I shot a deer with a bow and hit high. It hit straight above the shoulder and slightly above middle ways of the body. It ran hard for about 40 yards and stopped. It stood there for about 20 minutes. Then it just run again about another 30-40 yards. It was wobbly when it ran but wouldn't go down. It stopped again and stood there for another 20 minutes. Then again it took off and I lost sight. I went to where it first stopped and found only a small puddle of blood. Not much considering how long he stood there. I looked the evening and couldn't find anything. Plan on going back tomorrow with help. I was just wondering what type of hit that may be and if it could be lethal.
High Shot On Deer
- Thread starter cbraves1
- Start date
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
It sounds like a No-man's-land hit. This is the area above the lungs and below the spine. You will often find a fat coating on the arrow with this hit. You may have been close enough to the spinal column to cause the wobble you saw. Depending on the specifics of the hit, this deer could easily survive and mend. You won't likely have any real blood trail to follow. A tracking dog may be helpful in case the deer did die.
Always make best efforts to recover a deer, regardless of what you observe about the impact. What we think we see is often wrong. Many times I've shot deer an thought I knew exactly how the arrow traveled through the deer, but after recovery, I found I was wrong.
Always make best efforts to recover a deer, regardless of what you observe about the impact. What we think we see is often wrong. Many times I've shot deer an thought I knew exactly how the arrow traveled through the deer, but after recovery, I found I was wrong.
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Sure there is George, especially as you get further back. Folks often think of the lungs as fully expanded as you see in pictures, but lings expand and contract in reality. The spine also articulates. It is possible to get an arrow through the deer without puncturing the lungs and without a disabling spine hit. A direct spine hit will drop a deer, but depending on broadhead orientation, it is possible to nick the spine. Spine shots can yield surprising results. I've seen deer with a glancing spine shot drop, spend some time kicking and then get up an run.
The wobbling when running is what makes me think the spine might be somewhat involved. When the lungs are deflated, there is plenty of room to get an arrow above them and not hit the spine at all.
I will still go give it a try to find him. I just hope if we don't find him that he'll make it.
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
Agree, no-man’s area is above the spine in the back straps. This has been discussed at length about a million times on all hunting platforms, and people always line up either north or south of the spine. I’m a Yankee I guess in that sense.
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KSQ2
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure I understand, did you hit the deer right above the shoulder, or in the middle of the body front to back? Or is that and entrance and exit? Those are two very different places. I agree with yoder, it is very difficult to know exactly where you hit a deer unless you have the shot on film, or you had a chance to get your glasses on him while he was standing there, assuming he was at angle you could see the entrance wound. You’re doing the right thing going back out today to look some more regardless. Good luck!
It hit straight up above the shoulder. He stood there and I could see the entrance clearly. I just have never seen a deer react that way before.
Deadeye
Well-Known Member
Way to many videos out there to prove that there is NOT a No Mans Land on a Deer.
The Spine actually drops much lower into the Body than many would believe and the so called No Mans Land is actually a shot ABOVE the spine through the Back Straps and it will not kill a Deer unless you get lucky and hit some artery.
To the Poster saying you hit above the Shoulder leaves many many possible outcomes depending on Your Height to the Deer's, The Angle of the Shot, and many other possibilities. That does not mean it's not dead.
A High Shot will RARELY leave much Blood as it will simply flow down into the body and will not exit until the Cavity has filled enough for it to flow out.
Keep Looking. Best Bet is get a Tracking Dog if they are available near you. If Not Grid Search, then Grid Search again.
The Spine actually drops much lower into the Body than many would believe and the so called No Mans Land is actually a shot ABOVE the spine through the Back Straps and it will not kill a Deer unless you get lucky and hit some artery.
To the Poster saying you hit above the Shoulder leaves many many possible outcomes depending on Your Height to the Deer's, The Angle of the Shot, and many other possibilities. That does not mean it's not dead.
A High Shot will RARELY leave much Blood as it will simply flow down into the body and will not exit until the Cavity has filled enough for it to flow out.
Keep Looking. Best Bet is get a Tracking Dog if they are available near you. If Not Grid Search, then Grid Search again.
George
Well-Known Member
Another monkey wrench to the discussion. In 2011 I shot a buck under the spine, he went down and crawled towards a fence. I got down to get my deer to find that he got up and ran off. The only blood that I could find was when he jump a fence and coughed up lung blood. The bullet went under the spine and through the top of 2 lungs. A year later when I shot him again I could see in the backstraps where the bullet went through. So what I am saying is that you can shoot under the spine and also through the back straps and lungs. The lung compartment is up against the spine. I guess what Yoder is saying is that when the lungs aren't fully inflated there is space?
G
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I beg to differ. I've had 3 of those high shots that did not drop the deer early in my bowhunting career. None of those deer were recovered. One of the three showed up months later on game cameras back to his normal haunts. You could clearly see the wound. I'm not saying the other two deer survived. I just don't know.
Yes, George. Most of the anatomy diagrams are a bit over simplified. Lungs have movement and you inhale and exhale. You can even do some damage to a lung without a full puncture and have a deer survive.
Deadeye is correct about minimal if any blood trails with high shots and blood pooling in the chest. This is more true when shooting from a ground blind or a low tree stand and longer distances. One big advantage you have with treestands and keeping shots at a shorter distance is the downward angle producing a lower exit wound. Low exit wounds are key to a good blood trail.
There are also lots of things we don't know about the situation. For example, the broadhead matters. Some guys use 2 blade broadheads because of the larger diameter opening with penetration. The issue here is that those two blades can open in any orientation. With a 2 dimensional cut through a deer, there is a lot that you can miss. Many years ago I used the large 2-bladed Vortex and realized this when processing deer. A 2-dimensional exit wound also plugs up much faster. I find that a smaller diameter 3-blade yields better results than a larger 2 blade..
If the OPs shot was high and forward, short of a direct spine shot, these deer almost always survive. I've found broadheads embedded in shoulder bone in a number of deer I've procesed.
Yes, George. Most of the anatomy diagrams are a bit over simplified. Lungs have movement and you inhale and exhale. You can even do some damage to a lung without a full puncture and have a deer survive.
Deadeye is correct about minimal if any blood trails with high shots and blood pooling in the chest. This is more true when shooting from a ground blind or a low tree stand and longer distances. One big advantage you have with treestands and keeping shots at a shorter distance is the downward angle producing a lower exit wound. Low exit wounds are key to a good blood trail.
There are also lots of things we don't know about the situation. For example, the broadhead matters. Some guys use 2 blade broadheads because of the larger diameter opening with penetration. The issue here is that those two blades can open in any orientation. With a 2 dimensional cut through a deer, there is a lot that you can miss. Many years ago I used the large 2-bladed Vortex and realized this when processing deer. A 2-dimensional exit wound also plugs up much faster. I find that a smaller diameter 3-blade yields better results than a larger 2 blade..
If the OPs shot was high and forward, short of a direct spine shot, these deer almost always survive. I've found broadheads embedded in shoulder bone in a number of deer I've procesed.
George
Well-Known Member
On that we can agree, we have a first time poster that says he hit a deer, we know nothing. "It hit straight above the shoulder and slightly above middle ways of the body" ?
G
Deadeye
Well-Known Member
I found this Great Video from a Tracker talking about High Shoulder Shots and the idea of No Mans Land.
Thing is most of these Trackers see more Deer Trails in ONE YEAR than many see in their entire lives. Not trying to be funny it's just a fact.
My Tracker's Group they often track up to 3-5 Deer in ONE DAY. In Florida-Georgia-Alabama- SC.
Anyways, it's an interesting video.
Thing is most of these Trackers see more Deer Trails in ONE YEAR than many see in their entire lives. Not trying to be funny it's just a fact.
My Tracker's Group they often track up to 3-5 Deer in ONE DAY. In Florida-Georgia-Alabama- SC.
Anyways, it's an interesting video.
Drycreek
Well-Known Member
I will only add this: I once arrowed a pronghorn too high. The East/West was great, but the North/South leaved a little to be desired. It was definitely below his spine. I watched him with binos after the shot giving me a dirty look. I was able to see each side of him after the shot and he had a little blood trail running down his hide on both sides. The next day he was chasing does as usual but having none of our decoying routine. His lungs might have been clipped up high, but the little blood found on the ground was not pink, frothy lung blood, I’ve seen it many times and it just looked like muscle blood. I’m not going to argue the “no man’s land” one way or the other, just telling you what I witnessed. 
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
I’m not arguing or doubting what you saw, I’m just curious how you knew the shot was underneath his spine without having the opportunity to dress him?I will only add this: I once arrowed a pronghorn too high. The East/West was great, but the North/South leaved a little to be desired. It was definitely below his spine. I watched him with binos after the shot giving me a dirty look. I was able to see each side of him after the shot and he had a little blood trail running down his hide on both sides. The next day he was chasing does as usual but having none of our decoying routine. His lungs might have been clipped up high, but the little blood found on the ground was not pink, frothy lung blood, I’ve seen it many times and it just looked like muscle blood. I’m not going to argue the “no man’s land” one way or the other, just telling you what I witnessed.
livinadream
New Member
Did you get a pass thru? Was the impact LOUD? I shot a deer high and forward one year, stopped in off side shoulder, im thinking more upper leg bone instead of blade. Deer reacted exactly as you described, ran about 50 yards, stood there for 2-3 minutes, did what is very similar to the "death wobble", then ran out of site like his butt was on fire. We jumped him 16 hours later and he didnt even seem sick, other than having a broken front leg. I would like to believe he lived, i never did find him, but never saw him again either. The deer im speaking of impact sounded like a bat hitting a tree. CRACK!!!
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Below is one of the best articles I have read on this subject.
This article quotes the following people and provides information about them:
Dr. Tim Lewis (a dentist and veteran bowhunter)
Dave Clausen (a retired veterinarian)
Doctor Alan Lazzara (consulting physician for Meateater)
Larry Gohlke (a tracker with 31 years experience on over 750 tracked deer)
Dr. Grant Woods (Growing Deer-TV)
Info from a study in 1977 on this subject from John Jeanneney
www.themeateater.com
This article quotes the following people and provides information about them:
Dr. Tim Lewis (a dentist and veteran bowhunter)
Dave Clausen (a retired veterinarian)
Doctor Alan Lazzara (consulting physician for Meateater)
Larry Gohlke (a tracker with 31 years experience on over 750 tracked deer)
Dr. Grant Woods (Growing Deer-TV)
Info from a study in 1977 on this subject from John Jeanneney
The Truth About “The Void” in a Deer’s Chest
No biologist, veterinarian, or medical professional believes the popular bowhunting claim that deer have dead space high in their chest. That void, it’s said, lets a broadhead pass through with little harm to the deer if it just happens to exhale as the arrow hits, supposedly opening the space...
No it didn't pass through. I did find my arrow though and it broke off about 6 inches of the tip. Another 3 inches or so had blood on it. So about 9 inches of penetration. I didn't really pay that much attention to the sound. I know it wasn't as loud as you're describing or I would have heard that. He also didn't seem to have any trouble walking on his front leg, He was more wobbly in the rear than the front. I am just watching for buzzards now and hoping he made it and will be fine.
