Loader Joystick Hydraulics question

[yoderjac]

I packed up both valves the hoses, and the connectors I had and went to the local hydraulic shop I found. It is a small one man operation. I'm happy to support it. The guy was very helpful. We went through both valves and the entire setup. After we mocked up the new setup, he ordered a few more connectors that I will need. He reused every connector from the existing setup we could. He then ordered some new connectors that I will need. We are using long elbows on the back set of work ports. He built me two new hoses with the connectors I need on the valve end. We are putting swivel type connectors on both ends of the hose, so I can disconnect from the valve without disconnecting from the tractor first. He also schooled me on connector types as well. It was a great experience.

I ask if he wanted me to pay him for the work he did today as well as for the new connectors he ordered. He said "No, we can settle up when they new connectors arrive". Since there was nothing really wrong with the old valve, I gave it to him to repurpose.

I brought the new valve and all the connectors that were not on order back with me. My next task will be figuring out how I want to mount the new valve.

I'm exhausted after a day of PT and the time I spent in his shop.

Just a couple things I learned:

1) SAE O-Ring connector (term used by Summit) is the same as an ORB connector.
2) Use sealant paste or Teflon tape (hydraulic type) on the side of connectors with no O-ring. Don't use it on the side with an O-ring.

 

[yoderjac]

Even though I don't have all the fittings in hand yet, I decided to see if I could make some progress on this project today. The first thing I did was to move the mounting bracket to the other side of the square tubing support.

Next, I decided to install some of the fittings in the valve. The hydraulic guy gave me new o-rings for the fitting we were reusing. I replace the old ones on the adapters for the work ports. I then installed them in the forward work ports. I then installed the elbows I bought from Summit. I did not install anything in the other work ports because I'll need the long elbows I have on order. I then used break cleaner to clean up the quick connects. I applied the hydraulic Teflon tape since there is no O-rings on these connections and installed the quick connects. I think this is enough to mock up physical placement. I put a single bolt through the new valve into the mounting plate to assess physical mounting.

It does not look like I'm going to be able to mount is vertically like the old valve was mounted. The power beyond sleeve would hit the support square tubing and the stick would be an an awkward angle. My plan now to mount the unit horizontally so the elbows come out of the top of the valve rather than the side. I don't think the existing mounting plate is large enough to reuse it for this. I'll need to stop by metal supermarket to pick up some scrap steel for a mounting plate.

I played around with the valve and I think I figured out how to mount it to put the stick in a comfortable position. The current support square tube attaches vertically with bolts and has a 45 degree bend in it. I considering welding a mounting plate at a downward angle to the top of the support. I'll probably weld a piece of angle iron between the support tube and the other end of the mounting bracket for better support. This should have the valve mounted on top of the plate with the quick connects angled downward and the control stick angled upward.

Here is a conceptual diagram of what I'm thinking:

Any thoughts or other ideas are welcome.

 

[yoderjac]

Here is an approximation of where I see the valve being mounted relative to the tractor.

 

[yoderjac]

Things are moving forward but slowly and not without issue. I got a call from my new hydraulic guys to day saying my fittings had arrived. I headed over to pick them up before then heading to Metal Supermarket to pick up a steel plate to use as a mounting bracket.

When I got back, I started fiddling around with the new fittings and found an issue.

The first think I noticed was that tall elbows were not quite tall enough for me to use them directly above the lower elbows for quick connects. That is not a major issue, The have jam nuts with ORB connectors, so I can just angle them outward a bit. I believe this is because we reused the adapters from the previous valve with the short elbows I purchased. This made them a bit taller, enough to interfere with the tall elbows. Good so far installing the first tall elbow. However, when I went to install the second one, I found the ports on the valve are too close together to accommodate the horizontal size of the elbows. Once a tall elbow is installed, the second tall elbow can't get a single revolution into the port without hitting the first. You can see this in the picture. I presume you need to tighten the fittings at least to the O-ring before using the jam nut for final tightening and the angle you want. Unable to make a single revolution won't let them work. I called my new hydraulic guy and he is looking at other options.

I then switched to looking at another issue. The float. I was unable to find the detent position for the valve in either direction I moved the rod. I originally thought maybe there needed to be hydraulic pressure before you could find it, but my new hydraulic guy sad "no". I found a video on youtube and saw it take quite bit of force to put it in float. With that in mind, I was able to find it.

If I mount the new valve flat with the work ports facing up, the float is engaged when I push the rod down. Both on this tractor, and my Kioti, when you push the control rod down the loader lifts and when you push it up (forward), the loader drops. The Kioti has float and you push the rod further forward to engage the float. I think this is the way it is supposed to work. I can't mount the unit upside down with the work ports facing down due to the tractor support tub and bracket design. So, that means if I mount it facing up, the controls for the loader will be backwards.

The summit site says the rod can be mounted vertically or horizontally, but I can't figure out how to do this. I tried to call summit but they are on central time and were closed. I plan to call Monday with a few questions:

1) Can the float position be inverted?
2) How do you change the control rod from horizontal to vertical and back?
3) Roughly how much pressure change from the factory set 2610 psi for each revolution of the pressure relieve control. I don't have a hydraulic gauge.

Next, with the tall elbows mocked up as well as the power beyond, pump, and tank fittings in place, I played around with mounting options.

Trying to mount the valve with the work ports facing to the side would be a challenge. I'm not sure if there would be enough clearance between the tractor and the loader arm. Right now, I'm thinking I will need to mount it with the work ports facing up as shown in the picture above. I'll probably angle it downward unless it makes more sense to mount the control arm in the other orientation once I find out how.

I think I'm on hold for the weekend. I'll need to resolve the tall elbow issue before I finalize the mounting approach.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Things are moving forward but slowly and not without issue. I got a call from my new hydraulic guys to day saying my fittings had arrived. I headed over to pick them up before then heading to Metal Supermarket to pick up a steel plate to use as a mounting bracket.

When I got back, I started fiddling around with the new fittings and found an issue.

The first think I noticed was that tall elbows were not quite tall enough for me to use them directly above the lower elbows for quick connects. That is not a major issue, The have jam nuts with ORB connectors, so I can just angle them outward a bit. I believe this is because we reused the adapters from the previous valve with the short elbows I purchased. This made them a bit taller, enough to interfere with the tall elbows. Good so far installing the first tall elbow. However, when I went to install the second one, I found the ports on the valve are too close together to accommodate the horizontal size of the elbows. Once a tall elbow is installed, the second tall elbow can't get a single revolution into the port without hitting the first. You can see this in the picture. I presume you need to tighten the fittings at least to the O-ring before using the jam nut for final tightening and the angle you want. Unable to make a single revolution won't let them work. I called my new hydraulic guy and he is looking at other options.

I then switched to looking at another issue. The float. I was unable to find the detent position for the valve in either direction I moved the rod. I originally thought maybe there needed to be hydraulic pressure before you could find it, but my new hydraulic guy sad "no". I found a video on youtube and saw it take quite bit of force to put it in float. With that in mind, I was able to find it.

If I mount the new valve flat with the work ports facing up, the float is engaged when I push the rod down. Both on this tractor, and my Kioti, when you push the control rod down the loader lifts and when you push it up (forward), the loader drops. The Kioti has float and you push the rod further forward to engage the float. I think this is the way it is supposed to work. I can't mount the unit upside down with the work ports facing down due to the tractor support tub and bracket design. So, that means if I mount it facing up, the controls for the loader will be backwards.

The summit site says the rod can be mounted vertically or horizontally, but I can't figure out how to do this. I tried to call summit but they are on central time and were closed. I plan to call Monday with a few questions:

1) Can the float position be inverted?
2) How do you change the control rod from horizontal to vertical and back?
3) Roughly how much pressure change from the factory set 2610 psi for each revolution of the pressure relieve control. I don't have a hydraulic gauge.

Next, with the tall elbows mocked up as well as the power beyond, pump, and tank fittings in place, I played around with mounting options.

Trying to mount the valve with the work ports facing to the side would be a challenge. I'm not sure if there would be enough clearance between the tractor and the loader arm. Right now, I'm thinking I will need to mount it with the work ports facing up as shown in the picture above. I'll probably angle it downward unless it makes more sense to mount the control arm in the other orientation once I find out how.

I think I'm on hold for the weekend. I'll need to resolve the tall elbow issue before I finalize the mounting approach.

Can you get your tall elbows with the JIC swivels like the short elbows?

 

[yoderjac]

Can you get your tall elbows with the JIC swivels like the short elbows?

I had a conversation with the hydraulic guy after I posted this. That is exactly what I suggested. I think it may cure 2 problems. First, the tall rear elbows were not tall enough to have sufficient clearance over the front ones because we reused the existing m-m #8-#6 and the front elbows had swivel connects. Those m-m made the front elbows taller. The tall elbows he got went directly into my #8 orb ports and had jam nuts instead of swivels. I think by getting tall elbows with #6 swivel connects and using the existing m-m #8-#6 for the rear would remove the issue of needing to rotate and hitting each other as well as deal with the rear to front clearance issue.

He was also floating the idea of putting and elbow on the hoses. He offered to come over tomorrow and take a look at it and help me decide exactly how to mount it. I'll let you know what we eventually decide to do. This has been an adventure, but certainly a good learning experience.

 

[yoderjac]

I emailed the three questions to Summit but don't expect and answer until Monday. In the meantime, I'm looking into alternatives.

1) can the float position be inverted?
- If not, the alternative would be to mount the new valve with the work ports facing down. Rather than a steel plate, I can think of 2 alternatives for this. One is using some kind of stand-off screws. The other is to use angle iron to weld up a custom bracket instead of a steel plate. The down side to this would be that it may be slightly more difficult to access the quick connects, but frankly, until I decided to replace the valve, I never used them. This SMC 64Q loader is not quick detach. It is a real PITA to remove, so I never remove it. I think this would be a workable solution. The upside is the loader arm controls would operate the way the do on most tractors and I would not have to reverse my mental process each time I use this tractor.

2) How do you change the control rod from horizontal to vertical and back?
- If I presume I'm misunderstanding what the web site means when it says the handle can be mounted horizontally or vertically, I would like to find a work around for this. It would be best if I could mount the valve horizontally with the control handle (joystick) pointed up. I have not cut the zip tie to look under the rubber shroud protecting the loader control. Outside that, the handle screws into a female connector. I checked the handle today and it is an M10 - 1.25 thread. I could probably rig up something to make this 90 degree with jam nuts. I was unable to find an elbow in M10 - 1.25. One option might be to get a a steel threaded rod connector and weld an M10 - 1.25 bolt to it at 90 degrees and use jam nuts.

3) Roughly how much pressure change from the factory set 2610 psi for each revolution of the pressure relieve control. I don't have a hydraulic gauge.
- After poking around on the internet, I don't think they are going to be able to answer this question. I could not find a manual for the valve I bought from Summit, but I found a manual for some of their other valves with adjustable pressure release and they say you need to use a pressure gauge to make the adjustment. I did find one on the internet that is setup for quick-connects but it is $44 bucks and they are out of stock. I think I'll ask the hydraulic shop guy about borrowing or making one for me. Once I adjust the pressure release valve, I doubt I'll every use it again.

I won't make any decisions until I hear back from Summit next week. I'm just thinking about workarounds for now.

 

[yoderjac]

Correction, the new valve handle has an M10-1.0 thread. I wrote it down incorrectly when I checked it. I'm kind of liking the idea of mounting the new valve with the work ports facing down. It would let me put a small tray on top of the valve for tools and stuff. With the valve mounted level, I may be able to adapt the old control handle which should put the handle pretty close to where it was. I think I'll start trying to design a bracket For this approach.

 

[yoderjac]

I just heard back from Summit, not great news. Here was their response:


We appreciate you taking the time to reach back out. We will attempt to answer your questions below:

1. Unfortunately the valve bodies can't have the float position detent orientated in another way as that is by design by the manufacturer. The only way to have the float position facing upward would have to be with having your work port facing downward. We don't currently have the proper replacement parts to reorient the joystick faceplate with the mechanical linkages.
   
2. Apologies on this one as this seems to be an issue with the verbiage of the listings. The valve body with the typical lever handles had the ability to orient in a 90° style, but the joystick handle has linkages underneath the boot that prevent it from being angles in a 90° fashion.
   
3. The pressure relief valve on the monoblock doesn't have a simple way to indicate the relief adjustment so you would indeed need to measure that via the use of a pressure gauge.
   
   Please let us know if you have more questions or concerns with loader valve.

I think I have a solution for the control handle. The handle from the old valve had a bend in it. I think I can cut it off and weld an M10-1.0 bolt to it and use it instead of the handle that came with the new unit.

As for the float, I guess I'm now going to have to work more on the design of a bracket that lets me mount it with the work ports pointing down.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I just heard back from Summit, not great news. Here was their response:


We appreciate you taking the time to reach back out. We will attempt to answer your questions below:

1. Unfortunately the valve bodies can't have the float position detent orientated in another way as that is by design by the manufacturer. The only way to have the float position facing upward would have to be with having your work port facing downward. We don't currently have the proper replacement parts to reorient the joystick faceplate with the mechanical linkages.
   
2. Apologies on this one as this seems to be an issue with the verbiage of the listings. The valve body with the typical lever handles had the ability to orient in a 90° style, but the joystick handle has linkages underneath the boot that prevent it from being angles in a 90° fashion.
   
3. The pressure relief valve on the monoblock doesn't have a simple way to indicate the relief adjustment so you would indeed need to measure that via the use of a pressure gauge.
   
   Please let us know if you have more questions or concerns with loader valve.

I think I have a solution for the control handle. The handle from the old valve had a bend in it. I think I can cut it off and weld an M10-1.0 bolt to it and use it instead of the handle that came with the new unit.

As for the float, I guess I'm now going to have to work more on the design of a bracket that lets me mount it with the work ports pointing down.

Why not just make an adapter to change direction of the handle? Square piece of stock with two holes drilled and tapped to the appropriate thread that are 90* from each other. Take the handle apart by the boot, install your adapter and viola it changed direction. Or bend the handle that's on the valve.

 

[yoderjac]

Why not just make an adapter to change direction of the handle? Square piece of stock with two holes drilled and tapped to the appropriate thread that are 90* from each other. Take the handle apart by the boot, install your adapter and viola it changed direction. Or bend the handle that's on the valve.

Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. My first thought was to use a 90 degree adapter but I could not seem to find anything with M10-1.0 threads. I had saved the old control rod from the old valve. I like it. It has a bend in it that is closer to 45 degrees and with the new valve mounted horizontally, it puts the control in just the right place.

The problem is that the old rod is threaded at 7/16. It has a jam nut on it. 7/16 is an odd size. My thinking now is to adapt the old rod to the new valve. My approach is going to be to spot weld that jam nut in place and then cut the threads off the rod right after the nut. The end of the rod and nut should then provide a nice flat surface. I'll plan to get a M10-1.0 hex bolt. I'll use a grinder and flatten the top of the head a bit. I'll then weld it to the rod. I'll put a new jam nut on the M10-1.0 bolt and screw it in to the sleeve where the new handle goes and use the jam nut to get the right orientation.

I think that will be the easiest part of the project and plan to do it tomorrow. The next part will be more challenging.

There is about 9 3/4 inches of space between the tractor cowling and the loader arm. When I measure the valve with the current adapters and elbows, I get about 9 1/2 inches. That means the valve will need to be centered perfectly.

The current support tubing is not centered in that space. So, any bracket I make will need to offset from the current support.

My current thinking is to make some kind of tray out of angle iron. I would bolt the new valve to the bottom of this tray. I would then weld vertical "legs" to that tray with angle iron. That part seems pretty easy. I found an ammo storage box and I hope to build the tray to fit it. I'll be able to carry small tools on the tractor.

The trick will be figuring out how to connect those legs to the current support tube so it is centered in the space. The hardest part of this is going to be complicated because the tractor is in the barn at my retirement property where I started the project. My Miller welder and all the welding supplies and tools are at the farm about 20 minutes away. This means I won't be able to fit and weld in place.

On another note, the hydraulic guy got tied up and did not come over on Saturday. I called him today. He has another set of stand-offs on order which should allow me to get all the fittings in place. I'm thinking once I get all the fittings. It may make sense to hook up the new valve even though it has no bracket and lift the loader so I can transport the tractor to the farm. I haven't decided if that is worth it or not.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. My first thought was to use a 90 degree adapter but I could not seem to find anything with M10-1.0 threads. I had saved the old control rod from the old valve. I like it. It has a bend in it that is closer to 45 degrees and with the new valve mounted horizontally, it puts the control in just the right place.

The problem is that the old rod is threaded at 7/16. It has a jam nut on it. 7/16 is an odd size. My thinking now is to adapt the old rod to the new valve. My approach is going to be to spot weld that jam nut in place and then cut the threads off the rod right after the nut. The end of the rod and nut should then provide a nice flat surface. I'll plan to get a M10-1.0 hex bolt. I'll use a grinder and flatten the top of the head a bit. I'll then weld it to the rod. I'll put a new jam nut on the M10-1.0 bolt and screw it in to the sleeve where the new handle goes and use the jam nut to get the right orientation.

I think that will be the easiest part of the project and plan to do it tomorrow. The next part will be more challenging.

There is about 9 3/4 inches of space between the tractor cowling and the loader arm. When I measure the valve with the current adapters and elbows, I get about 9 1/2 inches. That means the valve will need to be centered perfectly.

The current support tubing is not centered in that space. So, any bracket I make will need to offset from the current support.

My current thinking is to make some kind of tray out of angle iron. I would bolt the new valve to the bottom of this tray. I would then weld vertical "legs" to that tray with angle iron. That part seems pretty easy. I found an ammo storage box and I hope to build the tray to fit it. I'll be able to carry small tools on the tractor.

The trick will be figuring out how to connect those legs to the current support tube so it is centered in the space. The hardest part of this is going to be complicated because the tractor is in the barn at my retirement property where I started the project. My Miller welder and all the welding supplies and tools are at the farm about 20 minutes away. This means I won't be able to fit and weld in place.

On another note, the hydraulic guy got tied up and did not come over on Saturday. I called him today. He has another set of stand-offs on order which should allow me to get all the fittings in place. I'm thinking once I get all the fittings. It may make sense to hook up the new valve even though it has no bracket and lift the loader so I can transport the tractor to the farm. I haven't decided if that is worth it or not.

Just remember to measure twice and cut/weld once.

 

[yoderjac]

No matter how many times I measure....it seem I'm cutting and welding way too many times!

 

[yoderjac]

Two steps forward and one step back! Evidently measuring twice was not enough!

Today I headed to the farm with two tasks in mind. One was welding the new metric bolt to the old handle, and the other was assessing if I had enough scrap angle iron around to build a bracket and see if I could start one.

The first hiccup was my welding helmet. The batteries had died and it would not turn on. So, I moved on to the other task. I did not have enough angle iron, but I had plenty of 1" square tubing and decided to use it to build a bracket. I cut the first two pieces for the top sides of the bracket and drilled 5/16" holes for bolting it to the valve. I found some thicker flat stock. I thought I might put a long bolt with a variety of jam nuts on it through the existing tubular support where the previous bracket was bolted to it. By adjusting the jam nuts I could center it in the space between the tractor and loader arm. I then drilled holes through the other side of the 1" tubing top sides. I plan to attach the flat stock to it with bolts and attach the other end of the flat stock to that long bolt through the tubular support.

It is hard to describe in words. I'll try to take a couple pictures tomorrow.

My wife was taking a hike at the farm while I was working. When she got back, we headed out for lunch and were able to find the right batteries at an auto parts store nearby. When we got back to the farm, I welded the new metric bolt to the old handle. When I went to connect it to the valve, something was wrong. I SCREWED UP the thread size. I had gone back to Lowes and used a bolt and nut board to match the threads. I got it wrong BOTH times. I think someone messed with the bolt and nut board. I went back to Lowes today and checked the thread size using a different board. Sure enough the thread is actually M10-1.5!

So, tomorrow, I'll need to cut off the bolt I just welded on and weld the correct one on.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Two steps forward and one step back! Evidently measuring twice was not enough!

Today I headed to the farm with two tasks in mind. One was welding the new metric bolt to the old handle, and the other was assessing if I had enough scrap angle iron around to build a bracket and see if I could start one.

The first hiccup was my welding helmet. The batteries had died and it would not turn on. So, I moved on to the other task. I did not have enough angle iron, but I had plenty of 1" square tubing and decided to use it to build a bracket. I cut the first two pieces for the top sides of the bracket and drilled 5/16" holes for bolting it to the valve. I found some thicker flat stock. I thought I might put a long bolt with a variety of jam nuts on it through the existing tubular support where the previous bracket was bolted to it. By adjusting the jam nuts I could center it in the space between the tractor and loader arm. I then drilled holes through the other side of the 1" tubing top sides. I plan to attach the flat stock to it with bolts and attach the other end of the flat stock to that long bolt through the tubular support.

It is hard to describe in words. I'll try to take a couple pictures tomorrow.

My wife was taking a hike at the farm while I was working. When she got back, we headed out for lunch and were able to find the right batteries at an auto parts store nearby. When we got back to the farm, I welded the new metric bolt to the old handle. When I went to connect it to the valve, something was wrong. I SCREWED UP the thread size. I had gone back to Lowes and used a bolt and nut board to match the threads. I got it wrong BOTH times. I think someone messed with the bolt and nut board. I went back to Lowes today and checked the thread size using a different board. Sure enough the thread is actually M10-1.5!

So, tomorrow, I'll need to cut off the bolt I just welded on and weld the correct one on.

Almost sounds like a plumbing project.

 

[yoderjac]

If this wasn't my first time, I'd be a lot more frustrated. It has bee quite the learning experience.

 

[yoderjac]

Ok, here are the pictures I promised of the bracket so far:

Here is the bracket so far. The rear is mounted to the tractor and the front is temporarily supported by a board. The valve is supported by 2 5/16 bolts you can see hanging down from the bracket.

This picture shows the same bracket with the valve mounted with the work ports facing down below the bracket tubes. I checked the ergonomics of the old control handle and they are good. It is high enough that it will be out of the way of my knee and easily in reach.

This is the same as the previous picture but taken from a different angle. Here you can see what I was talking about using a 3/8" x 6" bolt with jam nuts to center it. The current support tube is not centered in the space and with the fittings on the side with elbows, it is a pretty tight fit. The bolt with jam nuts lets me position the valve so it is centered in the space. The next step for the bracket is to figure out how to add supports toward the front of the bracket. The rear supports are 1/4" metal bar. I'm thinking of using something similar for the front , but I'm out of it. I'm considering doing something similar as I did on the front, but there may be issues. First, I would likely need to remove the support bar to drill another hole to support the front of the bracket. Second, I'm not sure I have enough room to install another 6" bolt with jam nuts after it is reinstalled because the loader support will be in the way. I'm also considering welding something to the support tubing.

I like the idea that the valve can be removed with 2 bolts and the bracket, so far, can be removed from the support arm.

It was a rain-out today so I won't be heading to the farm to work on the bracket. I did get a call from my hydraulics guy. The new tall elbows are in, so i plan to go pick those up and get all the fittings installed on the valve. With the proper tall elbows, I hope to have all the quick connects pointed forward.

So far, the only thing I think I will need is a new hose for the Power Beyond. The current one is too short to reach with the new bracket. I plan to wait until the bracket is complete before measuring for the hose.

 

[yoderjac]

I stopped at the hydraulic shop this afternoon and picked up the last of the fittings I'll need. I installed them and the setup is much better:

Here it is with the new fittings installed back on the bracket. I figured I show it from the end view here:

Here it is with the side view. After I get the bracket finished, I plan to modify the top so I can secure an ammo can like this to the top of it for tools and such:

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I stopped at the hydraulic shop this afternoon and picked up the last of the fittings I'll need. I installed them and the setup is much better:

Here it is with the new fittings installed back on the bracket. I figured I show it from the end view here:

Here it is with the side view. After I get the bracket finished, I plan to modify the top so I can secure an ammo can like this to the top of it for tools and such:

Much cleaner setup with the new fittings. I'd be a little concerned with the weight/vibration on the 3/8 bolt setup. I can picture that fatiguing and breaking off. Now that you have the measurements to center your assembly could you cut some square tube and weld it together instead of the bolt?

Maybe you could get some flathead sockethead bolts to mount the valve to the square tube. Countersink them in the tube and you'll have a flat surface to mount your ammo box.

 

[yoderjac]

Much cleaner setup with the new fittings. I'd be a little concerned with the weight/vibration on the 3/8 bolt setup. I can picture that fatiguing and breaking off. Now that you have the measurements to center your assembly could you cut some square tube and weld it together instead of the bolt?

Maybe you could get some flathead sockethead bolts to mount the valve to the square tube. Countersink them in the tube and you'll have a flat surface to mount your ammo box.

Good things to consider. I like the idea of the bolt because it makes for easy removal of the bracket, but your point is well take. I think I'll wait until I build the front side support before deciding on the bolt. I'm thinking of using the square tubing for the front support. I would need to weld an horizontal piece to the vertical support if I do that. That distributes the weight between 2 bolts. Another option is to see if I can find a full threaded grade 8 bolt.

Since the tractor and welder are at different locations, I may take your idea after I make the initial mount. Once I have the loader functioning again, I can take the tractor to the farm where the welder is and do the welding in place if I go the route you suggest.

The flat sockethead bolts are a good idea for the top if I can find some long enough. I'll probably weld some angle iron or something to make some side rails for the tray and places to connect bungee cords to to hold the ammo can in place. If I find the right scrap pieces they may be about as thick as the hex bolt heads. I would not use full pieces, just a few small pieces in key spots. The ammo can is sort of a bonus, and I'll start thinking about it seriously when I'm happy with the valve mount.

Things left to do:

1) Re-weld the correct M10x1.5 bolt to the old handle
2) Have a new Power Beyond hose made to fit the new valve position (old one is too short).
3) See if I can borrow or buy a hydraulic pressure gauge with a male quick connect.
4) Set the pressure relief valve from the factory 2610 psi to the 1600 psi that the SMC valve had.
5) build the front support.

Thanks,

Jack