Egyptian wheat....mowing.....planned grazing

Want to add a couple articles from Progressive Cattleman about the work UT is doing with native warm season grasses before moving on to other things...lots of establishment stuff etc in there. One comment worth restating.....a field planted to one or a few native warm season grasses is in no way the same as a field of native rangeland with multiples of specie diversity and forage classes. Those in academia who discredit grazing native grasses and try to transfer that same mentality to grazing native rangeland have no clue about the natural world nor productivity of rangeland at practically no cost! Further, setting up anything less than an 8 paddock rotation on planted native grass will have the same pitfalls as the same paddock schedule on native rangeland....ie a loss in flexibility of management which may damage the whole system long term....the ability to have a highly variable recovery period is a needed tool for any forage, especially native forages!

Straight Talk on Native Grass Forages: Part 1
http://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/grazing/7439-straight-talk-on-native-grass-forages

Straight Talk on Native Grass Forages: Part 2
http://www.progressivecattle.com/topics/grazing/7482-straight-talk-on-native-grass-forages-part-2

Just graze and observe,
Doug

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dgallow said:
It is not a frustration with any particular neighbor...some have cattle some don't....some of us talk and some don't....none of us are in a feud or quarrel. If one will read a little deeper into that post, then you will understand I am more disheartened with land transferring ownership or land abandonment from ag use in general...trying to raise a little awareness in the younger readers. There is a vast majority of folks out there today who simply don't care about anything more than information stated on a deed and there is an equal share who want to use the land for recreation but certainly will do no more than entitle themselves to that gift. There can really be some bad things happen when one is no more involved than owning 'paper land'. My wife should write a book on 'Avoiding Issues with Titles and Deed!' Take this example, a house and out buildings were built on a small parcel 10 years ago....an adjoining neighbor is being foreclosed upon....turns out the house and out buildings actually reside upon the neighbors land....the only land which the homedwellers truly own in their front yard! Wonder what the stress is like at that dinner table!

We have also gotten away from the concept of 'neighbors helping neighbors'...and we have gotten away from actually 'seeing' every part of that we supposedly own (land)...or...co-own (perimeter fencing)!

These observations point toward a moral decay of current society. A perimeter fence should be viewed as 'our asset' not 'owner A' or 'owner B' asset based upon how each uses their parcel. IF each party were to take a little time to maintain 'our asset', then the world would turn a little easier (especially the on more active on his parcel). Unfortunately what happens most cases, is that a shared asset is attended by no one....like other metal assets unmaintained, it then rusts and rots....in the end leaving no asset of value instead a debt to be inherited! We certainly don't need gov't intervention in the form of laws to spell out common sense...or do we? Do we want to pass down debt as inheritance? Do we not want to pass down the knowledge of 'fence repair'? Do many other folks really not see the true land degradation which occurs when livestock are removed? Who would want to lease and put livestock on land where he has to build fence and repair ponds? What happens to land lease value in that case?

The 1972 fence was kinda like Johnny mentions.....families were out there, neighbors were helping neighbors, and the logical access route for the new fence was on the neighbors side. That is why the wire is on the neighbors side of the posts!

I spend time fixing fence when repair is needed....that usually provides ample time to reflect upon deeper issues of land ownership!

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Click to expand...
If you have the cattle the wire should be on your side of the post...cattle pushing against the post is much stronger than pushing against the clips...

I have lived on and owned the land at Home 10 for 52 years. We passively spoke to neighbors not kin to us and were cordial but I don't ever recall us getting together for a barn raising...

My parents left me no debt on the 25 acres there unless you consider yearly property taxes as debt and my children will be left with no debt on that 25 or the 90 here... They can do what they wish with the appreciating assets they will have. I am hoping they like the land as much as I do and the grandsons will hunt and maintain it after we are gone but ultimately it will be up to them...
 
I was almost sweating as I read you fence repair dialogue. LOL . Texas tool pretty cool and looks handy. Never used one. As for neighbors, I guess we are lucky here as no doubt a tree on fence seen by someone especially knowing cattle were present, would've meant fixing fence probably or a least call to owner. I stopped one morning in the dark on way to hunt to get some guys horse that had broke loose and was standing on roadside in the dark. I didn't know the dude, but I was sure it was his horse. Got her back in, quick fence repair, went to hunt smelling like sweat. He would've done the same for me. I can be working at the farm, and neighbors driving by will stop to help or at least chat for a while and even bring food. Lucky in that regard.
As for barbed wire, I have some of that 80 yo stuff on farm and I think it will last another 80 Tough stuff. And on ridge side, have several hundred yards of still standing chestnut split rail fence. It's showing wear.
Hows your new neighbors that were building when I was there near your edge? Work out ok? Need help with fence let me know, I need excuse to get out of office for a day or 10. Stay cool and use that pool. Place looks great.
 
OkieKubota said:
If you have the cattle the wire should be on your side of the post...cattle pushing against the post is much stronger than pushing against the clips...

I have lived on and owned the land at Home 10 for 52 years. We passively spoke to neighbors not kin to us and were cordial but I don't ever recall us getting together for a barn raising...

My parents left me no debt on the 25 acres there unless you consider yearly property taxes as debt and my children will be left with no debt on that 25 or the 90 here... They can do what they wish with the appreciating assets they will have. I am hoping they like the land as much as I do and the grandsons will hunt and maintain it after we are gone but ultimately it will be up to them...
Click to expand...

In 1972 there were cattle on my place....and....cattle on all 7 adjoining neighbors. By you logic, posts should then alternate the way they face so that cows on either side would have equal push against the fence! Honestly no one would build a fence that way. So....it goes back to the point of the fence was laid according to the access path and wires ended up on neighbors side. If putting in new fence then the wire goes on my side....if rewiring old old fence, new wire goes where the old wire faced. Good 5 strand sharp high tensile barbed will stop the majority of pushing....except Bulls at times.

Debt referred here is expense a new owner may have to incur with land acquisition. Not debt as in a loan. But could be a withdrawal on an operating loan if one don't have cash!

There are 5,280 feet in one mile...4 mile of fence per 640 ac section. Materials and labor and Dozer fee to install a new 5 strand barbed wire fence is ~$3 per foot.....total expense is $63,000 or $100 per acre. That money will go on the debt not income side of balance sheet. Thus, once installed the fence becomes a depreciating asset ( consult CPA there). The better an old fence is maintained, the longer that asset life and dilution of total cost with time!

If the new fence you built and paid for is not a debt, then what is it? Did you not inherit that debt with the land purchase? Yes you did!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well since only 1 neighbor bordering either parcel has cattle and we will never have any livestock then if the fence falls down in most areas it won't be a big deal. I don't have a mile section so I can handle any fencing and have and didn't feel financially stressed doing it.

If you are the guy building the fence in unfenced territory put the fencing on your own side of the post so you can fix as needed without disturbing neighbors property and trees...it's the neighborly thing to do...

BTW the fencing appreciated our property value by more than the cost so I don't consider it a debt.
 
dogghr said:
I was almost sweating as I read you fence repair dialogue. LOL . Texas tool pretty cool and looks handy. Never used one. As for neighbors, I guess we are lucky here as no doubt a tree on fence seen by someone especially knowing cattle were present, would've meant fixing fence probably or a least call to owner. I stopped one morning in the dark on way to hunt to get some guys horse that had broke loose and was standing on roadside in the dark. I didn't know the dude, but I was sure it was his horse. Got her back in, quick fence repair, went to hunt smelling like sweat. He would've done the same for me. I can be working at the farm, and neighbors driving by will stop to help or at least chat for a while and even bring food. Lucky in that regard.
As for barbed wire, I have some of that 80 yo stuff on farm and I think it will last another 80 Tough stuff. And on ridge side, have several hundred yards of still standing chestnut split rail fence. It's showing wear.
Hows your new neighbors that were building when I was there near your edge? Work out ok? Need help with fence let me know, I need excuse to get out of office for a day or 10. Stay cool and use that pool. Place looks great.
Click to expand...

Well,...you might just want to just pack up and move here cuz fence checking or work is daily....either checking barbed or hot string. Drag yourself over here whenever you want...always welcome.....if my boy is at work go sit in his tree!

New neighbor is real good....got some cash to spend and building family cabins this spring....been quiet there lately....his wife works with my boy....burned most of his place this spring but best I can tell they were low intensity fire on high humidity days...not a lot of impact. He was afraid to burn a 15 ac triangle joining me so I said either doze the rough part of fence on his side and light it or wait and we will burn it with mine in 2 yrs. he has the better fire guard around his 15 so that will work well for both of us long term logistics. We talked several times on the phone late winter when he was burning.

I've fixed some neighbors fence on the road like that or made a phone call to another friend who does the same. Actually helped a neighbor fix another neighbors fence about 10:30 on night last month. I've also watched leasee drive by his leased place and not touch a downed wire. Takes all kinds to make the world go round...and down here we have all kinds! I think the motto here is don't spend your dollar until all attempts are made to make a neighbor spend his dollar first!




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Well....time to move beyond the social issues of fencing. From time to time, I will post fencing tips.

Finally found time last week to get destination plots planted.....one half was impacted enough by cattle that the cover crop was terminated upon drilling.....the other had substantial regrowth after grazing and needed the roller/sprayer after drilling....the catch there being apple cider vinegar with surfactant replaced herbicide...stay tuned next week as results reveal themselves and time allows discussion!

I suspect many of you have watched this PBS documentary? Listen closely and you will understand how we create conditions for some non-native plant species to thrive....and...how fire alone can change a wooded landscape. It is important when planting mixed specie forages/cover crops that you have a basic understanding of the means which plants communicate and defend themselves!

What Plants Talk About (Full Documentary)
 
dgallow said:
Materials and labor and Dozer fee to install a new 5 strand barbed wire fence is ~$3 per foot.....total expense is $63,000 or $100 per acre.
Click to expand...


80% of my place is unfenced. I need to get some built. Never really priced fencing before, gonna have to do a bit at a time...or get a loan.
 
We'll I'll be. It's happening. There is now a book about mob grazing and soil restoration in, yes in Alabama. Dr Allen Williams along with Teddy Gentry ( of country group Alabama fame) have written " Before you have a Cow". For review of it in alabama coop magazine and of course they advertised all sorts of electric fencing!
 
deer patch said:
Patiently waiting on the apple cider vinegar post.

How's the grandpup?
Click to expand...

Growing and playing....making all kind of sounds and trying to get his feet to his mouth.

FIL was admitted to hospital at Talihina Fri and they called in family Sat noon....then he sat up and was like normal again....a true Jesus thing! He has COPD late stage.....need prayers. Spent most time with my wife. Never made it to plots. Planted some small areas, ran new string and moved cows...that are up free time. Rain moved east and we only had 0.1" by Sun PM. Maybe 0.2" Sun night.


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Prayer for you FIL. COPD, terrible stuff!

Just watched ' What Plants Talk About' on the big screen. Absolutely fascinating...though it shouldn't be. Nature exceeds imagination every time. Very cool
 
lakngulf said:
We'll I'll be. It's happening. There is now a book about mob grazing and soil restoration in, yes in Alabama. Dr Allen Williams along with Teddy Gentry ( of country group Alabama fame) have written " Before you have a Cow". For review of it in alabama coop magazine and of course they advertised all sorts of electric fencing!
Click to expand...

Allen has been doing adaptive grazing on his farm in MS last 6 years. Will probably get Teddy to sign a copy when I go down there soon (Albertville area)! We are on a tight schedule those few days...mainly wanting to make connections with south poll breeders. How far away are you away?
 
I grew up just a few miles outside of Albertville…..Most of my family is still around there. My FIL and my Uncle are both poultry growers in that area. My wife's grandparents were poultry farmers as well as her aunt and uncle. My FIL also has a good business cleaning the litter out of houses and spreading it on pastures….You're not gonna like the habitat around there at all. :D I’m in south Alabama. I moved to attend Auburn and never went back home


Hope all is well with your FIL…..
 
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dgallow said:
Allen has been doing adaptive grazing on his farm in MS last 6 years. Will probably get Teddy to sign a copy when I go down there soon (Albertville area)! We are on a tight schedule those few days...mainly wanting to make connections with south poll breeders. How far away are you away?
Click to expand...
Not real close. I am in Gadsden some and that is a little closer.
 
Prayers sent. Has to be very stressful on the wife. If you need anything just let me know.

Good to here about the grandpup. He will be up and running before you know it.

I got good news today. I got the promotion at work. So thanks for your prayers awhile back.
 
dgallow said:
Growing and playing....making all kind of sounds and trying to get his feet to his mouth.

FIL was admitted to hospital at Talihina Fri and they called in family Sat noon....then he sat up and was like normal again....a true Jesus thing! He has COPD late stage.....need prayers. Spent most time with my wife. Never made it to plots. Planted some small areas, ran new string and moved cows...that are up free time. Rain moved east and we only had 0.1" by Sun PM. Maybe 0.2" Sun night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Heck I'm usually just happy to be able to see my feet much less get them to my mouth. I know you are enjoying that grand pup. Hope everything goes well with FIL. All that is stressful on everyone for sure. They are lucky to have you there for support. He sounds like my dad, cat with nine+ lives. Prayers.
 
Best wishes with your FIL. Your wife will need you more than ever in a time like this.
I'm curious about your "apple cider vinegar with surfactant" spray. I hope it works, it's something I would try in a heartbeat to help get rid of other chemicals.
 
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