Neck shots

this is a 12 gauge 438 grain remington expander with a barnes slug recovered from a buck i shot. published velocity at 100 yds is 1264 fps, 1551 ft. pounds of energy. hit a rib going in went through the heart and stuck in rib cage on other side of the deer. deer was 100 yards away, walked ten yards and dropped.
 

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So I see that nobody responded to your question about using copper jacketed bullets in the muzzle loader so maybe I can share my experience with them... I have had several different muzzle loaders through years and about 6 years ago I bought one of the new "inline" style break open .50 cal. models. It was a used gun and the original owner had clearly done a poor job of caring for and cleaning it as the inside of the barrel was pretty rough with pits. It was a stainless barrel but that doesn't mean it indestructible, lol.. However due to the rough bore I decided to try out the .45 cal saboted rounds. Since then I have tried them all, Thompson, Powerbelts, Traditions, etc but my favorite is the Barnes 250 gr. For me I haven't had any issues, they shoot reliable groups at 100 yards in my rough barrel of 1-2 inches, they shoot about 3 inches lower at 100 than at 50 yards, and yes most of my shots have gone completely through the deer, with the exception of a doe I shot back in December. She was quartered away from me and moving at about 65 yards when I took the shot and was aiming for the far shoulder. It passed through the ribs and after hitting the shoulder it stopped in the meat. I was able to recover it when I boned it out. I don't know if you are familiar with Barnes bullets but their muzzleloader bullets perform as ed just like all their others, perfect expansion just as advertised. She went about 40 yards and piled up. I am completely satisfied with them. One last thing, ssshhhh, don't tell anyone... but I also use smokeless powder behind them..... but that's another story..
 

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So I see that nobody responded to your question about using copper jacketed bullets in the muzzle loader so maybe I can share my experience with them... I have had several different muzzle loaders through years and about 6 years ago I bought one of the new "inline" style break open .50 cal. models. It was a used gun and the original owner had clearly done a poor job of caring for and cleaning it as the inside of the barrel was pretty rough with pits. It was a stainless barrel but that doesn't mean it indestructible, lol.. However due to the rough bore I decided to try out the .45 cal saboted rounds. Since then I have tried them all, Thompson, Powerbelts, Traditions, etc but my favorite is the Barnes 250 gr. For me I haven't had any issues, they shoot reliable groups at 100 yards in my rough barrel of 1-2 inches, they shoot about 3 inches lower at 100 than at 50 yards, and yes most of my shots have gone completely through the deer, with the exception of a doe I shot back in December. She was quartered away from me and moving at about 65 yards when I took the shot and was aiming for the far shoulder. It passed through the ribs and after hitting the shoulder it stopped in the meat. I was able to recover it when I boned it out. I don't know if you are familiar with Barnes bullets but their muzzleloader bullets perform as ed just like all their others, perfect expansion just as advertised. She went about 40 yards and piled up. I am completely satisfied with them. One last thing, ssshhhh, don't tell anyone... but I also use smokeless powder behind them..... but that's another story..

The only thing I need to add to this for 99.9% of us is "DO NOT DO IT", unless you are extremely experienced. As a hunter education instruction I want to emphasize NEVER SHOOT SMOKELESS POWDER IN A MUZZLELOADER THAT WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR IT! Most muzzleloader barrels are not designed and tested for the pressures modern smokeless powder can produce.

I do understand that factory barrels are "probably" good for higher pressures than a pyrodex equivalent or even BH209 can produce, but without testing, we don't know what the limit is. Someone highly experienced might "get away" with coming up with load that works.

But for 99.9% of us, the risk is not worth the reward.

I considered posting a picture from an ER, but decided against it.

For Givingback, please keep in mind when posting, that there are many novice readers to these forums. A tease like "ssshhhh ...I uses smokeless powder", may be a way to show your expertise, but to a novice reader, it could be the beginning of a trip to the ER.
 
Just so I'm clear, Smokeless muzzleloader shooting and hunting can be a great experience. I've only delved into it in recent years. But, you need to pony up for a custom muzzleloader designed for smokeless or pay to have a qualified gun smith convert or build one for you.
 
Yes, I agree with you, and I wasn't meaning to "tease" anyone, i just didn't want to make the discussion about smokeless powder but to simply say it is what I do... You are right, many muzzle loader hunters do not have the expertise to use smokeless powders, which is why I did not give any information on which powder or any load data. Truthfully, a muzzle-loader is an advanced skill to begin with since it requires the shooter to pour in the correct powder in the correct amount and attach the correct ignition source, any one of which I just described if improperly done could be disastrous. If anyone that is on this forum reading it, then they have access to the internet and a quick search would provide anyone with more information than they could want. I am a reloader with more than 30 years experience and I do not take chances with ammunition. I'm sorry if this offended anyone.
 
Yes, I agree with you, and I wasn't meaning to "tease" anyone, i just didn't want to make the discussion about smokeless powder but to simply say it is what I do... You are right, many muzzle loader hunters do not have the expertise to use smokeless powders, which is why I did not give any information on which powder or any load data. Truthfully, a muzzle-loader is an advanced skill to begin with since it requires the shooter to pour in the correct powder in the correct amount and attach the correct ignition source, any one of which I just described if improperly done could be disastrous. If anyone that is on this forum reading it, then they have access to the internet and a quick search would provide anyone with more information than they could want. I am a reloader with more than 30 years experience and I do not take chances with ammunition. I'm sorry if this offended anyone.
Sounds good. No offence taken on my part. My only concern was some young person new to muzzleloader hunting thinking "maybe I should try to smokeless powder". In many areas, novices can experiment with things they read about and learn from it. In this case, the cost of learning could be the loss of a hand or worse.

I just want to make sure folks reading this thread are clear about the potential danger.
 
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