Now What?

[PAGUY]

I ruined my plot last August. Tractor was broke so I tried the zero turn. Cut it way too short and the weeds and grass took over. No clover left. I had frost sewn white clover in the spring that hadn't come up yet. Should I start completely over (spray, disc & re-plant) or can I frost seed? It was white/red clover mix.

 

[Jason Broom]

If grass took over last fall, I wouldn't waste time frost-seeding in April. Wait until the field greens up, spray it with gly, wait a few weeks, disc, broadcast 50#/acre of buckwheat. Leave that grow it starts to set seed, then broadcast a brassica mix before you mow the buckwheat. Or, you can let the BW go into mid-August, disc it in lightly, then broadcast a Lick Creek mix of winter rye (cereal), oats, red and white clover, Austrian winter peas and a forage radish. Mix in a pound of chicory. The following spring, you'll have a great plot that lasts all summer.

 

[Doe Shooter]

I've had my best luck working the ground in late Feb/early March ,broadcast crimsom/red mix after working ground. You'll have an early spring flush of food. It will fade out mid June early July. Mow ,spray , plant gly tolerant soybeans($22.00/ 50 # at Rural King) . Put up the electric fence till Sept. 15th. Hunt.Alternate years cereal rye around Dec 15 to June 15 then soybeans.
I believe it is much easier to stay ahead of weed competition by starting over and giving the desired planting a head start . Maintaining a perennial like Clover is more labor intensive (mowing and spraying) and expensive than my twice a year start over.

Just my opinion and what works for me. (and I'm pretty lazy)

 

[X-farmerdan]

From reading what I think you said in your post you probably should re-think your entire approach. I don't know what types grass and weeds came back after your August mowing. Grass is either annual or perennial - cool season or warm season. Broadleaf weeds are mostly annuals. So, an August mowing should leave the grass/weed competition minimal. I take it you never saw any clover growing? Your frost seeded into what? Bare dirt? Green grass? Dead thatch? Something else? If your seed never gets to soil, the odds of success are slim.

 

[PAGUY]

Thanks guys. I will research these suggestions and possibly pm you if that's ok?

This is what the plot looked like in the spring and into the summer.

By August it was knee high and I got impatient and mowed it with a zero turn at 2". When it came back it looked like this with the weeds and grasses eventually overtaking all of the clover before fall.

 

[dogghr]

Just for future referance, best not to mow clover more than a third of its growth. Better to mow few months spaced than one aggressive time. In addition, Aug for me is a terrible month to mow clover. Typically stressed with heat and drought so it respond poorly. I usually mow as late as June, then its on its own till next spring.
Personally, I hate starting over. I would overseed in March a WR,RC, WC mix then plan to attack grasses in -may/june.. The WR will give you some weed and grass control and clovers should get a grasp. Spread fert with no N such as 0-20-20 and maybe again in fall depending on you soil tests. Good luck, and remember, some grasses and weeds is not always a bad thing in foodplots as long as they don't get out of control Many weeds can be controlled just with timely mowing. Grass chemical tx depends on type of grasses with Cleth being the most common and cheapest chemical to use on most other than sedge.

 

[X-farmerdan]

Is you plot wet?

 

[PAGUY]

Is you plot wet?

No.

 

[PAGUY]

Just for future referance, best not to mow clover more than a third of its growth. Better to mow few months spaced than one aggressive time. In addition, Aug for me is a terrible month to mow clover. Typically stressed with heat and drought so it respond poorly. I usually mow as late as June, then its on its own till next spring.
Personally, I hate starting over. I would overseed in March a WR,RC, WC mix then plan to attack grasses in -may/june.. The WR will give you some weed and grass control and clovers should get a grasp. Spread fert with no N such as 0-20-20 and maybe again in fall depending on you soil tests. Good luck, and remember, some grasses and weeds is not always a bad thing in foodplots as long as they don't get out of control Many weeds can be controlled just with timely mowing. Grass chemical tx depends on type of grasses with Cleth being the most common and cheapest chemical to use on most other than sedge.

Good to know about the mowing. I was under the impression the deer liked it better if it was growing and not so high? Since I frost seeded white clover into it last spring, shouldn't it come on this spring? The mowing shouldn't have effected it, right? I can frost seed WR without working the ground?

 

[dogghr]

Good to know about the mowing. I was under the impression the deer liked it better if it was growing and not so high? Since I frost seeded white clover into it last spring, shouldn't it come on this spring? The mowing shouldn't have effected it, right? I can frost seed WR without working the ground?

I would still overseed the clovers. And yes all can be spread wo tillage in March to April. I actually have better luck w spreading late March when ground is mucky from thaw. As for WR u could spread it on concrete and it will grow. I usually put WR over my perennials in late fall as it helps w weed and grass control besides giving food and early greenup.
BTW make sure ur ph is up to speed as that can allow grasses and weeds easier access if it’s low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tap]

Thanks guys. I will research these suggestions and possibly pm you if that's ok?

This is what the plot looked like in the spring and into the summer.
View attachment 10588
By August it was knee high and I got impatient and mowed it with a zero turn at 2". When it came back it looked like this with the weeds and grasses eventually overtaking all of the clover before fall.
View attachment 10589

By late summer, my clover plots usually look like your second pic, but in my case, the weed and grass invasion isn't caused by mowing. It's caused by over grazing. My deer destroy my clover by late summer and the clover cannot compete with the other stuff. The clover bounces back a little going into fall but it usually looks almost non-existent. By the following May, it's taking off again and out competes the weeds....until late summer and the cycle repeats.
In my case, the deer herd is as "damaging" to my clover as short mowing is.

 

[farmhunter]

I'm a bit with Tap in my experiences. Grasses generally make a run at some point every season - some years they do better than others. I've seen clovers totally turn the tables on grasses like you show - But when they inevitably get too much of a leg up - I recognize that as excess Nitrogen in the soil - and I'll at that point, sometimes reluctantly - I'll rotate the plot into a fall turnip plot - or a spring planted corn plot. I don't like to spray clovers as for me they are generally the nitrogen building, and crop rotating planned plots - ultimately for corn, turnips and soybeans.

 

[FarmerD]

I will mow, if I am over run with broad leaf weeds.

If I am over run with grasses, I will use a weed wiper, mounted on the front of my 4 wheeler, set above the clover, using a 50/50 mix of glyphosate and water. https://www.google.com/search?q=wee...ved=0ahUKEwimh_eOl77YAhVM3IMKHSicCe0Q_AUICygC Kills the grass well and any tall broad leaf weeds.

The top of the clover plant (or most any plants), is the most tender and nutritious part of the plant, so that's my major reason for not mowing. Mowing will regenerate this tender and most nutritious part of the plant, but it also opens the area up for weeds and grasses, which the clover can have a hard time to compete against. I also always use of mix of different clovers, white and medium reds.

The other reason is that I get free clover seed, when I let it go, set to germinate when the temperatures are right to fill in. Then, my belief is that a thick stand of anything, is good weed control, in and of itself.

 

[dogghr]

I'll just slightly disagree with FarmerD, but not much. Perenial clover, especially the whites, spread more by stolon growth as it spreads along the ground with sprouts at each nodule. So letting whites flower and seed provide little benefit other that bees. Think of it as your yard. You don't let your grass grow 2 feet tall to provide seed ( ok maybe I do) in a new yard and while it looks thin that first year, amazingly over the next year or so you begin to have a thick lush lawn because as with clover , it spreads by creeping along the ground by stolons. Whites do the same and why they can look poor the first planting year then amazingly look lush the next summer.
Secondly, I do think grazing or mowing whites to about 6-9 inches during good weather, actually stimulated them to produce more browse almost immeditately which helps shade unwanted. Also the mowing is like grazing cattle, you mow down weeds and to some extent grasses for control. Grasses are not a really bad thing as long as they don't get out of control as they use excess N a perennial plot produces which helps control weeds. That is why I like to over seed WR or WW in late fall to help suck up some of that N, provide winter and early food, and help with weed control by the inherent affect of WR especially. Red clovers and some others have a different apparatas and do well growing 2 feet tall.

 

[Doe Shooter]

I'm a bit with Tap in my experiences. Grasses generally make a run at some point every season - some years they do better than others. I've seen clovers totally turn the tables on grasses like you show - But when they inevitably get too much of a leg up - I recognize that as excess Nitrogen in the soil - and I'll at that point, sometimes reluctantly - I'll rotate the plot into a fall turnip plot - or a spring planted corn plot. I don't like to spray clovers as for me they are generally the nitrogen building, and crop rotating planned plots - ultimately for corn, turnips and soybeans.

FH and Tap re-enforce my point. My goal is to have max attraction in the fall. It's pretty hard to make that happen with clover. I have found when the clover goes dormant during the dry dog days you can spray gly and 2,4d knock back the competition. But it is a gamble. It's just so much easier and cheaper to start clean with something I know will be there drawing them in come October. You are really fighting mother natures hate of mono cultures.