray and start over come late summer. I really didn't expect mother nature to bounce back as much as it did. I am not as familiar with my woodland plants so I am not real sure what is all there, but from what I have seen it's not the traditional browse plants like jewelweed, ragweed and the like that I know the deer will eat.

This spot is just too ideal to walk away from. It's 50 to 100 yards inside a inside corner of a crop field, water hole right next to it and all the logging trails lead to this area AND there is some thick stuff just a stones throw away as well. I don't care if the does lay claim to it..... they will eventually bring what I am looking for!
 
"I'd lime and fertilize it, and wait to see if the deer eat whatever that is. If not, zap it with gly and start over."

That's what I would do also, with a game camera on the plot. If the deer use it, I'd leave it be until early fall and replant after gly at the time. You should end up with good vegetation for a throw&mow. If the deer don't use it now, then a strong dose of gly is in order. Your seed may be under that growth just waiting for a chance.
 
I I really didn't expect mother nature to bounce back as much as it did. I am not as familiar with my woodland plants so I am not real sure what is all there, but from what I have seen it's not the traditional browse plants like jewelweed, ragweed and the like that I know the deer will eat.
Can you get some close up pics?
It would be helpful to know just exactly what ypu have growing there. It might actually be more desirable than what you planted.
 
Is erosion a factor here? If not I'd do Gly and start over asap. Woods plots will probably need lots of lime, some magnesium, and sulfur plus boron to grow ag plants. Soil in the woods is generally poor on nutrients compared to old pastures and fallow ground.
 
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Can you get some close up pics?
It would be helpful to know just exactly what ypu have growing there. It might actually be more desirable than what you planted.
I will get some "close-up's" this weekend and post....
 
Is erosion a factor here? If not I'd do fly and start over asap. Woods plots will probably need lots of lime, some magnesium, and sulfur plus boron to grow ag plants. Soil in the woods is generally poor on nutrients compared to old pastures and fallow ground.
Erosion is not a real concern here. I am almost fearful of a soil test result! I will see about pulling one.....as I need to pull several actually for other plots as well.
 
For newly cleared plots in the woods, if they are a smaller size like half acre I'd probably put a heavy dose of lime and fertilizer on and till the soil if possible, then plant a tenacious soil building planting like rye and clover and let it for a year, and do a soil test the following year to see what else is needed. If you do a soil test right away my experience has been that the soils people kind of freak out at the low values of soil in the woods and tell you that you need a huge amount of everything, and your first soil test is kind of wasted because you need to get the soil closer to the condition of ag land before the fine tuning of a soil test is useful. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of soil tests, but in woodland the topsoil is usually only a thin layer on top with subsoil below, and you need to mix that up and amend it with some OM and nutrients just to get in the general range where a soil test can tell you what you need to know for that particular dirt. I'd use hi-mag lime for the first application.
 
If it's really a good location, I would keep at it and you may see success in year two. I would cut down a few of those larger trees that seem to be very close to the middle of the plot. Their roots will reach a long way and suck all the moisture out by middle of the summer. Leave the oaks and cut down those trees that have no timber value. I would burn the weeds down with roundup, then dump 300-400 lbs of lime, then retry with just oats, wheat, or cereal rye. Lightly fertilize. When that combo dies out in Aug or so, plant with turnips and clover mix early Aug. followed by another broadcast of oats, wheat, or rye in late Sept. I did the same thing in central indiana, took about two years but i have a thick stand of clover year round now. I just add more cereal rye/wheat/or oats with clover in mid Aug. It is a great staging area, deer move through it every day. Clover is boss for year round food source and maximum tonnage.
 
That hardwood shade will kill out anything you plant anyway. Then falling leaves will bury it in fall.
 
Gly then Cow peas. I've grown them in similar set ups. They are the least picky thing I've ever planted. Even with zero soil amendments.
 
I think that you left out the part where they have to fenced or the deer destroy them:D
You're right, beans and cowpeas won't work here, he's talking about a small plot here. For other ideas, I've started half acre plots in the woods by tilling and seeding with only ladino clover and a little fert and lime in the spring, by fall I had a scraggly looking start, added a little more ladino clover seed, fert and lime that fall, by the next spring it was a decent looking plot, but without doing anything more by the two year mark it was lush, thick, and picture book pretty. Clover starts as hard as an old international diesel, but it's actually not that much work or expense, just patience and timely seeding. Five years later that plot is still beautiful and I've done very little to it, 2-10-40 in the spring, 400 lb per acre, one 10oz dose of clethodim in the summer. The top three small plot plantings are clover, clover and clover. And for extra kicks throw n mow a little rape, radish and turnip seed into it in July just to keep things interesting.
 
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I think that you left out the part where they have to fenced or the deer destroy them:D
That's not a problem here. Plant beans , they won't get over an inch tall. The only way to know is to try em. But on my place up north, plant big or they destroy them. Survival depends on deer density and other more desirable row crops. For a first time on new ground, they are a lead pipe cinch for your first planting.
 
You're right, he's talking about a small plot here. I've started half acre plots in the woods by tilling and seeding with only ladino clover and a little fert and lime in the spring, by fall I had a scraggly looking start, added a little more ladino clover seed, fert and lime that fall, by the next spring it was a decent looking plot, but without doing anything more by the two year mark it was lush, thick, and picture book pretty. Clover starts as hard as an old international diesel, but it's actually not that much work or expense, just patience and timely seeding. Five years later that plot is still beautiful and I've done very little to it, 2-10-40 in the spring, 400 lb per acre, one 10oz dose of clethodim in the summer. The top three small plot plantings are clover, clover and clover. And for extra kicks throw n mow a little rape, radish and turnip seed into it in July just to keep things interesting.

The quote that I made was in reference to his suggestion of planting cowpeas, not clover. And FWIW, I was being somewhat sarcastic. I can't imagine developing a small plot of cowpeas around here without an E fence.
Is it possible to establish a small plot of cowpeas anywhere, except for an area with a very small DPSM?
 
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