Pistol choice ?
- Thread starter JohnL48
- Start date
useyourbow
Member
Purpose?
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
For conceal, I like the Shield in .40 cal. If not for conceal, I like the Glock 22 or 23. If you don't have any 9mm yet, I'd pass on them. 40 cal isn't much more for the ammo, and it has more stopping power.
DocHolladay
Well-Known Member
If you are going to EDC, the Shield. If you just want something in the house and to shoot on occasion, the full size M&P feels lighter to me than the Ruger.
Example- Speer Gold Dot- The KE(stopping power) is from Speer's website, the expansion is from FBI tests. I used Speer Gold Dot because it has been an industry standard in performance when it comes to pistol ammo. It is the one every other ammo is compared to in tests.
Here are some things I have learned that came out of a class by an ER doctor. I can't remember which hospital, but he has seen/treated more gunshots than the average ER doc.....
There is a Dr, nurse, police officer, fireman, emt/paramedic, or someone that knows first aid on just about every street corner today. Emergency response times have increased dramatically over the last 20 years and especially since 9/11. This has brought gun shot survivability to 80%. If you take suicide out of the equation that number increases to 90%. The biggest contributing factor to someone dying by a firearm is shot placement and not caliber. If the bullet isn't placed in center mass(heart/lungs) or the cranium, there is a great chance(90%) that the person is going to survive because of aid received directly after the shooting and before the person gets to the hospital.
The .40 makes a larger hole, but not by much(.40 vs .35). It has a bigger meplat as most .40's run a flat nose in practice ammo compared to the 9mm rounded nose. The slight difference in caliber isn't enough to justify ammo cost, recoil and accuracy(recoil plays a big part in a .40's accuracy). In most cases, when you compare the same HP ammo, the 9mm is the same size as the .40 if not slightly larger when expanded(varies by brand). As for "stopping power", KE is close enough that it shouldn't matter(see example below). I would take lower recoil, more magazine capacity and ammo cost into account over "stopping power". If you do not accurately put the bullet where it needs to be, it doesn't matter if it is a .500 S&W or a .22LR. You might shoot a .40 and like it, but try multiple shots in a hurry and you start walking up the target, where as a 9mm will generally stay in the target area. There is a reason why the majority of police dept's and alphabet agencies that once shot .40, have switched back to 9mm. Ammo cost was part of it, accuracy was the majority. I don't shoot +P or +P+ out of my firearms as most companies don't recommend it. Some will tell you the pistol will take it but wear and tear is faster so I avoid it. I have been carrying Speer Gold Dot in either 124r or 147 gr since I bought my first pistol and haven't seen any reason to change. I have seen a lot of new ammo that REALLY makes me want to change, but I haven't had a reason to yet. If I did change, I would choose Federal 124gr HST.
Example- Speer Gold Dot- The KE(stopping power) is from Speer's website, the expansion is from FBI tests. I used Speer Gold Dot because it has been an industry standard in performance when it comes to pistol ammo. It is the one every other ammo is compared to in tests.
- 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dot expansion- .68"- KE- 410 ft/lb
- .40 S&W 165gr Gold Dot expansion- .65" - KE- 484 ft/lb
Here are some things I have learned that came out of a class by an ER doctor. I can't remember which hospital, but he has seen/treated more gunshots than the average ER doc.....
There is a Dr, nurse, police officer, fireman, emt/paramedic, or someone that knows first aid on just about every street corner today. Emergency response times have increased dramatically over the last 20 years and especially since 9/11. This has brought gun shot survivability to 80%. If you take suicide out of the equation that number increases to 90%. The biggest contributing factor to someone dying by a firearm is shot placement and not caliber. If the bullet isn't placed in center mass(heart/lungs) or the cranium, there is a great chance(90%) that the person is going to survive because of aid received directly after the shooting and before the person gets to the hospital.
Last edited:
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
My opinion of striker fired is not very high, with the heavy trigger and long trigger pull it's hard to accurately shoot them without a lot of practice. They are designed as a close range weapon, a huge difference from a Berretta 92, which is easy to shoot accurately in single action out to 30-40 even 50 yards.
The new Remington R-51 is an intriguing design, easier racking, single action trigger pull instead of striker fired, lower center of recoil
.
The new Remington R-51 is an intriguing design, easier racking, single action trigger pull instead of striker fired, lower center of recoil
.
useyourbow
Member
Either the Shield in 9mm or a Glock 19
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
You could move to a free country...
I have a Ruger SR .40c as my concealed carry gun. Have had the 9 and prefer the .40...
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Not sure how experienced you are with pistols, but I just wondered how comfortable you are with the trigger safety design. Some people like them and some don't.
If you've not studied the different kinds of semi auto safety designs, I would recommend doing so before purchasing a gun.
I'm personally a fan of the double action design, but that's just me.
Best wishes.
If you've not studied the different kinds of semi auto safety designs, I would recommend doing so before purchasing a gun.
I'm personally a fan of the double action design, but that's just me.
Best wishes.
DocHolladay
Well-Known Member
The R51 has a been a failure both times they have reintroduced it. This one is a little better than the last version, but still isn't getting high marks in the reviews. Then there is the disassembly of it. It takes four hands and a midget to get it disassembled and reassembled(no offense to any little person here). Remington might as well just give up on reintroducing the R-51 unless they make an EXACT copy of the original Model 51.
JohnL48
Well-Known Member
Haven't had much experience. I'm going to go and and look soon. Need to hold them and see what's comfortable to me. I have big hands and I hear the shield would fit well lol
Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Ask the person at the gun shop to go into detail and explain to you how the safety works, and then make your decision after that. Some designs shoot when the trigger is pulled, and not pulling the trigger is your safety. Good luck.
swat1018
Well-Known Member
......just like a revolver.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
No. Similar, but not the same. The resistance and pull is different, and a revolver has a cylinder turning.
I'm not going to debate the subject. It's like debating whether someone should be a Baptist or Methodist. He asked for advice and said he didn't have much experience. I advised him on what I consider to be an important consideration when choosing a handgun, and I will leave it at that. He can decide what he is comfortable with, just like we all do. In fact, I didn't make a recommendation on anything for him. I just asked him to educate himself before making his choice.
Thanks - Steve
Last edited:
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Have you fired an R51? What did you think of it, did it misfire for you? I have not had the opportunity yet, I want to try one out and see for myself, since anything Remington seems to always get poor reviews. The discounted price is attractive.
DocHolladay
Well-Known Member
I have not fired one, but have sold one. We had to send it back to Remington within 3 days of the customer buying it, for repairs. I then had to show him how to disassemble it and reassemble it after it got back. Worst design ever for breaking a pistol down to clean it. Plenty of youtube reviews out there. I wouldn't have one if they gave it to me and 2 cases of ammo with it.
