Deer Numbers

[Long Cut]

Were currently managing 61 acres in West Central Georgia. Surrounded by three landowners that own 1,000 acres and greater. These neighbors surround us in a triangle to the East, South and West. Land breaks down to roughly 60% open pines in 40-50 basal acres. 25% old fields and 15% hardwoods.

Our immediate neighbors have clearcut their properties and built houses on 45-55 acre lots.

So far we’ve burned our NSWG fields, burned the open pines and left the creek bottoms for now. Planted 2.5 acres of food plots and done some TSI work to the hardwood ridges. We now currently have the best habitat and food in the nearby area, which is pulling a lot more deer in.

A Biologist advised in 2020 to kill 6-10 does if our neighbors didn’t shoot any (they didn’t). So far between 2020-2022 we’ve killed 11 deer off of the property. Most have been mature does and 2 mature bucks (4.5 and 6.5).

I’m still seeing 10+ does hitting my food plots on my trail cameras. My record was 17 does in one food plot at one time during a January hunt.

So with the information provided, what would you do? Continue killing piles of does or accept that on 61 acres you aren’t controlling deer numbers and hunt/plant larger food plots accordingly?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Do you like venison? I'm a huge fan of venison, so I'd keep on whackin' until I couldn't get any more jars.

I've never been on the abundance side of deer, so I can't say I completely understand what you're going through. I imagine you may be running out of plot food at some point? If that's the case, have you considered dialing down the preference of the food to make it last longer?

 

[jlane35]

I’m hunting on 240 acres surrounded by thousands of continuous timber. The hunting club that connects to our one side is 800 acres and they may kill 1-2 doe a year. I’ve come to the realization that it doesn’t matter what we do, our carrying capacity is the carrying capacity. If we kill a few doe it seems like some just move in from the club. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve been seeing the same amount of doe whether we shoot a bunch the year before or hardly any. So what we do it shoot enough deer to fill our freezer and make sure we have enough to get us to the next deer season.

 

[SwampCat]

The first question I would ask is what is the health of the deer? What are the fawn recruitment rates. What is your buck:doe ratio. Any weight data?

I have very low fawn recruitment rate of .3 per doe. I offset that by maintaining higher doe numbers. My deer density has increased - but so has deer weight.

As you said - it may be difficult to affect overall deer numbers in your area because you are pulling deer from the surrounding ground. Deer in Georgia probably will be just fine with or without your food plots. I know quite a few biologists, and the words “you need to take more does” typically flows freely from their mouths. Unless herd health is an issue, I might just ride it for awhile and enjoy seeing the deer.

 

[Long Cut]

I imagine you may be running out of plot food at some point? If that's the case, have you considered dialing down the preference of the food to make it last longer?

Right now I’m at 2.5 acres of clover, oats and chicory plots. The grazing pressure is so intense nothing makes it above lip height.

Contemplating on expanding out to 4-5 acres but that may not change anything except my expenses.

 

[Long Cut]

The first question I would ask is what is the health of the deer? What are the fawn recruitment rates. What is your buck:doe ratio. Any weight data?

I have very low fawn recruitment rate of .3 per doe. I offset that by maintaining higher doe numbers. My deer density has increased - but so has deer weight.

As you said - it may be difficult to affect overall deer numbers in your area because you are pulling deer from the surrounding ground. Deer in Georgia probably will be just fine with or without your food plots. I know quite a few biologists, and the words “you need to take more does” typically flows freely from their mouths. Unless herd health is an issue, I might just ride it for awhile and enjoy seeing the deer.

Buck to Doe ratio is around 1:10

Fawn Recruitment despite our high coyote and bobcat numbers seems very good. I’m guessing it’s close to 1, I’ve seen multiple does with twins and one with triplets. It’s hard to get an accurate number on smaller acreage and with so many doe family groups in a small area.

Average mature buck weight is around 190# live weight. Average for the area
Average mature doe has been around 110-120# I’ve killed 3 does that looked like horses.

Picture wise I’m not seeing any ribs or sunken faces, where I believe them to be malnourished.

I fed Buck Muscle protein feed last year from December-May and was putting out over 1 ton a month on 61 acres. They could eat a 500# trough feeder empty in 6-7 days.

 

[gut_pile]

Nothing wrong with shooting some more if the neighbors aren't.

In some places, you simply can't kill enough. We have a club in SW GA and our deer density is so high we have biologists asking us to shoot them up into April. And giving us the tags to do so. We have killed as many as 17 in one afternoon on my 900 club and kill 30 plus a year and haven't put a dent in them.

If you hunt your place enough throughout the season, you should get a good feel for what's going on with the herd. Shoot accordingly.

I don't think you hurt anything by going to 4.5 acres on your food plot. When it starts growing above lip high, you'll know you've reached the proper amount of food.

One last thing, your buck:doe isn't 1:10. It's just not naturally possible. Grant Woods has said many times that it can only get to maybe 1:5 in the most severe cases. Have to remember a lot of those "does" you are seeing are button bucks.

 

[MarkDarvin]

You've gotta count all your non-shooting neighbors in your harvest consideration. I'd find a way to stand on the trigger until those numbers go down, but I'd do it in the most low impact area of your property as possible. I wouldn't want to do that much killing in my prime hunting spots if numbers are that high. It'd be even better if you can harvest them on someone else's property so they can take the commotion penalty.

 

[SwampCat]

To determine true buck:doe ratios - it must be done preseason - usually september. Remember, fawns arent included in the count. Camera surveys are typically less biased than other survey methods because they survey night and day. I agree, 1:10 buck:doe ratio pre season would be extremely high.

If you have a true 1 fawn per doe recruitment rate, you can probably shoot your does with abandon and never hurt the population. I have surveyed a number of properties and the highest I have seen is .63 fawns per doe. We do have a lot of predation and some fairly regular flooding.

 

[Paradise725]

Buck to Doe ratio is around 1:10

Fawn Recruitment despite our high coyote and bobcat numbers seems very good. I’m guessing it’s close to 1, I’ve seen multiple does with twins and one with triplets. It’s hard to get an accurate number on smaller acreage and with so many doe family groups in a small area.

Average mature buck weight is around 190# live weight. Average for the area
Average mature doe has been around 110-120# I’ve killed 3 does that looked like horses.

Picture wise I’m not seeing any ribs or sunken faces, where I believe them to be malnourished.

I fed Buck Muscle protein feed last year from December-May and was putting out over 1 ton a month on 61 acres. They could eat a 500# trough feeder empty in 6-7 days.

I have read that a 10:1 doe to buck ratio is virtually impossible in a wild herd and that anything greater than 4:1 is unlikely since 50% of fawns every year are bucks. If you had 10 does and one buck at the end of winter with 2 fawns born per doe, the next year you would have 10 does, 10 doe fawns, 1 buck, and 10 buck fawns. So 10:1 would become 2:1. So if fawn recruitment is more like 0.5 fawns per doe, you’d have 12.5 does and 3.5 bucks the very next year (4:1).

I think you should shoot as many does as you can without impacting daylight buck movement on your property. We typically shoot our does in earlY archery season or last weekend of rifle season.


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[30-30]

It can be possible since bucks get kicked out of the area after 1st year. So you could have a "doe factory" in a spot. Typically you will then get the bucks coming through during the rut.

 

[Long Cut]

I did run a 1 month long trail camera survey over 2 baited sites approximately .4-5 miles apart in late December/ early January of 2021.

Truthfully I forgot the real number but it was in the 3-4 range of does per bucks. There was a point in time I remembered how many deer frequented the property and I do remember averaging over 3# of protein feed per deer per day after accounting for loss to raccoons and other varmint.

I no longer feed or have the time to monitor the deer as closely as I did last year.

From my observations hunting and running cameras we definitely hold more does than bucks. I may see 2-3 young bucks in a hunt outside of the Rut. This property only hunts well late October and into early December then it’s a ghost town for a mature buck.

I’ve heard mixed opinions on the “doe factory” theory, on small properties my experiences lend me to believe that it’s true.

 

[SwampCat]

I think there is only so much you can do on a smaller acreage. I would look on the bright side - most smaller acreage landowners have more trouble with next door neighbors shooting the bulk of the deer. Your problem is opposite. You can shoot as many as you want or dont want - and probably not affect the area population that much

 

[Long Cut]

I think there is only so much you can do on a smaller acreage. I would look on the bright side - most smaller acreage landowners have more trouble with next door neighbors shooting the bulk of the deer. Your problem is opposite. You can shoot as many as you want or dont want - and probably not affect the area population that much

It seems most of our neighbors shoot bucks and not any does. None seem to “manage” their habitat or deer herd aside from the 2 larger land owners in close proximity to our property.

I’ve run some QDM-ish ideas by some of them, but their interests lie elsewhere for now.