Planting apple tree from seeds - what will the resulting trees' fruits actually be like?

[Benja]

When I search online "grow apple tree from seed" and read through the resulting articles, I see plainly that apples do not grow true to seed, or that they will produce trees whose fruits are not the same as the fruit you sourced the seeds from. This idea is repeated everywhere I read with so much consistency that - okay - I believe it. What I haven't found is a testimony of someone who planted seeds anyway and photographed fruit from the resulting trees. Has somebody here actually planted a bunch of apple seeds and kept the trees until they produced fruit? And can you describe the results? Is this simply such a terrible idea that no sane person would try, or is it conventional wisdom circulated by tree nurseries to inflate sales?

Additionally, I understand that there will be a lot of variability and that my results will vary. I have a small orchard with a variety of young grafted, "named" apple tree. I want apples for personal use, not resale, and I know from experience that an average apple picked off the tree tastes excellent and better than most supermarket apples.

I think I remember some discussion of this on the old forum, but I couldn't find this question addressed here in the Fruit Tree section.

 

[Kabic]

Your result will vary depending on which trees cross in your open pollination scheme. Apples could be fantastic or shitty or something in between.

A lot if the old apple varieties were created by chance so good results can happen.

 

[Native Hunter]

Here is a thread by Fish that might interest you. He planted 100 crabapple seedlings and ended up keeping 5 that he liked.

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/my-top-5-crabapples.740/

 

[dogdoc]

I have a bunch of apple trees out at my farm that were all started by seed. However, I don't have any old enough to be producing fruit. Half of them I have let them be and the other half I have already grafted to known varieties. There are some self fertile apples that may produce a very like apple from seed but since most are self sterile then they have to be pollinated from a different variety of apple tree in order to fruit. If you have a 100 kids you may get some that look alike and some that look totally different. My two daughters look nothing alike---one a blonde and one a brunette and to the best of my knowledge have the same daddy. All apples came from a seed at one point so who knows, you might just have the next best apple!

Either way it's kinda neat growing your own trees from seed.

 

[Benja]

Here is a thread by Fish that might interest you. He planted 100 crabapple seedlings and ended up keeping 5 that he liked.

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/my-top-5-crabapples.740/

Thanks for the link, Native Hunter. If I read this right, Fish bought 100 baby crabapple trees - "seedlings" - from the state. Does that mean they were grown from seed? I've generally used the word 'seedling' to describe the youngest stage of a tree's life, followed by 'sapling', and then 'tree'. The story Fish tells really does sound like the seedlings were grown from seed and were not a random package of grafted, named crabapples.

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks for the link, Native Hunter. If I read this right, Fish bought 100 baby crabapple trees - "seedlings" - from the state. Does that mean they were grown from seed? I've generally used the word 'seedling' to describe the youngest stage of a tree's life, followed by 'sapling', and then 'tree'. The story Fish tells really does sound like the seedlings were grown from seed and were not a random package of grafted, named crabapples.

I'm certain they would grow them from seed - and the fact that they turned out as trees with different characteristics indicates that too.

Fish is a great guy. If you send him a PM I think he would be happy to talk with you about it.

 

[Benja]

I have a bunch of apple trees out at my farm that were all started by seed. However, I don't have any old enough to be producing fruit. Half of them I have let them be and the other half I have already grafted to known varieties. There are some self fertile apples that may produce a very like apple from seed but since most are self sterile then they have to be pollinated from a different variety of apple tree in order to fruit. If you have a 100 kids you may get some that look alike and some that look totally different. My two daughters look nothing alike---one a blonde and one a brunette and to the best of my knowledge have the same daddy. All apples came from a seed at one point so who knows, you might just have the next best apple!

Either way it's kinda neat growing your own trees from seed.

Yeah, I get the analogy to human offspring. Still, I know a family where all the children bear strong resemblance to each other, and for the most part even resemble their 1st cousins. That's rare and probably unintentional.

How old are your trees? Did you plant seeds from a named apple variety? I'm looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[Buckly]

I have hundreds of wild apples on my property. They all came from seeds that were dispersed by animals or nature. They all produce fruit, they look and taste like apples. that's all I can say. Great for wildlife.

 

[dogdoc]

Yeah, I get the analogy to human offspring. Still, I know a family where all the children bear strong resemblance to each other, and for the most part even resemble their 1st cousins. That's rare and probably unintentional.

How old are your trees? Did you plant seeds from a named apple variety? I'm looking forward to seeing your results.

Most of them are 4 years old trees. So will be a while before I see fruit since they are on full size tree roots. They were all from known variety apples but I didn't mark each seed from what variety apple they were taken from. They were all started in RM trays. I can always graft them later of they don't produce a good apple.

 

[Kabic]

https://www.starkbros.com/about/news/article/new-apples-2017

Just posted at the other place. New cider apple created out of a "chance" seeding...so you never know when you wil get something awesome. ..still happening.

 

[Benja]

Most of them are 4 years old trees. So will be a while before I see fruit since they are on full size tree roots. They were all from known variety apples but I didn't mark each seed from what variety apple they were taken from. They were all started in RM trays. I can always graft them later of they don't produce a good apple.

Grafting - yes, that's what I'm thinking. If the trees survive well but they don't produce fruit I like, I'll take it as an opportunity to learn how to graft.

 

[Benja]

https://www.starkbros.com/about/news/article/new-apples-2017

Just posted at the other place. New cider apple created out of a "chance" seeding...so you never know when you wil get something awesome. ..still happening.

That's an encouraging story. In addition to seeds from trees in my father's 50 year old apple orchard, I have seeds from both Honeycrisp and Pink Lady in my refrigerator.

 

[Fish]

I am interested in Docs seed grown apples too. Producing the next supermarket apple is akin to your next kid playing for the Cubs someday. But, an apple to feed wildlife is a real possibility. Maybe thats like your kid playing high school ball.
My biggest problem with the seed grown crabapples was disease. They all made some sort of apple, although 20% or so were the size of a pea. Fireblight became a major problem after they began flowering. That spread into my formal apple orchard and made a real mess of things.

 

[Fish]

You can also keep dwarf root stock just for grafting your seed grown trees onto. You will get fruiting in 3 years vs 8-10. You can go back and weed out the losers. I think new varieties are developed this way. Let the dwarf tree "reveal" the fruit of that tree your counting on back on the food plot!

Dwarf trees flower, thus fruit, in a fraction of the time it takes a MM111 or seedling rootstock tree.

 

[Benja]

My biggest problem with the seed grown crabapples was disease. They all made some sort of apple, although 20% or so were the size of a pea. Fireblight became a major problem after they began flowering. That spread into my formal apple orchard and made a real mess of things.

Thanks for that input, Fish. Yikes, I find that to be quite sobering. Do you have ideas how to protect the formal orchard from experimental orchard and its diseases?

 

[Fish]

Thanks for that input, Fish. Yikes, I find that to be quite sobering. Do you have ideas how to protect the formal orchard from experimental orchard and its diseases?

Unfortunately, no. Of all apple diseases, fireblight is the king daddy that will absolutely spread across a property. I think if a guy kept close watch you could head it off before it escaped too far. I didnt do that in the early years.

 

[Native Hunter]

If you have good DR cultivars in the formal orchard, the FB in the experimental orchard won't be a problem. When I started planting I made a few mistakes in choosing the wrong trees for the job, and like Fish said, I had some FB issues with certain trees. Over the years I have weeded out the bad ones and now when I experiment with something new, I don't have to worry about my existing trees - they can handle whatever is thrown at them. I don't care how much FB is in the area - it won't hurt them.

I have one experimental tree in the yard now that showed a lot of FB the last two years, and it is within a few feet of some of my good trees. They were not affected at all.

There are two types of trees that are acceptable to me - "Disease Resistant" and "Disease Tolerant." A DT tree is one that may show some signs of a certain disease but its health is not affected significantly and it goes ahead and makes a good crop of fruit. You will also find that some cultivars will be a failure as a dwarf or semi dwarf tree but acceptable as a standard sized tree on its own roots.

The experimental tree I mentioned is probably going to end up in the DT category. It made a boat load of apples last year, and any wood that was taken by FB was replaced with twice as much new growth. The vigor was amazing. However, before it gets the thumbs up from me, I have to see more than a couple of years.

The rootstock thingie is forbidden knowledge in the apple industry. I had a thread about all of this on the old forum, and had documented scientific research to back up everything I said. Some got their panties in a wad, and it was downright comical to watch the fun and squirming when I laid down the sad hammer. I may start another thread here someday, but I have to get in the right mood to do it. It may be my contribution to Making American Apples Great Again.

 

[THE LLC]

Western New York is FULL of apple trees I'm pretty sure weren't grafted varieties. Just the number of trees and different looks to the apples of the ones growing in the median of the Throughway blow my mind.