Keystone Krops

[Mennoniteman]

Painful indeed, Randy is the side kick of Jake and Jim, all fallen LaPratt apostles that became deer experts. I watched one of his videos where he went down a row along a cattail marsh and dropped big trees into the marsh. He said now big bucks are going to come out and walk this path and get killed by his client in a stand down the way. He had no concept of how bucks relate to the cattail, shrub and tree interface. If I were the landowner I would have sued him for malpractice.

In the aforementioned video he talked about cutting down a beautiful young white oak and a black oak, then he showed clips of him doing so on other jobs. Again, malpractice, Lloyds of London must be carrying his policy. I put a stand in a black oak this year, I did notice that it was dropping acorns. Turns out it was the go to feed tree.

I did my own hinge cut experiments in Iowa, I made similar overhead structures out of hickory right where does where bedding. Does continued to bed in the area around my structures never did I see beds under the structures. In cold weather they bed where broomsedge met cedar on southern exposures. I did a larger hinge cut experiment in Kentucky when I hinge cut 2 acres of red maple. In the following 3 years deer just did not relate much to that patch. Once I ran fire through it and cut down 90% of the hinge cuts it became good/used deer habitat.

These youtube habitat experts seem to all want people to believe that bucks bed on top. Occasionally I would find buck beds on top along the giant fallen bur oaks in Iowa. Even on those smaller ridges most bucks bed on southern exposure side slopes or down off the top out on the nose of the ridge. Here in Kentucky bucks bed 100 feet down in the tops of the watersheds.

New land owners would be money way ahead to buy a good tree ID manual and a Stihl, not an expert. On one video someone asked deer expert Jeff Sturgis, okay the land owner did everything that they paid him to tell and plan out for them and they still don't kill big bucks. Jeff's response was they don't kill big bucks because they are not me. Buyer beware.

G

It's amazing how closely my deer research results align to yours!
I went through almost identical experiments, the hinge cutting was thanks to a seminar by deer expert Jim Ward (who really does know his stuff but was wrong on the canopies) and hinge cut red maples, throwing them in perfect wagon wheel patterns five feet off the ground with a push pole, and the results were so beautiful it even made me want to live under the canopy, but not deer beds showed up underneath those beautiful roofs.
I cut a half acre of the identical red maples flush with the ground, leaving a few acorn dropping trees standing, and the deer absolutely went crazy browsing the resulting stump sprouts. Hinge cutting is definitely still another tool in the toolbox, but with somewhat limited uses.
As to bucks bedding on top of knobs, my research shows the same as yours again, that all deer prefer the military crest southern exposure locations above all else in winter, and military crest southern exposures during summer.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I very much enjoy personal chainsaw work when it comes to habitat. It is definitely slower, but I can save and extract everything I want stem by stem. I've had a great chainsaw season this year. My goal each year is to hit 6 days before the snow is too deep. I just finished day 14 yesterday.

It's also a good way to shorten winter and get some good exercise. I think I'm gonna get in one more weekend to reset some shrubs and re-release my old cut areas.

 

[George]

It's amazing how closely my deer research results align to yours!
I went through almost identical experiments, the hinge cutting was thanks to a seminar by deer expert Jim Ward (who really does know his stuff but was wrong on the canopies) and hinge cut red maples, throwing them in perfect wagon wheel patterns five feet off the ground with a push pole, and the results were so beautiful it even made me want to live under the canopy, but not deer beds showed up underneath those beautiful roofs.
I cut a half acre of the identical red maples flush with the ground, leaving a few acorn dropping trees standing, and the deer absolutely went crazy browsing the resulting stump sprouts. Hinge cutting is definitely still another tool in the toolbox, but with somewhat limited uses.
As to bucks bedding on top of knobs, my research shows the same as yours again, that all deer prefer the military crest southern exposure locations above all else in winter, and military crest southern exposures during summer.

Jim Ward is a deer expert but one that leads by example.

I very much enjoy personal chainsaw work when it comes to habitat. It is definitely slower, but I can save and extract everything I want stem by stem. I've had a great chainsaw season this year. My goal each year is to hit 6 days before the snow is too deep. I just finished day 14 yesterday.

It's also a good way to shorten winter and get some good exercise. I think I'm gonna get in one more weekend to reset some shrubs and re-release my old cut areas.

I do like Kentucky winters. 1" of snow around here can close schools for the rest of the week. When it is freezing here folks bundle up like it is 5 degrees. I have completed the 1st phase of woodland restoration now it is chainsaw time, crop tree release. I am going to lay a lot of carbon on to the ground.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

I very much enjoy personal chainsaw work when it comes to habitat. It is definitely slower, but I can save and extract everything I want stem by stem. I've had a great chainsaw season this year. My goal each year is to hit 6 days before the snow is too deep. I just finished day 14 yesterday.

It's also a good way to shorten winter and get some good exercise. I think I'm gonna get in one more weekend to reset some shrubs and re-release my old cut areas.

You touch on a very important part of chainsaw work and habitat work in general, the enjoyment factor. Loading up the tools and heading out into prime deer habitat in the off-season is in some ways even more fun and rewarding than a trophy hunt, feeling a close connection to the land, and seeing the fruits of earlier labors while also walking into bedding areas that haven't been entered in an entire year.
For the past 4 years I've had an intervention called "life" that kept me tied down with obligations, and the one thing that suffered the most was my winter chainsaw work. This winter will be the first in five that I now have spare time that's not already spoken for, and I will be putting my saws and skidloader into action on bedding areas and trail work, and it's so enjoyable that I look forward to those days with anticipation, a time that's actually more like a mini-vacation for me.
I also agree that winter is a better time for chainsaw work, less sweating, better visibility for identification and safety, and winter time is the best time to trim trees, they recover better (stump sprouts) and heal better with less bleeding etc.
However, I'm curious whether or when your snow in northern MN gets too deep to get out into the bush? How deep are you talking? Also, do your deer tend to yard up when the snow gets too deep, or how do they survive?

 

[Mennoniteman]

Jim Ward is a deer expert but one that leads by example.



I do like Kentucky winters. 1" of snow around here can close schools for the rest of the week. When it is freezing here folks bundle up like it is 5 degrees. I have completed the 1st phase of woodland restoration now it is chainsaw time, crop tree release. I am going to lay a lot of carbon on to the ground.

G

Are you finished working with your forester and getting checks or is this a part of that? Do you do crop tree release by identifying a quality tree then cutting a circle around it? How big an area do you release?

 

[MarkDarvin]

You touch on a very important part of chainsaw work and habitat work in general, the enjoyment factor. Loading up the tools and heading out into prime deer habitat in the off-season is in some ways even more fun and rewarding than a trophy hunt, feeling a close connection to the land, and seeing the fruits of earlier labors while also walking into bedding areas that haven't been entered in an entire year.
For the past 4 years I've had an intervention called "life" that kept me tied down with obligations, and the one thing that suffered the most was my winter chainsaw work. This winter will be the first in five that I now have spare time that's not already spoken for, and I will be putting my saws and skidloader into action on bedding areas and trail work, and it's so enjoyable that I look forward to those days with anticipation, a time that's actually more like a mini-vacation for me.
I also agree that winter is a better time for chainsaw work, less sweating, better visibility for identification and safety, and winter time is the best time to trim trees, they recover better (stump sprouts) and heal better with less bleeding etc.
However, I'm curious whether or when your snow in northern MN gets too deep to get out into the bush? How deep are you talking? Also, do your deer tend to yard up when the snow gets too deep, or how do they survive?

Oh, winter in MN is a whole nother beast. A few things happen to get deer through a MN winter. If the snow gets deep, the deer will head to cedar swamps to overwinter. Those cedars can be exceptionally thick and provide good thermal cover, and help with the snow load.

When the snow gets deep, deer will continue to work their existing trails and keep them open. Trouble is, they don't have a lot of offramps, so they can still be killed easily by wolves and coyotes.

Food gets scarce. You can gauge how bad it is by what is getting browsed by the end of winter. If you see balsam fir getting browsed, you're going to have a massive die off. If you see desirable stump sprouts go untouched, you're swimming in winter chow, or your deer have left. Once December hits, deer metabolisms slow considerably and they don't eat or need to eat as much.

Some winters we don't get enough snow to shut activity down. I've had years when I could drive my wheeler in the woods all winter. Other years, there can be 30" of snow before gun season is over in November. I've been very lucky. Somehow the guy in charge of federal lands in my area got replaced, and whoever took over really got on the stick and got to logging finally. I have thousands of acres of browse and cover coming into year 2 this spring. Gonna be unlimited food and winter cover for the next couple years. Then just cover.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Oh, winter in MN is a whole nother beast. A few things happen to get deer through a MN winter. If the snow gets deep, the deer will head to cedar swamps to overwinter. Those cedars can be exceptionally thick and provide good thermal cover, and help with the snow load.

When the snow gets deep, deer will continue to work their existing trails and keep them open. Trouble is, they don't have a lot of offramps, so they can still be killed easily by wolves and coyotes.

Food gets scarce. You can gauge how bad it is by what is getting browsed by the end of winter. If you see balsam fir getting browsed, you're going to have a massive die off. If you see desirable stump sprouts go untouched, you're swimming in winter chow, or your deer have left. Once December hits, deer metabolisms slow considerably and they don't eat or need to eat as much.

Some winters we don't get enough snow to shut activity down. I've had years when I could drive my wheeler in the woods all winter. Other years, there can be 30" of snow before gun season is over in November. I've been very lucky. Somehow the guy in charge of federal lands in my area got replaced, and whoever took over really got on the stick and got to logging finally. I have thousands of acres of browse and cover coming into year 2 this spring. Gonna be unlimited food and winter cover for the next couple years. Then just cover.

I've always been intrigued by how white-tailed deer are able to survive the cold northern winters, however, thinking about how the average deer in Georgia and Florida are so much smaller in body weight than the average deer in northern climes like Saskatchewan, the evidence would seem to show that heat is harder on deer than cold, or am I interpreting this wrong?

 

[MarkDarvin]

I've always been intrigued by how white-tailed deer are able to survive the cold northern winters, however, thinking about how the average deer in Georgia and Florida are so much smaller in body weight than the average deer in northern climes like Saskatchewan, the evidence would seem to show that heat is harder on deer than cold, or am I interpreting this wrong?

My guess would be larger bodied genetics were naturally selected to endure in the far north, and the little ones moved to Florida and Texas for the mild winters and lower taxes.

 

[George]

I've always been intrigued by how white-tailed deer are able to survive the cold northern winters, however, thinking about how the average deer in Georgia and Florida are so much smaller in body weight than the average deer in northern climes like Saskatchewan, the evidence would seem to show that heat is harder on deer than cold, or am I interpreting this wrong?

Bergam theory, larger bodies in cold climates. counterintuitive, but larger bodies have relatively less surface area against the cold.

G

 

[George]

Are you finished working with your forester and getting checks or is this a part of that? Do you do crop tree release by identifying a quality tree then cutting a circle around it? How big an area do you release?

I have finished all of my work and pay per my EQIP plan. There is nothing more that Forester Bill can do for me except get me into the forest stewardship program and nominate me landowner of the year in a few years of participation. This program is just for fun and recognition. I am also in a new contract, conservation stewardship program, for 5 years, as a reward for what I have done so far. I qualified for the minimum yearly flat rate of $4000.00. Per this contract year one, current year, I had to tend some roses. Year 2, I have to deaden a dozen or so 16" trees on the very top of my ridge. I'm working with the wildlife biologist on this one.

Bill and I have talked and I have explained my intentions and he is in support as long as I take it easy and stay in the contracted cutting time of year.

In my final tally I reduced basal area from 85 to 70. Tally trees per acre went from 165 to 114. My goal is to bring the whole canopy to around 50-60% by removing redundant and inferior timber and seed producers, mostly oak and hickory. I will probably drop more maples. I'm going to do this over the next years, not the next year. I'm basically just going to go on chainsaw walks and make a mess. More sun and more cover/food.

I don't have much timber value, I'm just trying to kill a good deer.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

I have finished all of my work and pay per my EQIP plan. There is nothing more that Forester Bill can do for me except get me into the forest stewardship program and nominate me landowner of the year in a few years of participation. This program is just for fun and recognition. I am also in a new contract, conservation stewardship program, for 5 years, as a reward for what I have done so far. I qualified for the minimum yearly flat rate of $4000.00. Per this contract year one, current year, I had to tend some roses. Year 2, I have to deaden a dozen or so 16" trees on the very top of my ridge. I'm working with the wildlife biologist on this one.

Bill and I have talked and I have explained my intentions and he is in support as long as I take it easy and stay in the contracted cutting time of year.

In my final tally I reduced basal area from 85 to 70. Tally trees per acre went from 165 to 114. My goal is to bring the whole canopy to around 50-60% by removing redundant and inferior timber and seed producers, mostly oak and hickory. I will probably drop more maples. I'm going to do this over the next years, not the next year. I'm basically just going to go on chainsaw walks and make a mess. More sun and more cover/food.

I don't have much timber value, I'm just trying to kill a good deer.

G

My habitat journey is very similar to yours, my goal also is to get sunlight to the ground while preserving and increasing acorn trees. I also did two EQUIP projects totaling 200 acres just like you did, however my big difference compared to yours is that I was able to have a logger come in and cut the 200 acres for wood chips and a few saw logs as part of the EQUIP project, essentially a "timber stand improvement" leaving only the best trees spaced every 100'.
A logging operation with 2-300 hp skidders, a 390 hp Tracked feller buncher, a log processor, a 1000 hp wood chipper, and 6 eighteen wheelers on the road full-time working for several months made more habitat for me then I could have made with my chainsaw in two lifetimes, and they paid me to do it, plus fixed up my roads for free. I'd say loggers probably make more whitetail habitat in the US every year than all of the other methods put together.
But I still have quite a few acres of land that are similar to yours, areas where there's nothing growing that any logger wants, and therefore I will need to go in and do a timer stand improvement by hand. In these areas I often do more of the random clusters thing, I make a half acre of really good habitat, then as that area thickens up, I do another beside it a year later, splitting up the work into sections while getting instant results.
What is the contracted cutting time of year for the state of Kentucky?

 

[Mennoniteman]

Got the "panel blind build" half finished, need trim, railings, windows, carpet, black paint on the inside yet, and an easy chair of course.
The biggest problem is that it's too muddy to get in right now. I drove back and quickly threw up the panels, then had to get out as the sun started thawing the frozen mud.

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The tree on the left blew over and hit this hunting blind dead center, I'm thankful that I wasn't inside.
I looked at that particular tree, and made a bad decision to let it stand for breakup cover, since those locust trees rarely blow over.
Well, maybe I'll stick it back together, or maybe I will replace it with a 360?
I did shoot a decent buck out of it several years.