Late Season Plot Suggestions

[RobbieH]

I live and hunt in Upstate NY. I have a field where I grow soybeans in late May. They stay green and attract deer until the weather gets too cold for them, usually in late October. This year, I'd like to add a separate plot next to the soybeans, that will attract deer during the later part of the season. So this would be a fall/early winter plot.
What would be good to grow, for this purpose and in my climate? The field is maintained by some local dairy farmers that grow corn in it. They leave me some of it to grow my soybean plot, but they still till it and spread manure each spring. So the soil quality is great. Corn and soybeans grow very well. Corn definitely helps, but I'd still like to try something else as well for this late season plot.
What types of wheat, grains, and brassica do some of you (especially in NY) have luck with? I was also thinking of an annual clover.
This will start off as a smaller plot. Maybe a half acre. So I'm even open to suggestions on b.o.b. mixes, such as those offered by White Tail Institute.
Thanks!

 

[Scott44]

I would go with the LC rotation that would give you a cereal grain and a brassica plot. They use the cereal grains all fall and the brassicas are more for the winter.

 

[JDunham]

I would go with the LC rotation that would give you a cereal grain and a brassica plot. They use the cereal grains all fall and the brassicas are more for the winter.

The LC rotation is never a bad plan and works well in upstate NY. I would plant LC's brassica mix for a late season plot. We always have a few plots in this mix for hunting season. The deer hammer ours from mid fall through late winter.

 

[dogdoc]

I'm not from NY but a mix of oats and ryegrain (or wheat), combined with AWP and brassicas will fit what you're looking for just fine.

 

[Wild Thing]

Sugar beets for sure. They would be great for you in upstate NY. I am in Upper Michigan - Zone 4b and they are fantastic here. I planted 2 separate 0.5 acre sugar beet plots last year and found 10 shed antlers in them this spring. One shed antler per 1/10th acre of sugar beets. That is late season draw for sure. See this thread from the Michigan Sportsman Forum:

Sugar Beets at 44 days

 

[j-bird]

Have you ever tried sowing a brassica and cereal grain mix into your standing soybeans once they start to yellow? This can be a great trick to getting more food production for diversity out of the same amount of plot. I like to spread a mix of oats, winter wheat or rye (these are cereal grains) the oats will die with a hard frost, but the winter wheat and rye won't and should even survive until spring. Also a mix of radish and turnip can also be added to give some additional diversity as well. You can even add a bit of an annual clover as well if you like. Depending on the size of your plot and the equipment you have .......I simply mix the cereal grains in one batch and the brassica in another. Once the beans start to turn yellow I simply walk the rows with a hand held or chest broadcaster. I typically walk every other row with the first batch and then the rows I didn't walk the first time with the second batch of seed. As the soybeans leaves dry down they will provide more sunlight and the rain will drive most of the seed into the ground enough to kick start germination. What you will end up with is a green fall/winter plot with rows of standing soybean with pods....hopefully. This will feed deer well into when the snow starts to fly. I like doing this when I plant my beans on 15" centers or even into standing corn on 30" centers. Not all the seed will germinate, but most cereal grains and brassica seed is fairly cheap. You can obviously plant a plot mixed of these same seeds as well if you wish. You may be far enough north that the brassica may not produce much in the way of a tuber but the leaves should still be of interest (maybe as brassica use y deer can be very regional) once the frost hits. If your planting a stand alone plot I would also add in soybeans or AWP (austrian winter pea) or both to the mix to simply increase the early season attraction of the plot as well. Both AWP and fresh green soybeans are like candy to deer int he early fall so they may not last long. The frost will kill any remaining soybeans, but the AWP will survive if the deer don't get them well into winter with some protective snow cover.

 

[RobbieH]

I appreciate all the replies and great suggestions. j-bird, I like the idea you gave about planting between the rows of soybeans, but I don't have a row planter. I drag my soybean plot, broadcast the seeds with my atv spreader, then drag again. Works very well but without rows, the canopy just wouldnt allow anything to grow between the beans. So that's why I'm using a separate section just for a late season plot. I'll look into the AWP though, as they seem to be mentioned in other threads on various plot sites.
Wild Thing - I was also thinking sugar beets. I know some hunters around here talk about them and turnips. Maybe I'll try both to see which the deer prefer.
Scott and JD - what is the LC rotation/brassica mix? Is it this? http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/lcs-mix.8/

 

[Elkaddict]

I have corn, beans and LC brassicas/LC grains for late season. LC mix works great. I also had great success with a mix of Winfred brassicas and rutabagas. Found 8 sheds in this plot. I think they're ideal in NY. I'd plant LC brassicas last week of July and the Winfred/rutabaga late June.

 

[Scott44]

I appreciate all the replies and great suggestions. j-bird, I like the idea you gave about planting between the rows of soybeans, but I don't have a row planter. I drag my soybean plot, broadcast the seeds with my atv spreader, then drag again. Works very well but without rows, the canopy just wouldnt allow anything to grow between the beans. So that's why I'm using a separate section just for a late season plot. I'll look into the AWP though, as they seem to be mentioned in other threads on various plot sites.
Wild Thing - I was also thinking sugar beets. I know some hunters around here talk about them and turnips. Maybe I'll try both to see which the deer prefer.
Scott and JD - what is the LC rotation/brassica mix? Is it this? http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/lcs-mix.8/

Yes that's it, most everyone that does this has their own variation of it that works for them. Mine is for the cereal grains I use oats, rye, radishes, red clover and sunflowers and the brassica mix I use purple top turnips, radishes, rape and kale.

 

[Wild Thing]

I.
Wild Thing - I was also thinking sugar beets. I know some hunters around here talk about them and turnips. Maybe I'll try both to see which the deer prefer.

I've planted rape and turnips for years also. They do eat the turnips some, after they eat the rape and radishes. They do dig some through the snow for turnips but they go bonkers over the sugar beets. Did you see the "minefield" look in the sugar beet plots in the link I posted. There is really no comparison. I will still broadcast some rape and turnips into my beans and along the edge of my corn but I really like the sugar beets - so much so that I doubled up my order of seed and will be planting 2 full acres of sugar beets this year.

 

[RobbieH]

Thanks again, guys. In the LC mix, what exactly are the Spring Oats? Is that what theyre called or is there a more specific name/species? I'll probably need to order online so just want to know what to look for.

 

[Wild Thing]

Thanks again, guys. In the LC mix, what exactly are the Spring Oats? Is that what theyre called or is there a more specific name/species? I'll probably need to order online so just want to know what to look for.

Nothing special on the oats Robbie - any kind of inexpensive seed oats will work. No need to pay for certified weed-free seed. When I was planting the LC mix, I would often plant spring oats and mammoth red clover in my played out brassica plots in the spring. This gives the deer a little something to forage on, cuts down on the weeds taking over your plot and gives you a great "green manure" to plow down prior to planting the fall mix of cereal grains and clovers. When you plant oats in the fall mix with rye or wheat, just know that the oats will winter kill but you will still have your rye or wheat in the spring.

 

[Chainsaw]

Robbie, Every post so far is right on when it comes to what i have seen here in NY on my property. One thing though about NY is for certain and that is that it is usually best to plant seeds at their earliest date possible to reach the goal you want. Brassicas (radishes and turnips specifically) grow to the right maturity when planted in zone 5 NY between July 15 and Aug. 1. Plant it Aug. 15 and it still grows well but the result is significantly less yield of what it would be if planted between July 15 and Aug. 1. So to guard against unforeseen circumstances that will prevent one working the fields on certain dates it is best to plan for the earlier date(July 15) for brassicas. If something goes wrong(heavy rains, equipment breakdown or whatever) one has until Aug. 1 to get his seeds in and still fall in the "best" planting time for this area.

A thirty ft. strip of clover the length of all plots has shown to be more than enough clover on this property. I like to mix four or five different clover varieties together. Rye is always planted with the clover and the optimum planting dates are Aug. 20 until Sept. 1 or Sept. 8 at the latest. For premixed clover the Real World seed worked very well for me.

I plant oats, rye and triticale for grains. The rye and triticale are must haves for the wintering deer as well as early spring feed and they draw deer some in the fall. The oats are a must have for fall attraction. Many people disagree but I always use two types of oats, one of any oat that may cost from 8 to 15 dollars a bushel and an equal amount of Buck Forage oats (BFO)that cost around $35 per 50 lbs. The BFO often has cheat weed seeds in it which if left unchecked can be a problem but the deer prefer BFO over the other oats I have used and it lives thru multiple frosts and is usually still feeding deer into early December. I hate paying that for oats and I keep trying different oats. When I see some oats that the deer like that survive our cold Novembers like BFO does I'll switch immediately. The window for grain planting is Aug. 20 to Sept. 8. Just as with brassicas--plant too early and it is tough or over mature by hunting season to deer, too late and there is less yield. Note--planting grains earlier resulted in less hunting season draw here but more deer digging thru snow in late season and winter to get at it.

The AWP is a very strong draw for the deer. However it gets eaten as fast as it comes up here. Normally it is hard to find a single AWP plant in the plot during hunting season. It is used simply to get the deer eating out of the plot. It is good, it works but it needs other plants planted with it to carry the load.

 

[farmhunter]

All good NY advice -

I think each of us tend to go with what has worked best for us in the past - and sometimes - we luck into something and stay with it - even when other options could even be better. So its important to continue to experiment.

I too use spring oats fall planted wither red/white clover mixes. I like how the oats are laid over dead when the snow melts and I picture those oat roots holding the soil in tact, and breaking down like fertilizer for that young clover that was established in Aug/Sept. It also acts like a dead umbrella from the sun and a sponge for moisture. Weeds are limited in a fall planting, and the dead oats have some alleopatric properties - but maybe not as much as rye. I always used to use rye - but have had trouble finding it in my area. So i've gone to bin oats and have not been unhappy. Rye offers great songbird cover and fawn cover the next spring - but for me was never a big spring food source like i thought it would have been. Sometimes I add 1/2 lb of turnips/acre to that fall mix - they are like little candy apples. Its not exactly the LC mix - but its similar, and its inexpensive. The oats and young turnips are fall attractive - (and some clover) - but the payoff is the next spring.

In this picture - you can see the tan remnants of the dead oats in the background especially. This clover spot is fixing to explode in May,

one other thing about turninps - in NY - I'd be surprised if your deer were all over them the 1st year or 2. For me - they ignored them - and it seems that they just had to get used to them as a viable option. So I always include turnips somewhere every year. I like an July/august planted strip or two - but I also use the spray turnaround spots in my corn and beans - to plant turnip/brassicas.

they are visible and usually in good soil and fertilized already - I never have turnips left over in these spots come spring.

For me AWP or other peas - germinate - grow 2" and I never see them again. the deer do love them - but i cannot justify planting them they are gone so fast. Maybe if I had larger fields.....

Sugar beets sound great - but I've not found a weed control system that justifies planting them. If we could get RR sugar beets - then I'd be more inclined to try. They are long season growers - and require plenty of N.

 

[farmhunter]

I have corn, beans and LC brassicas/LC grains for late season. LC mix works great. I also had great success with a mix of Winfred brassicas and rutabagas. Found 8 sheds in this plot. I think they're ideal in NY. I'd plant LC brassicas last week of July and the Winfred/rutabaga late June.

where did you get your rutabaga Elk? Are they cost effective? I know they get big.

 

[Wild Thing]

Sugar beets sound great - but I've not found a weed control system that justifies planting them. If we could get RR sugar beets - then I'd be more inclined to try. They are long season growers - and require plenty of N.

Farmhunter - I am using RR sugar beet seed. It is expensive at around $200/acre (we have to pay Monsanto for the technology, of course), but the draw and tonnage are worth it to me. One guy I talked to who plants some acreage commercially as well as his food plots, gets 30 tons/acre. Of course, this is in good farm country and he sprays and fertilizes his sugar beets 3 times per year.

I sprayed mine once and top-dressed with Urea once (100#/acre) after planting and they were pretty much weed-free. Check out the photos in the link I posted above. If you are interested in RR SB seed let me know. There was a guy on the Michigan Sportsman Forum a couple of weeks ago who had some leftover seed.

 

[Elkaddict]

where did you get your rutabaga Elk? Are they cost effective? I know they get big.

Farmhunter, I order the rutabagas and Winfred from deer creek seed. Double the cost of LC Brassicas, but well worth it IMO.

http://www.deercreekseed.com/wildli...an-purple-top-rutabaga-brassica-napobrassica/

 

[RobbieH]

Thank you all for the very helpful and informative replies. I definitely have some great ideas now and much to consider. Glad to hear from some fellow New Yorkers too. Great advice on planting dates and what works in plots. I can't wait to get my plot in! I'm going to start shopping around for seeds and put together what will most likely be a combination of what was recommended on this thread. I'll definitely be posting back and keeping the updates coming. Thank you!