Keystone Krops

[dogghr]

One of my latest (failed) experiments; I was trying to address the need for converting clover patches into more rye growing in the winter, because the clover fades in mid-December here, and rye usually has some green grazing available for most of our zone 6b winter, provided that the snow doesn't have it buried.
So early last September I was planting rye in a terminated oats field (this rye grew just fine) and, as an experiment I no-till drilled a few passes of rye into an adjacent 8" tall stand of ladino clover, so the seed was planted perfectly, at about a 1" depth in very good soil, with an aggressive plant like rye, and? NOT ONE SINGLE RYE STALK EMERGED! The clover apparently choked it out.
So I had this great epiphany, but alas, I'm no einstein. Back to the drawing board.

Thats odd as I overseed WR or WW into my perennial clover each fall and it does well. And I don't have one of them big fancy green things, just me atv spreader. Maybe common grains no like fancy equipment. Seriosly I am surprised they didn't take. Love the rig.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Thats odd as I overseed WR or WW into my perennial clover each fall and it does well. And I don't have one of them big fancy green things, just me atv spreader. Maybe common grains no like fancy equipment. Seriosly I am surprised they didn't take. Love the rig.

Do you mow before, after, or not at all when you overseed? I've done this before on heavily grazed clover and it worked. But this experiment was in a very thick, very tall stand of Regal Graze Ladino clover.

 

[dogghr]

No I don't fall mow my clovers but in all fairness the deer probably have them grazed under a foot tall so maybe that is my advantage. Not much acreage for me to foodplot so pressure is greater. I am so envious of that rig tho even if it would be impractical for my plots. Always enjoy the read, thanks for posting.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Do you mow before, after, or not at all when you overseed? I've done this before on heavily grazed clover and it worked. But this experiment was in a very thick, very tall stand of Regal Graze Ladino clover.

The ladino clover I've grown, I could absolutely see that being the case. Properly fed, that stuff gets thick and tall, and I could see it snuffing out small grains. That stuff can grow for a while in the shade, but it won't put down a root until it gets some sun.

 

[Mennoniteman]

The ladino clover I've grown, I could absolutely see that being the case. Properly fed, that stuff gets thick and tall, and I could see it snuffing out small grains. That stuff can grow for a while in the shade, but it won't put down a root until it gets some sun.

I wonder if the amount of sunshine needed to grow Ladino clover changes as you get further south? Clover is a cool season crop and in the hotter part of summer my fields do better in the shaded areas closer to the treeline. I agree that abundant sunshine is still an important requirement, I wouldn't bother seeding clover with less than 75% sunshine on the ground.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I wonder if the amount of sunshine needed to grow Ladino clover changes as you get further south? Clover is a cool season crop and in the hotter part of summer my fields do better in the shaded areas closer to the treeline. I agree that abundant sunshine is still an important requirement, I wouldn't bother seeding clover with less than 75% sunshine on the ground.

I've had great luck with white clover in nearly full shade. It still needs premium fertility to do it, but I don't fear shade anymore when it comes to white clover. Overseeding with anything is kind of a bust, but when grains are as cheap as they are, it still pays to try.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Storage Ideas; I save room in my tractor shed by putting 3 point equipment on car dollies, then I can roll around 1000 lb equipment with one finger, and roll it around to the back corners along the wall to free up space in the middle and in the front. Note; I got the extra heavy dollies because I heard on the lighter ones the castors just bend.

Summit racing Auto Dolly M998104 - Auto Dolly Car Dollies $86.99

Wheel Dollies, Car, Steel, Red, 2,500 lbs per Dolly, Pair

 

[Chainsaw]

Thats odd as I overseed WR or WW into my perennial clover each fall and it does well. And I don't have one of them big fancy green things, just me atv spreader. Maybe common grains no like fancy equipment. Seriosly I am surprised they didn't take. Love the rig.

We have experienced very poor rye germination here with year old seed whereas we see the same thing you have Dogghr with our fresh seed at least; it germinates and grows on the brush hog and the back of the pickup and even on the tractor axles. Is there any chance Mennoniteman that your seed was not fresh enough?

 

[Mennoniteman]

We have experienced very poor rye germination here with year old seed whereas we see the same thing you have Dogghr with our fresh seed at least; it germinates and grows on the brush hog and the back of the pickup and even on the tractor axles. Is there any chance Mennoniteman that your seed was not fresh enough?

It's possible that could have been a factor, when you buy seed you are taking the seed companies word for how fresh it is. But the same batch of seed grew ok in no-till where I had sprayed gly before planting. I blamed it on the tall thick clover choking it out.

 

[Mennoniteman]

My six grafted female persimmons from Chestnut Hill Orchards have all started strong. This is my first foray into persimmons, at this point they seem easy to grow, but that opinion could change very quickly.

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[Mennoniteman]

I'm planting a newly cleared plot for a friend, buckwheat for it's soil building value, red-ladino-crimson clover; because that's the long term goal for this plot, and annual ryegrass; because we need something growing right now.

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[Mennoniteman]

I'd heard that a local deer farmer had a pen full of deer escape, I was working close by on a friend's property and bumped into one of these deer, as noted by the red ear tag.

 

[Native Hunter]

My six grafted female persimmons from Chestnut Hill Orchards have all started strong. This is my first foray into persimmons, at this point they seem easy to grow, but that opinion could change very quickly.

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I like both the persimmon and the awesome food plot in the background.

 

[Mennoniteman]

This morning I set up a 360 hunting blind for a friend.

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[Mennoniteman]

2 yr old Transcendent Crabapple tree is bearing apples by the dozens, this little tree must have more than a hundred. If it seems like it's going to break down the tree I'll thin them. If someone wants to see instant results from an apple tree plant Transcendent Crabapples. I've read that they drop before deer season, I guess I'll find out.

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[Mennoniteman]

These funny looking rows are my latest experiment, I was trying to figure out which small grain grows the best in my soil type when planted in the spring right after the chance of frost is over to get something growing in my expired brassica fields.
I put dividers in my no-till drill seed box to make 3 sections and planted oats, wheat, and barley. The wheat and the barley are neck to neck, but the oats win by a mile.

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[Jon]

What are you plans after or prior to these plants reaching maturity? I'm interested in hearing how you cycle plants after the experiment.

 

[Mennoniteman]

What are you plans after or prior to these plants reaching maturity? I'm interested in hearing how you cycle plants after the experiment.

The early spring small grain planting is a soil builder/covercrop in preparation for fall and winter plots for deer. The straw generated provides the basis for a July throw-n-mow planting, or roll-n-drill planting of either brassica, late summer soybeans or some other fall plot combo such as oats and peas.
In the northeast deer food plots are usually focused on growing fall and winter food rather than early summer when there's already an abundance of deer food everywhere, but such fall and winter fields usually end up being empty the following spring with no planting planned until midsummer. Fallow fields are a magnet for weeds, and the soil isn't gaining anything, so small grain seed is a cheap way to fix this.
The oats when young are early spring grazing and letting oats go into grain heads later on also is a great starter feed for halfgrown turkey chicks.
My planting cycle somewhat follows the Lick Creek methods, with a little more randomness. Every field has about 1/3 permanent Ladino clover, this is the mainstay of what our deer like to eat, so this portion of our fields are bigger then the LC recommended 10%. The rest of the field rotates something like; spring grain,fall brassica, soybeans, fall rye, mid-summer brassica.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Cleaning up some invasives, before and after pictures. 2.5 oz of each per gallon of triclopyr, glyphosate, 2,4-D, and forestry dye. This mixture is potent for multi flora rose and barberry, the two species pictured.

 

[Chainsaw]

Excellent small grain test Mennoniteman! Findings are definitely obvious and conclusive that the oats beat our the other two. Was early deer browsing on either the barley or wheat a factor at all?

I appreciate your sharing of how you manage your habitat; your ideas combined with your experience are uniquely and directly goal related, helpful, and thought provoking. Your invasive eliminating mixture is one I'll surely be trying.