Doe Factory....

[David]

what ever term is commonly used, i dont know, but i often hear the term "doe factory".

Basically i get nothing but does and young bucks on camera all summer and into the season. When i say young bucks, i really mean 1.5 year olds. i am sure i could do a better job rotating cameras, and i am sure i have a few 2.5 year olds roaming my woods, but i really don't see any on camera or from the stand. Of course this is a positive thing during the rut. Last year was the same story. Starting late October i counted 5 mature bucks on camera, i had never seen them before. Its not a deer density issue, as I am very satisfied with the number of does and young bucks i have.

so 3 questions

Anyone else feel like they have a doe factory?

Does this mean that my September and early October hunts are going to be nothing but doe hunts?

From a habitat point of view can i flip this?

 

[T-Max]

I'm chiming in mostly to listen to what others have to say. I have a very similar situation. I could probably hold off on placing cameras until late October if I wanted, because I just end up burning through batteries while getting thousands of pictures of does and yearling bucks, but just like clockwork every year I start to get a parade of mature bucks come late October. I have hunted September and early October like you said, only to see those same does and small bucks.

 

[Jeff H]

I'm in the same boat and have been for years. It's frustrating and I'm not sure how to "flip it". Last year during the first week of November I sat on the far south end of my property and watched 7 bucks that I'd never seen before coming north to my Doe Factory. That was just a morning sit. My neighbors across the road to the East have several 10 pointers on camera. All I get are does and 1.5 yr old bucks. My place has everything they need: thick cover, food and water. This year I'm going to try to kill as many does as possible but I'm not sure I can make a dent. Maybe my strategy is all wrong I don't know but I hope someone chimes in with some ideas.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Same thing here... Nothing special shows up until the leaves are falling. Then it's countless bucks until January


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[SwampCat]

I own a long, slender, 280 acres. I have a couple places on it I get lots of buck pictures this time of year - including older bucks. There are a couple of places all I get is doe and fawn pictures. I have a mineral block where I got hundreds of buck pictures during the month of august and not a single doe picture - even though I often saw does only 100 yards away. When the bucks lost their velvet, they quit using the minerals, and since then, all I get is doe and fawn pictures - even though I see bucks almost daily in that area. When the bucks start feeling it in a few weeks they will disperse and set up territories where there are now no bucks. I would bet those bigger bucks are close - just not at your camera location.

 

[Jeff H]

Same thing here... Nothing special shows up until the leaves are falling. Then it's countless bucks until January


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I get a week or two of bucks. That's it.

I own a long, slender, 280 acres. I have a couple places on it I get lots of buck pictures this time of year - including older bucks. There are a couple of places all I get is doe and fawn pictures. I have a mineral block where I got hundreds of buck pictures during the month of august and not a single doe picture - even though I often saw does only 100 yards away. When the bucks lost their velvet, they quit using the minerals, and since then, all I get is doe and fawn pictures - even though I see bucks almost daily in that area. When the bucks start feeling it in a few weeks they will disperse and set up territories where there are now no bucks. I would bet those bigger bucks are close - just not at your camera location.

Swamp, are you able to identify any differences in those areas that hold bucks early? Food, cover, pressure, landscape?

 

[g squared 23]

Ok...hold bucks during a period where they are primarily nocturnal so you can get their pictures at night, or have them chase your does during the main period that they move diurnally and you have a good chance to kill them.

So...what's the problem??


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[Jeff H]

Ok...hold bucks during a period where they are primarily nocturnal so you can get their pictures at night, or have them chase your does during the main period that they move diurnally and you have a good chance to kill them.

So...what's the problem??


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Are you suggesting that all late summer/early Fall bucks are nocturnal ?
My problems is I'd like to shoot a nice buck on my property and like to hunt for more than 1 week per season.

 

[Baker]

Bucks and does have different home ranges in the summer. Bucks break off to bachelor groups and does split off to their own territory for fawning. About the only overlap is over food. Historically on my farm I have observed buck groups in the same place each summer with does in their place as well. Why these specific spots are chosen I don't know. Come hard antler, the bachelor groups start breaking up and its as if someone shuffled a deck of cards. There is a complete restructuring of buck locations. Add the rut into that and any buck is likely to show up anywhere.

If you have small property you are only seeing a very small part of the puzzle. I do not think it is a habitat issue though I have always heard that does get the best habitat available for fawn raising. may be anecdotal.I can tell no difference as to why the bucks are where they are and the does are in their spot. Is interesting to me though that the spots tend to be the same every year. In the end, summer doesn't matter. It's what happens fall and winter that determines hunter success.

 

[j-bird]

what ever term is commonly used, i dont know, but i often hear the term "doe factory".

Basically i get nothing but does and young bucks on camera all summer and into the season. When i say young bucks, i really mean 1.5 year olds. i am sure i could do a better job rotating cameras, and i am sure i have a few 2.5 year olds roaming my woods, but i really don't see any on camera or from the stand. Of course this is a positive thing during the rut. Last year was the same story. Starting late October i counted 5 mature bucks on camera, i had never seen them before. Its not a deer density issue, as I am very satisfied with the number of does and young bucks i have.

so 3 questions

Anyone else feel like they have a doe factory?

Does this mean that my September and early October hunts are going to be nothing but doe hunts?

From a habitat point of view can i flip this?

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. So to answer your questions....

#1 - Yes - I feel like I have a "doe factory" - I have simply embraced it and try to work with what I have....
#2 - In my case....Yes. I found that early season hunting results in nothing but does and young bucks and educating them while waiting for something better. Now I don't even hunt unless promoted by a cold front until roughly Halloween.
#3 - you can in my opinion.....but it may not be an easy of quick road to fix.....

 

[possum]

I got same situation on my place. Lots of does from Feb-sept. Lots of does+ lots of bucks oct-Jan.

Another small property I hunt I have several monster bucks on camera all summer but every year about oct 1st they disappear.

I figure I could increase the summer Buck presence on the first property mentioned by killing a ton of does but that certainly wouldn't increase bucks during season. So like others said, embrace it.

I bow hunt on the doe property if I want an easy doe for the freezer. I bow hunt the other property if I want a chance at a nice buck. The rest of season I only hunt my doe factory.

 

[g squared 23]

Are you suggesting that all late summer/early Fall bucks are nocturnal ?
My problems is I'd like to shoot a nice buck on my property and like to hunt for more than 1 week per season.

I'm saying they are GENERALLY more nocturnal in the early part of the season in the "real world". On zero pressure huge farms/ranches (the setting for hunting videos), you might see a monster walk out to a food plot. On most of our real world farms, they move very little during daylight during the early season. You're better off possessing the live bait, and hunting travel routes on the way to the doe bedding areas that you seem to have in abundance, waiting for those biguns to check them during daylight.

If you want to hunt and actually kill an early season big buck, you need to know exactly where he beds, and hunt that bedding area, setting up as close as possible without bumping him. These are normally "one and done" hunts, where you hunt him once and then you hunt a different bed. Because most of us don't have large enough properties to harbor so many big buck beds and can't afford to be this aggressive for fear of burning our small acreage out, this early season hunting is best attempted on public land where bumping deer out of the area isn't such a big deal.

These aren't my theories. These tactics have been used and proven by hunters much better than me:

https://www.amazon.com/Hill-Country-Bucks-Blood-Brothers/dp/B002E6SNU2

Disclaimer: i have no financial interest with these guys, i just respect their system. My brother has killed bucks on public land 3 out of the last 4 years.


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[Doe Shooter]

Bucks and does have different home ranges in the summer. Bucks break off to bachelor groups and does split off to their own territory for fawning. About the only overlap is over food. Historically on my farm I have observed buck groups in the same place each summer with does in their place as well. Why these specific spots are chosen I don't know. Come hard antler, the bachelor groups start breaking up and its as if someone shuffled a deck of cards. There is a complete restructuring of buck locations. Add the rut into that and any buck is likely to show up anywhere.

If you have small property you are only seeing a very small part of the puzzle. I do not think it is a habitat issue though I have always heard that does get the best habitat available for fawn raising. may be anecdotal.I can tell no difference as to why the bucks are where they are and the does are in their spot. Is interesting to me though that the spots tend to be the same every year. In the end, summer doesn't matter. It's what happens fall and winter that determines hunter success.

There is no question in my mind that does take the best habitat by force. The antler advantage only exists for a small portion of the year. Two does will kick a bucks butt after the rut, and they do hang together all year long. Having hunted the same place 25 years ,before we had the herd collapse,we were over run with does.Since the 50's the doe was the queen of the woods,and was protected. Permits were liberalized and we used them to full effect. The best years for buck success came the year after hammering 20 plus does off the farm. If you got that many deer start shooting and don't stop. If a buck does not have to go 50 yards to find a doe ,they don't rub,scape or travel , fight, cause there's no need to fight. I've been there. Our herd is rebuilding and it's the best it's been in some time because we are not over run with does.

 

[j-bird]

I want to expand upon my responses to the questions.....can you change a doe factory into a buck factory? Yes - I think you can.....BUT, I think it will be very difficult to accomplish, and maybe even nearly impossible. What I have seen on my place is bucks wanted elevated wooded bedding away from other deer and as far from other disturbances as possible. Does and young bucks are very different. They will bed in nearly minimal cover, in pretty close proximity to other deer and the occasional intrusion isn't a big deal. So your property and how it lays and the cover types and the depth of cover and the like tend to be fairly fixed and constant as such changing that to appeal to one over the other could be a lot more difficult to do. Can I reduce the food availability and associated doe bedding to say potentially a neighbors place....probably, but then I need to make that food source into cover of some sort, possibly spend money to convert a crop field and loose the income potential of doing so. Can I create elevated locations with a suitable view or wind directions.....maybe, you can fill the grand canyon with the Rockies if you really have the resources. Can I eliminate all disturbances from my property.....I can, but it reduces my enjoyment of the property.

As such.....I have a doe factory. Lots of food, minimal depth of cover and I'm very active on the property.....as such I have very little to offer a mature buck.......except for girls when the time is right.

As such, I alter my hunting and even plotting patterns around that idea. My place is a travel network between larger blocks of cover that without significant changes I simply will NEVER be able to compete with. Embrace the limitations. Is it fun to consider you have to wait to get your swing at Mr. Big? No. But that is the reality of it. I don't hunt early season to reduce educating the resident deer that I am not interested in harvesting. I essentially use them as "bait" later in the year. I target late season foods for my plots to pull as many female mouths to me as possible. I live in farm country so summertime forage is not an issue. I keep some smaller clover plots and focus my annuals on corn and soybean for the grain and cereal grain and brassica. I try to plant mast trees to drop as late as possible AND expand as much cover as I can.

This idea of embracing the fact that I have a doe factory and trying to work with what I have and not against it has led to more success on more mature deer. They are not monsters, but 3,4 and maybe 5 year old deer. I don't grow these deer....I know that. But instead I have a year long plan to target them when they are most after the one thing I do have!

 

[Kabic]

I'm saying they are GENERALLY more nocturnal in the early part of the season in the "real world". On zero pressure huge farms/ranches (the setting for hunting videos), you might see a monster walk out to a food plot. On most of our real world farms, they move very little during daylight during the early season. You're better off possessing the live bait, and hunting travel routes on the way to the doe bedding areas that you seem to have in abundance, waiting for those biguns to check them during daylight.

If you want to hunt and actually kill an early season big buck, you need to know exactly where he beds, and hunt that bedding area, setting up as close as possible without bumping him. These are normally "one and done" hunts, where you hunt him once and then you hunt a different bed. Because most of us don't have large enough properties to harbor so many big buck beds and can't afford to be this aggressive for fear of burning our small acreage out, this early season hunting is best attempted on public land where bumping deer out of the area isn't such a big deal.

These aren't my theories. These tactics have been used and proven by hunters much better than me:

https://www.amazon.com/Hill-Country-Bucks-Blood-Brothers/dp/B002E6SNU2

Disclaimer: i have no financial interest with these guys, i just respect their system. My brother has killed bucks on public land 3 out of the last 4 years.


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Are you a member of Dan's forum thehuntingbeast.com? I do more reading there than posting there. It is definitely a different philosophy, but Dan's huge wall of big bucks is hard to argue with.

 

[SwampCat]

I get a week or two of bucks. That's it.


Swamp, are you able to identify any differences in those areas that hold bucks early? Food, cover, pressure, landscape?

I have an eagle seed bean field bucks and does share. I have an arrowleaf clover plot the does and fawns claim as there own. I have a two acre plot of durana clover the bucks have lived in all summer with rarely a doe in the picture. Then, I have a weedy semi-open native pecan grove the does used for fawning cover and rarely does a buck venture in there. If I had to say, the does tend to stay more towards the cover with their fawns and the bucks concentrate on food.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Very easy to do

Stop planting summer forage. Focus on only providing best food possible during hunting season

I cut my summer population in half by getting rid of clover plots. My goal is to run out of food about March when winter breaks. Hope the deer migrate off the farm and stay away till August

 

[Gravel Road]

Very rarely is there a buck on my place in the summer, even with good sanctuaries. I believe they bachelor group up in the nearby corn and bean fields since there is food, water, and security for them. I've never read anything on the subject, but I wonder if they hang out in the grain fields since there are less ticks and cool bedding in the bare dirt under corn? Once the fields are cut and cooler weather hits, the bucks come pouring in and stay all winter. In my mind, this is perfect since they aren't browsing all summer and more food will be available all winter.

Plus, warm weather hunting stinks Ticks, mosquitoes, sweat, spoiled meat possibilities = yuck. I can't imagine how hot it is in SC in September

If you really have to have the bucks in early you'll have to find out where the bachelor groups hang out, then try to figure out what critical component that land has compared to yours. Good luck!

 

[Drycreek]

Ok...hold bucks during a period where they are primarily nocturnal so you can get their pictures at night, or have them chase your does during the main period that they move diurnally and you have a good chance to kill them.

So...what's the problem??


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That's what I'm talking about ! I get good bucks from the time they start forming antlers until they shed, and then most of them are gone. I will generally see at least two nice bucks that I've never seen before once the rut starts kicking in.

 

[Drycreek]

I handle the pressure thing a little differently. I have four places I hunt on and hunt them about equally. That way, I'm hoping not to burn them out.