Semisane
Active Member
Yep - usually. Just like hunting apple trees, persimmon trees, bean fields, corn fields, oaks dropping acorns, or a lush food plot.
Georgia Baiting
- Thread starter THE LLC
- Start date
Yep - usually. Just like hunting apple trees, persimmon trees, bean fields, corn fields, oaks dropping acorns, or a lush food plot.
Triple C
Well-Known Member
Dang Tommy! Been out of town for most of week and come back to discover a baiting thread. As you know, there's been dozens of threads and literally thousands of replies arguing back and forth about changing the northern zone to the same as the southern zone in GA. I don't think I've chimed in on any of those threads but some have been entertaining to read. Personal opinion is I'm not in favor of it. But, it's here and we'll go on doing what we always do...planting plots, doing habitat stuff and now, prolly throw a feeder full of corn out somewhere for kicks and giggles.
Good point
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Baiting is about the same as crossbows and box blinds, at first we hate it, but after a while we come to realize that it's just another tool which excels in certain situations, but really isn't as big of an advantage as it's sometimes cracked up to be. Wildlife biologists spend a lot of time studying baiting, so they probably won't ask to get it approved for an area until they are sure that it meets their long-term goals for that area like they did in Pennsylvania, we had baiting approved for special regulations areas only in 2006, as an experiment for 3 years, then the program was dropped again, now it's legal again with a lot of weird restrictions. We thought it would make it easy to get big bucks but found out very quickly that it doesn't work that way. I learned the hard way that even with bait all the basic rules of hunting still apply, and if you ignore them your bait pile isn't going to produce that big buck you're dreaming about. I've tried it both ways and it's easier hunting without a bait pile because the deer are sooner apt to be moving in daylight searching for food, rather than just hitting your bait pile at night. I'm not in favor of baiting, but if legal baiting is unethical then every other habitat thing a hunter does is also unethical, such as a clearcut down below your stand to create browse, food plots, hinge cuts, mock scrapes, mineral licks, man-made water holes, buck sneak trails, logging roads, all scents, ozone generators, compound bows, camo clothing, deer carts, binoculars, etc. And if we start down this road won't we eventually come to a place where we decide hunting as a whole is unethical?
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THE LLC
Well-Known Member
And HOGS. That is one thing I don't have to deal with.
THE LLC
Well-Known Member
Problem is, ethics are not universal. What one considers ethical, another may not. "Ethics" is just a feel-good term that trying to impose on others will end you up in a place you don't want to be. (You being a generic term)
Semisane
Active Member
BigJ
Member
Thanks for clarifying the “you” haha
My two cents - I’m starting to love my tractor and chainsaw time just about as much a tree stand time. So if baiting becomes legal in PA I’ll still be doing what I do now. A good food plot strategy is going to produce way more food and better quality nutrition for deer than any feeder full of corn I could put out. Yes they love the stuff but so do a lot of other A-holes like coons haha. To each their own I guess. It always cracks me up in PA a week before our rifle season all the Wally World shelves sell out of the latest greatest apple acorn rage whitetail BBD cocaine crush. I bet if you were to ask all the folks that bought that garbage they ate a lot of tag sandwiches but baiting is illegal in PA
. I guess in my seven years of doing this I found there’s a little more to it than dumping a bag on the ground and a lot more enjoyment in putting the work in.
dogghr
Well-Known Member
I don’t know if baiting were ever illegal in WV. But I never saw it till the late 90s which is odd as that 10 yrs we had enough deer to walk on.
One of the things I hate about it is that most hunters are obligated to the stand that has bait. So they spend an entire season staring at the same patch of wood. I like that I now have the delima of which stand I’m headed too. But then I am not as deer or horn porn hungry as I used to be. It is very difficult to hunt wo baiting in some areas including my big woods so I get it’s need for some people especially when they don’t own land.
It does ruin hunting learning abilities. A kid hunts from a blind at 20 yds and kills their deer. Do they know how to find a sweet white oak, or a junction of trails , or edges created by typography or flora, and so forth?? All of these are the fun of hunting.
I see no diff in an apple tree, corn field, alafal , or my prime white oak. I’m using all to my advantage. But I’ll tell you this , you can drop me blindfolded anywhere in NA and it will find a place to see deer. Not because I’m a great hunter , but because I’m lucky to have learned and taught myself the way of the woods. That’s a huge connection that is vacant for most hunters and in part is the reason for the slow demise of the hunting population.
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One of the things I hate about it is that most hunters are obligated to the stand that has bait. So they spend an entire season staring at the same patch of wood. I like that I now have the delima of which stand I’m headed too. But then I am not as deer or horn porn hungry as I used to be. It is very difficult to hunt wo baiting in some areas including my big woods so I get it’s need for some people especially when they don’t own land.
It does ruin hunting learning abilities. A kid hunts from a blind at 20 yds and kills their deer. Do they know how to find a sweet white oak, or a junction of trails , or edges created by typography or flora, and so forth?? All of these are the fun of hunting.
I see no diff in an apple tree, corn field, alafal , or my prime white oak. I’m using all to my advantage. But I’ll tell you this , you can drop me blindfolded anywhere in NA and it will find a place to see deer. Not because I’m a great hunter , but because I’m lucky to have learned and taught myself the way of the woods. That’s a huge connection that is vacant for most hunters and in part is the reason for the slow demise of the hunting population.
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rlb165
Member
Baiting for deer has been legal here in KY since before I started hunting. Probably for that reason, I've never felt like it was an ethics issue. It's just another tool, not so different (to me) than all of the other habitat-manipulation techniques that we discuss here.
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Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
(Ethics: the discipline dealing with what is good and bad) Good and bad are universal i.e. killing people is always bad, feeding the hungry is always good. Bad is always bad anywhere in the world. Where people disagree on something like baiting, does it violate the standards of fair chase? Is it bad, and if so, what degree of bad, a little bad, or a big bad.
Boone& Crocketts "Fair Chase" standards say this; When in the field, the initial question for every fair chase hunter is whether the animal has a reasonable opportunity to elude the hunter. If the animal does not, the hunt can never be "fair chase".
The Pope& Young Clubs' rules declare that "fair chase" shall not involve the taking of game under the following conditions:
Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice.From any power vehicle or power boat.By "jacklighting" or shining at night.By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons.While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures.By the use of any power vehicle or power boat for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground.By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached. It's interesting that neither of these clubs mention baiting as being unethical. Is part of the reason for this because hunting over bait is very similar to trapping as far as the animal's reasonable chance to escape? Therefore, to call the one unethical would be to call the other unethical?
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rlb165
Member
Turkish, here are my responses to some of the points you made.
I want to bait because, in my experience, it helps us see more deer, especially in conjunction with foodplots, waterholes, mineral sites, mineral stumps, hingecut bedding areas, mock scrapes and individual deer beds.
Most of my hunting for the last decade has been with our kids and a handful of their friends. I wouldn't trade the memories I've made hunting with these kids for anything. All hunts have been by food plots with corn scattered around in them. That is the only way I've found to see enough deer to keep young people interested enough to put their phones down for any length of time. In those moments that I'm looking over the shoulder of a kid about to get their first deer, I can't believe I get to be me.
I defend baiting so fiercely for the same reason I defend our 2nd amendment rights-because it surprises me every time someone who doesn't want to do or have something complains about me doing or having it.
In the podcast story-do you think the people who climbed the mountain felt compelled to tell those who drove up the mountain that their experience was cheapened because they didn't climb? Do you think they were opposed to people driving instead of climbing?
As far as I know, whatever negatives you're talking about haven't happened here.
If there were ever a mountain climbing message board thread weighing the pros and cons of building the road up the mountain, he may have had something to say.
With that said, if I have to throw some corn out for my little man to have fun hunting (he’s 4 right now), I’ll probably do it. So I understand your points of view. Well, all of them but equating your “right” to bait with something written in the Bill of Rights — that’s a major stretch, respectfully.
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In GENERAL - but not always - it seems a lot of folks that hunt where there are a lot of deer will have a different perspective from a lot of folks who hunt where there arent many deer. People with a lot of deer will generally see a good many deer - finding it unnecessary to use bait to see deer. Folks who have very few deer are more apt to engage in whatever activities they can to see a deer every now and then - especially when it comes to hunting with kids or grand kids. Many folks have a tendency to think what they have is what everyone has and what they do is what everyone needs to do.
Should someone feel cheated if they shoot a deer with a compound or crossbow as opposed to shooting it with a recurve? Do we have to work the foodplots up by hand, no rr seeds, not use herbicides, no soil tests or fertilizer (just manure), or is there a certain age of tractor or implement one must use to get the full experience rather than just taking the road to the top and enjoying something that makes you happy.
rlb165
Member
Yeah, I'm STILL trying to come up with a way to word that where it doesn't sound so dramatic. How about "I wouldn't have to defend baiting if people didn't attack baiting"....? Either way, I appreciate your respectful tone.
With or without corn, I hope you enjoy every second hunting with your little man. Those innocent years go by way too fast.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I'm with you. I'm somewhat opposed to baiting for myself, (although I've done it already) but defend it because it's legal for some hunters and we hunters need to stick up for each other.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
To me, it couldn't be more different.
That being said, everything we do is augmenting the almighty "pure hunt." The world has changed. Baiting, plotting, bedding, apple trees, doe pee, ozone generators, enclosed blinds, scent killer spray, better camo, better scopes etc. It's all changed from the days of dropping a rock on the head of a doe from a tree by a cave man. It's all the same, and it's all different.
That being said, everything we do is augmenting the almighty "pure hunt." The world has changed. Baiting, plotting, bedding, apple trees, doe pee, ozone generators, enclosed blinds, scent killer spray, better camo, better scopes etc. It's all changed from the days of dropping a rock on the head of a doe from a tree by a cave man. It's all the same, and it's all different.
