Chestnut seedlings growth stalls with black tip

[Benja]

Attention chestnut experts.
Throughout this past spring and summer, I've grown a bunch of chestnut seedlings. One problem I've been seeing is the occasional chestnut seeds that produce a single stem of top growth and then stall with a black tip. These seedlings vary in height, but are generally between 2" and 8" tall, with only small, undeveloped leaf bases. The seed doesn't send up additional stems and the existing stem doesn't grow even though I watch it carefully for several weeks. Other seedlings grow normally right beside these stalled "black tip" seedlings. In the end I throw the black tipped seedlings away when I transplant the healthy seedlings.

What is causing this "black tip" on my seedlings? Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

How I plant: After the chestnut's radicle is around 1" long, I plant into a 5 gallon bucket filled about halfway with Fafard growing mix. I plant around a dozen sprouted seeds in each bucket and transplant them when they begin to interfere with the action of the bucket handle - 15-20"-ish. I transplanted the first 50 into tree tubes throughout my property; since then they all went into a small orchard that is fully enclosed by 6' tall, 1"x2" welded wire fence.

I've attached 3 photos to better describe what I tried to say above.

 

[wbpdeer]

I will say that I believe your black tips could have been caused by too much water or poor drainage. Did your five gallon buckets have many drainage holes in them?

Chestnut roots are very sensitive to overwatering. It happens to all of us - so please don't think I am putting you down. If you have 10 chestnut seedlings - they will react differently to the same amount of water.

Did the position of the black tip sprouts get the same amount of sunlight as the other seedlings?

If you transplanted 50 seedlings, you had a great year. The people that say they never lose a tree or a seedlings aren't truthful or only growing 2 or 3 of something. Nature's way is the eliminate the weak.

You did the right thing to toss the bad ones. Growing trees is a numbers game.

Welcome to this forum, this is your first post. Glad to have you.

What state are you from?

 

[dogdoc]

I had several do that also. I think it was from using normal potting soil and the soil staying to wet.

Welcome

 

[Fish]

I found the same thing. A handful of seedlings just didnt grow, despite others in the same conditions growing strong. I cant tell you why, only that you're not alone in seeing that.

 

[Benja]

I will say that I believe your black tips could have been caused by too much water or poor drainage. Did your five gallon buckets have many drainage holes in them?

Chestnut roots are very sensitive to overwatering. It happens to all of us - so please don't think I am putting you down. If you have 10 chestnut seedlings - they will react differently to the same amount of water.

Did the position of the black tip sprouts get the same amount of sunlight as the other seedlings?

If you transplanted 50 seedlings, you had a great year. The people that say they never lose a tree or a seedlings aren't truthful or only growing 2 or 3 of something. Nature's way is the eliminate the weak.

You did the right thing to toss the bad ones. Growing trees is a numbers game.

Welcome to this forum, this is your first post. Glad to have you.

What state are you from?

No, not many holes. I drilled 4 holes in the bottom and 6 holes on the side, 1" from the bottom, all with 1/8" bit.
Other than the difference in plant maturity and height, the black tips seedlings should get the same amount of sunlight as the others. The buckets are kept out of the sun, under an open porch on the north side of the house. I try to move the buckets out when clear weather is 'guaranteed' and back in before the rains come.
My goal is to learn how to grow nut trees. I have oak and hickory trees on my property, so I have chosen to learn with chestnuts. I don't have a goal for quantity of trees and I collected sufficient seeds to practice germinating and planting all summer long. I have access to a variety of local trees. These with black tips seem to come from one specific mother tree. I estimate 1/3 of my plants have died, though very few have failed after being planted in a tree protector in the field.
Thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking for more than a year and moved here from the other forum when it was discontinued. Wayne, I admire your enthusiasm for these projects and have read nearly everything you posted.
I'm from Coshocton county Ohio.

 

[Benja]

I had several do that also. I think it was from using normal potting soil and the soil staying to wet.

Welcome

I was hoping to avoid some of this by using good professional potting mix, but it's possible that I'd have lost many more if I used normal potting mix.

 

[Benja]

I found the same thing. A handful of seedlings just didnt grow, despite others in the same conditions growing strong. I cant tell you why, only that you're not alone in seeing that.

Hi Fish,
Thanks for that bit of comfort. It helps.

 

[wbpdeer]

My son hunted in your county a few years back - he tagged out in Kentucky and headed there. Do you have any leads where a person could hunt in your county? He hunted public ground. I have been over to that side of Ohio but we were just scouting on that trip.

Glad to know you are interested in Chinese Chestnuts. What type of growing media did you use in the 5 gallon buckets? What we grow chestnuts in has to drain very well.

I would suggest you enlarge the holes that are 1/4 inch. Also, add some holes to the buckets. The holes allow air into the growing media and allow water to leave the growing media (which is important). Did I read you filled the five gallon buckets half full? I would fill them at least 3/4 full - that gives more room for a tap root.

The best way to learn is to read and ask questions about the things you wonder about or don't understand. Good luck.

Secret to Growing Chestnuts - Don't Try to Cut Corners and Figure out What Are the Killers!

 

[Benja]

Wayne, I've heard good things about Woodbury and the "Ohio Power land" (Ohio Power was local electric company before AEP bought them - they own thousands of acres in Coshocton and surrounding counties; it's open to the public but requires a free permit from AEP, available at local sporting goods stores and gas stations). I wish I had more information on huntable private land, but I just purchased my property last year and am still remodeling it for my primary residence. I don't really know the area. I currently live 25 miles north in central Holmes county and have mostly hunted in my grandfathers 5-acre island of woods.
Growing media was Fafard something. My father-in-law has a greenhouse near Charlottesville, Virginia and I bought a bale from him. I've experimented with this - sometimes using pure Fafard mix, sometimes adding sand, other times adding wood shavings. Currently I have 3 buckets with chestnut seedlings and the fullest is close to 2/3 filled with growing media. it's also the bucket with the most black tips.
I'll add more holes when I return home later this week. I'll also keep setting them out for the sun and try to turn the buckets occasionally for even sunlight.
I hear you about cutting corners, but what one person calls Cutting Corners is another person's Saving Money. Wisely and practically saving money was one of the best things I appreciate about Paul Knox's advice and it's what attracted me to the old forum in the first place. One of the main points I made to Lindsay Thomas against closing the forum was this very thing; rather than read professionally edited, university- or corporation-approved articles about how a proprietary seed is best for all climates and counties, I want to learn from people like me; day laborers from many walks of life who learn because they have passion and fire, and who make mistakes and discoveries through it.
Sorry, that wasn't a planned rant. I still get excited when I think about the old forums. I'm not planning to buy Root Maker cells because I have a house to finish building and I simply can't justify spending that money. I can and I do, however, pick up free local chestnuts and plant them all summer long to learn about the nutty process of life.

 

[wbpdeer]

Benja

Drainage and oxygen are two things that need to be increased. Make more drain holes high up on the 5 gallon buckets and they must be much larger than 1/8 inch. If you soil looks pasty or thick - it is not draining adequately. The drain holes have to allow oxygen to get to the roots.

Perlite will improve the soils drainage. Mini-Pine Bark will help the soil drainage. I would put some rocks in the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket to allow the water to drain out the bottom holes quickly.

Some people cut large holes in the five gallon buckets but they line them with landscape fabric to prevent the growing media from escaping. That approach would increase drainage and promote oxygen getting to the roots.

Glad you have a large supply of chestnuts. Direct seed them and see if you can establish seedlings in their final location without a huge investment of time.

 

[Benja]

I made small holes so the soil wouldn't flush out through the holes. I hadn't thought about using landscape fabric to block larger holes. Will have to try that on some of the next buckets.

I'm planning to direct seed quite a few chestnuts this year. I remember a member of the old forum describing how the old timers planted acorns by plowing a single furrow beside the woods, lining the bottom with sawdust, dropping in acorns, and covering up with a few more inches of sawdust and finally a bit of dirt. I'm thinking of trying something like that both in a furrow (multiple seeds) and hole (single nut) methods. I'm paying close attention to T-Max's current direct seeding thread.

 

[Kabic]

Some people cut large holes in the five gallon buckets but they line them with landscape fabric to prevent the growing media from escaping. That approach would increase drainage and promote oxygen getting to the roots.
.

My trees are still doing good this year, with this method...and my dirt isn't anything too fancy

 

[Benja]

Late last October I direct seeded several dozen chestnuts in an unused portion of my garden. After collecting chestnuts from a variety of local trees and picking up a barrel of fresh sawdust and shavings from my father's wood shop (planer and table saw shavings), I thoroughly tilled a small patch. I made these furrows with a hoe, piling the dirt in tall hills between deep rows.

Here the rows have been prepared.


Added a few inches of sawdust


I dumped lots of chestnuts into the rows.


After this I added another 3" layer of sawdust and raked the dirt back into place. I don't think I watered them in, but I probably would next time.

 

[Benja]

Not nearly all the seeds came up - probably only 15% of them. Two out of the 5 rows only have 1 or 2 seedlings. The photo below is the best row and the next best one looks nearly identical. In these two 6-foot rows I have roughly 40 chestnuts.

All these direct-seeded nuts seemed to get a slow start. They're short compared to the nuts I started inside and then planted into pots, but they have much closer leaf scaffolding and their trunks feel much stiffer. Since they've always been outside in direct sunlight, they have no acclimatization needs or other special consideration. Other than weeding the rows, I haven't done anything for them. No mulch, no fertilizer; just a few neglected rows. This was an experiment and I'm satisfied with the results. If there is a next time, I'll water them occasionally in the ground before they sprout (mid- to late-Spring) and add some fertilizer - maybe kelp meal and homemade fish emulsion.

I planted some English Walnuts in a section of the last row and 1 of them came up, too.

 

[wbpdeer]

I have read that people that use fish emulsion have trouble with raccoons digging up the chestnuts. Just sharing a concern that might cost you any chance at a seedling.

Wayne

 

[wbpdeer]

A Chinese Chestnut puts down a deep tap root. If I was going to plant them in rows in the garden type setting, I would dig them up as soon as they were about 6 inches tall and plant them in their final location. Personally, I don't have any experience with sawdust - I am guessing you have seen that work for others.

The good news is you have a local supply of chestnuts and will be able to refine your approach to improve your success rate.

I always like to see people get interested in chestnuts because they really grow vigorously once they germinate.

Hang in there and your deer will appreciate your efforts.

Wayne

 

[Fish]

Not nearly all the seeds came up - probably only 15% of them. Two out of the 5 rows only have 1 or 2 seedlings. The photo below is the best row and the next best one looks nearly identical. In these two 6-foot rows I have roughly 40 chestnuts.

All these direct-seeded nuts seemed to get a slow start. They're short compared to the nuts I started inside and then planted into pots, but they have much closer leaf scaffolding and their trunks feel much stiffer. Since they've always been outside in direct sunlight, they have no acclimatization needs or other special consideration. Other than weeding the rows, I haven't done anything for them. No mulch, no fertilizer; just a few neglected rows. This was an experiment and I'm satisfied with the results. If there is a next time, I'll water them occasionally in the ground before they sprout (mid- to late-Spring) and add some fertilizer - maybe kelp meal and homemade fish emulsion.

I planted some English Walnuts in a section of the last row and 1 of them came up, too.

View attachment 7896

Its getting late in the year, but i might feed those trees some fert right now and see if they will grow for you. Water it in. Of course, something to be said for leaving well enough alone.

 

[Benja]

I have read that people that use fish emulsion have trouble with raccoons digging up the chestnuts. Just sharing a concern that might cost you any chance at a seedling.

Wayne

Wayne, thanks for sharing that concern. Coons can be devastators and I've been blessed to not experience much trouble from them yet.

 

[Benja]

Its getting late in the year, but i might feed those trees some fert right now and see if they will grow for you. Water it in. Of course, something to be said for leaving well enough alone.

I've been rolling that option around, but so far the "good enough alone" argument has won. I'm curious to see how well they perform in a least care scenario. Perhaps another year I can try to improve the results by giving more care. Meanwhile, I also have several dozen local chestnuts and Dunstan seedlings in root pouches that I'm caring for according to Wayne's recommendations.