Managing a clearcut

[jlane35]

11 years ago we had a forester come in and do a cut. Throughout the property he marked out 4 area to be cut heavy. He left oaks standing throughout but it was as close to a clearcut as possible. For the first 5-6 years the deer were utilizing them heavy for browse. Now it seems like the regrowth is choking out the berry bushes and lower browse. Could this regrowth be cut back to promote that early growth and browse? Or should it be left alone until it’s time to cut again by a professional?

 

[BoneCrusher20]

11 years ago we had a forester come in and do a cut. Throughout the property he marked out 4 area to be cut heavy. He left oaks standing throughout but it was as close to a clearcut as possible. For the first 5-6 years the deer were utilizing them heavy for browse. Now it seems like the regrowth is choking out the berry bushes and lower browse. Could this regrowth be cut back to promote that early growth and browse? Or should it be left alone until it’s time to cut again by a professional?

the age old question i have had myself, curious to know others. I normally will let it get to that 10 year mark you can get decent gauge on what seed bank you had for trees there and can start easily hack/squirt undesirables and maybe in another 5 years after that can possibly be in position to hinge cutting some trees or selecting closer which trees want to keep for timber later or or those want to keep for wildlife value as typically have decision at this point as trees that get high dollar boards per foot are not going to be the most desirable from a wildlife perspective.

hard maple for example once past browse height, useless for wildlife not great hinge tree, but sure fetches higher dollar on boards per foot down road. Popple though not going to fetch much on timber harvest, but hinges well and resprouts lot shoots/acre.

 

[gut_pile]

Seems like a prime location for a burn

 

[BoneCrusher20]

Seems like a prime location for a burn

if i only could convince those i share land with to do this....they are always afraid of it getting out of control and taking down the whole woods.

 

[Ryan]

Rx Fire

 

[George]

Start thinning selecting for your crop trees as BoneCrusher alluded to.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

In a Timber stand improvement that is aimed at transitioning from a high-graded woods to a healthy woods, some of the shelter wood/seed trees that were hopefully 10-16" in diameter at the time of cut should be ready for harvest 15 years later, just as the new growth saplings hit that 10-15' high stage, opening things up just enough for the sun to create a whole new crop of seedlings. Taking the largest half of the shelter wood out and doing the rest 5-10 years later can help the transition into a healthy forest with all three sizes of quality trees in even numbers.
The key to managing a woods with the least amount of sweat and chainsaw work is to carefully plan ahead to be able to have enough of some kind of trees that a logger wants, in order to entice the logger to pay you to come out and do your habitat work.
Clearcut is a bad word for deer habitat, and in a clear-cut that idea of logging in stages to constantly have food, cover, and saw logs unfortunately doesn't work, and this leaves two very harsh choices, #1, let your woods turn into a food desert for the next 30 years until you clear-cut again, or, #2; get out the chainsaw and do your own timber stand improvement on the saplings that no one wants.

To do a timber stand improvement on the saplings that no one wants, get a roll of orange flagging tape and mark the most high quality trees there are, every 50 to 100' in every direction, and cut all of the others down, trying to throw them on piles with a pole pusher so that the deer still have trails to get through. If there's no trails, take the saw and cut some. No trails in a cut saplings jungle creates a deer desert as well. Doing this above mentioned project on one acre only is an all day job for two strong, able bodied men, 100 acres equals 100 days, but guarantees good habitat. An alternative is to get a machine in with a chipper/mulcher head on it to save the labor.
Doing enough chainsaw work for habitat improvement to really make a difference is very hard work. The biggest joke in habitat work is when an "expert" is on TV with a 10" hand folding saw doing habitat work, declaring that they are making a difference. A herd of deer eat sprouts by the ton during the winter, not by little handfuls.

 

[Native Hunter]

I would not just leave it along until the next time it is cut. I think this is the perfect time to go in with a chainsaw and a squirt bottle of herbicide and put in some sweat equity that will pay off big. I'm in the process of doing it myself and have worked on it some for the last two years. Here is what I do:

• Hinge cut (but don't stump treat) some trees for both food, screening and increasing future cover from sunlight. (Yellow Poplar, hickory, etc.)
• Cut down and stump treat (or hack and squirt) species that are highly undesirable. (Mainly sweet gum, sycamore, etc. for me).
• Be sure to release crowns of highly desirable species to increase mast production by opening the canopy near them. (Oaks, Blackgum, etc.)
• For beech, they make good screening at some places due to leaf retention in the winter. However, they can also overtake a forest in some soils. Therefore, use judgement on the exact situation you may have a different locations within the woods. You may want to screen at some places and not at others. But do remember that they are a secondary mast tree as well.

This is excellent exercise, and it puts you in charge of your land to accomplish your personal goals. Over time you will change the destiny of a forest and improve your deer hunting dramatically. Good luck.

 

[George]

Perhaps we should take a step back and ask what exactly is the composition of the regrowth?

G

 

[jlane35]

Perhaps we should take a step back and ask what exactly is the composition of the regrowth?

G

Well to be honest, I’m not good at identifying trees without leafs. So this will have to be something that has to wait until Spring.

 

[George]

Does this look familiar? It is an ash thicket. If this is it I would say rake out around your oaks and any other good trees and flick your Bic.

G

 

[jlane35]

Does this look familiar? It is an ash thicket. If this is it I would say rake out around your oaks and any other good trees and flick your Bic.

G

This is an old hay field next to our cabin that we let go fallow. I actually just cut all these trees down about a month ago bc there was never any rabbit sign in it.

I’ll get pictures next time I’m at our place.

 

[jlane35]

Here is a picture the winter it was cut, and another picture of another cut done the same way on the property that we planted blue spruce in the following Spring.

I’ll look through some more pictures but I don’t think I have anything that shows the new growth.

 

[George]

Looks like maple sprouts in the second photo. The cut here was in 96 I hacked and squirt triclopyr in the fall and run the fire in December. I'll be sprinkling clover.



G

 

[George]

MAD maple, ash, dogwood have opposite branch pattern.

G

 

[dogghr]

In his book Grow em Right , Dougherty would take a dozer w the blade set 2 ft off the ground and level all the pole saplings that had regrown in a logged section to reestablish its deer attraction w new growth. He said it was a mess to do but extremely effective.
His books related to deer management in eastern mixed hardwood forests better than any I’ve read.
I always thot that was a great idea even tho my land is mostly too steep for doing such.


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[Mennoniteman]

In his book Grow em Right , Dougherty would take a dozer w the blade set 2 ft off the ground and level all the pole saplings that had regrown in a logged section to reestablish its deer attraction w new growth. He said it was a mess to do but extremely effective.
His books related to deer management in eastern mixed hardwood forests better than any I’ve read.
I always thot that was a great idea even tho my land is mostly too steep for doing such.


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I would think that a bulldozer with the blade set 2' off the ground would not kill many trees but would cripple a lot of trees, leaving a worthless mess.

Does this look familiar? It is an ash thicket. If this is it I would say rake out around your oaks and any other good trees and flick your Bic.

G

Ash was a valuable timber tree in Pennsylvania. But the ash tree borers killed them all, so I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have any ash.

I would not just leave it along until the next time it is cut. I think this is the perfect time to go in with a chainsaw and a squirt bottle of herbicide and put in some sweat equity that will pay off big. I'm in the process of doing it myself and have worked on it some for the last two years. Here is what I do:

• Hinge cut (but don't stump treat) some trees for both food, screening and increasing future cover from sunlight. (Yellow Poplar, hickory, etc.)
• Cut down and stump treat (or hack and squirt) species that are highly undesirable. (Mainly sweet gum, sycamore, etc. for me).
• Be sure to release crowns of highly desirable species to increase mast production by opening the canopy near them. (Oaks, Blackgum, etc.)
• For beech, they make good screening at some places due to leaf retention in the winter. However, they can also overtake a forest in some soils. Therefore, use judgement on the exact situation you may have a different locations within the woods. You may want to screen at some places and not at others. But do remember that they are a secondary mast tree as well.

This is excellent exercise, and it puts you in charge of your land to accomplish your personal goals. Over time you will change the destiny of a forest and improve your deer hunting dramatically. Good luck.

Beech and black gum in PA are considered almost worthless for timber and wildlife.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Here is a picture the winter it was cut, and another picture of another cut done the same way on the property that we planted blue spruce in the following Spring.

I’ll look through some more pictures but I don’t think I have anything that shows the new growth.

In your area the predominant tree species is often cherry and hard maple.

 

[George]

I would think that a bulldozer with the blade set 2' off the ground would not kill many trees but would cripple a lot of trees, leaving a worthless mess.

Ash was a valuable timber tree in Pennsylvania. But the ash tree borers killed them all, so I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have any ash.

Beech and black gum in PA are considered almost worthless for timber and wildlife.

I agree with you on the mess that would be created with a bulldozer. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with a mess like that.

The trees in jlanes35's picture of his overgrown pasture are ash trees, I have eyes. Ash trees were killed off here in Ky but that doesn't mean that I still don't have to run fire to top kill ash thickets.



A lot of animals seek out beechnuts and when a tree drops seed there tends to be a lot of them. Blackgum is a good pollinator tree that drops a highly nutritious drupe and they do not last long when they hit the ground. In the northeast region beech gets 34*/31 users, blackgum 13*/27 users. A star is given when belly contents are 2-5%. in comparison, cherry 50*/56, grape 37*/53, black walnut 6*/4.

G

 

[George]

In his book Grow em Right , Dougherty would take a dozer w the blade set 2 ft off the ground and level all the pole saplings that had regrown in a logged section to reestablish its deer attraction w new growth. He said it was a mess to do but extremely effective.
His books related to deer management in eastern mixed hardwood forests better than any I’ve read.
I always thot that was a great idea even tho my land is mostly too steep for doing such.


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There is no reason why Dougherty wouldn't run fire through to top kill and reset other than New York won't let him use fire.

G