boundary dispute

Jeff H

Well-Known Member
My neighbor informed me today that they are having their property surveyed this week. They have a home and 12 acres that fronts my 98 acres. She stated that she believes my road is actually their road, or at least on their property. I asked where she got her information from. Realtor showed her a website. Likely a GIS site that is not to be used for conveyance.
My place was surveyed 18 years ago. I know where all of the pins are and have walked the lines using gps.
My road is on my property if using the pins placed 18 years ago.
My question is would it be likely that a new surveyor will place new pins or simply mark the lines using the existing pins? And if new pins are placed do the new pins trump the old pins?
The guy who surveyed my place is still in business and I left him a message to call me regarding the dispute.
 
There's really not a dispute yet, just a belief. If their surveyor came up with a different survey that would be very, very unlikely. I suppose it could happen though but, you would then have to have a talk with your surveyor. I assume were talking 20-30 feet or something small. Those GIS lines can be off by that easy, and that's why they say you can't go by that. It all starts with research. Once their surveyor sees that there was a survey done recently then it makes his work much easier. They love when the pins are already there.
 
I am not expert on this. My understanding that what is recorded stands, and if their survey contradicts what is recorded they would have to follow the correct procedure to challenge the recorded plats.

One of the issues with my property is that it was subdivided off a larger property over 100 years ago, and no survey has been done since. I want to put up a fence at some point. I walked the property line with a surveyor. He found where a different surveyor recorded a corner pin over 30 years ago when a different farm was subdivided. Other than that there are no pins and the description will give you a headache. When we walked the property line he showed me barbwire that he could tell was over 100 years old and was consistent with what have been used at the time of the original subdivision. He could tell where it was going through trees on the original fence line, vice when it had been tacked to a tree years later. None much of that fence is left. Anyway he told me he would use original fence line for determining the actual line to a large degree because that kind of history is important when descriptions are not very helpful, etc.
 
I wouldn't worry about it at all. The burden of proof of a different surveyor would be on them, and if they turned out to be right, you'd have a good set of questions for your guy.
 
Speaking from a non surveyor, plain old seasoned landowner, realtors are normally not a great source for knowing property lines. That's not their licensed expertise. Some do research and are very helpful in showing a property but they sure aren't responsible or likely qualified for defining property lines. It is a shame that some give out information as they did because it places the buyer and you Jeff the neighbor in an uncomfortable position.The buyer ends up having surveyed what has recently already been surveyed and of course you the neighbor has to deal with the likely misconception on the buyers side.

A really seasoned surveyor here would start from scratch and survey from one of the known common points on a block (forget what they are called) and may need to start quite a distance from a property to do that so it is always possible two surveyors may not agree. One or more of the area surveyors may skip the start from the beginning method and rely on others pins. Of course there will be only one correct pin location for a point.

We have a point on our property that is in disagreement. The point had already been marked by a neighbors surveyor. It didn't make sense to me so I had the point surveyed while surveying some other points. Sure enough the surveyor I hired came up with a different point location than the neighbors which ironically gave me ten feet more than I thought I had and gave my neighbor 40 more feet than he had marked if he had believed my surveyors. The points are supposed to meet but are forty feet apart so now there is forty feet between us that my neighbor says is mine that I say is his(backwards problem). Digressing but the point is while it is highly unlikely that their surveyor will come up with a different point, it is possible. However even if he or she did come up with a different point location it wouldn't necessarily mean that your point location is incorrect but would merely mean that two licensed surveyors have arrived at different conclusions;one of them of course would be wrong if there were two pin locations. It would then be ethically up to the two surveyors to find the error if they were notified of the error.

Hope all goes well, that both you and the new neighbor keep the lines of communication open and the second surveyor comes up with the same point location. I know from experience that some people get very riled up at these times and it is a shame because a new neighbor can be a wonderful thing or an awful thing. Bad starts don't help.

Be sure to let us know how it plays out.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Chainsaw you are spot on with your comments on good neighbors. I've had three different families live at this place since I've own my place. None have been a problem. All good neighbors and respectful. I've had multiple issues with this last family, specifically her husband. I try to be respectful yet firm on my points. I'll deal with whatever comes of this , but will also be as prepared as I can be. With any luck patience will pay off and I'll have a fourth family in that place. Sometimes you just have to wait them out.
 
A good surveyor will research and ground prove points as best as possible from a group of property boundaries even if that means traversing a long distance. Keep in mind, I said a good surveyor. He shouldn't rely on your or their previous points alone. With that said, there can be discoveries that contradict one another in surveys. In that case, owners or courts make a final aggreement hopefully. And yes, I have a surveying family, and have seen some surprising results. Try explaining how someones house sits straddling a line to them. Good luck.
 
It doesn't sound like you have much to worry about yet. But good neighbors are worth more than a few feet of dirt, try to defuse the situation if possible. However, if they're trying to take your access road that is clearly yours it complicates things. Hope it works out well for you.
 
My neighbor informed me today that they are having their property surveyed this week. They have a home and 12 acres that fronts my 98 acres. She stated that she believes my road is actually their road, or at least on their property. I asked where she got her information from. Realtor showed her a website. Likely a GIS site that is not to be used for conveyance.
My place was surveyed 18 years ago. I know where all of the pins are and have walked the lines using gps.
My road is on my property if using the pins placed 18 years ago.
My question is would it be likely that a new surveyor will place new pins or simply mark the lines using the existing pins? And if new pins are placed do the new pins trump the old pins?
The guy who surveyed my place is still in business and I left him a message to call me regarding the dispute.

You have absolutely nothing to worry about. I've been a Land Surveyor for going on 20 years now, and run into this situation all the time. With most counties now giving public access to their GIS mapping databases, everybody thinks that they're a land surveyor now. Like others have said; these lines can and are usually not that close.

There is a saying in the Land Surveying field that, "he who has a survey done first, wins". Unless there is an egregious error, than your neighbors survey will hold your survey as evidence. Especially so if your parcel is the parent tract to your neighbors property? In other words; their parcel was created from dividing a parcel from yours. I'm sure that the old surveyor that you left a message with will clear up all the questions you have, but if he doesn't I'll be glad to offer some assistance.
 
You have absolutely nothing to worry about. I've been a Land Surveyor for going on 20 years now, and run into this situation all the time. With most counties now giving public access to their GIS mapping databases, everybody thinks that they're a land surveyor now. Like others have said; these lines can and are usually not that close.

There is a saying in the Land Surveying field that, "he who has a survey done first, wins". Unless there is an egregious error, than your neighbors survey will hold your survey as evidence. Especially so if your parcel is the parent tract to your neighbors property? In other words; their parcel was created from dividing a parcel from yours. I'm sure that the old surveyor that you left a message with will clear up all the questions you have, but if he doesn't I'll be glad to offer some assistance.
Thanks for your help. The land I own plus everything around it was divided from one large tract, but we're talking 70 years ago. Mine was surveyed when I bought it 18 years ago. The house and 12 acres in question has been through three owners since then. I would imagine a survey was done for one of those.


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Thanks for your help. The land I own plus everything around it was divided from one large tract, but we're talking 70 years ago. Mine was surveyed when I bought it 18 years ago. The house and 12 acres in question has been through three owners since then. I would imagine a survey was done for one of those.


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Since your parcel is the "parent tract", you have senior rights over any adjoiners should there be a boundary line discrepancy/dispute.

One thing about boundary surveys and Land Surveyors that people don't realize is that when you are surveying a property for a client you don't always rule in favor of them. You need to make sure that all adjoininers get what property they are deeded and they rightfully own. Often times I've worked for a client and they haven't been happy with me because they didn't agree where I put their boundary line.
 
There are a few exceptions that I have seen but I would imagine they are rare.My property runs along a river and the section is short.If you don't research you wouldn't know that you must start at the south mile line or else you end up wrong but this really only occured because of the section difference and this was originally surveyed by wagon and chain.The other instance is in our town that was completely wiped out in 1955 by a tornado you almost always have to start from east side of town and go west to get correct.After 18 years I bet you are OK
 
Update: I spoke with the surveyor's wife who basically said the same as what you guys have said. Currently there is nothing to dispute. If their survey shows different from my current line then the owners of the 12 acres would need to provide me with a copy of the survey. At that point I would schedule a meeting with my surveyor so they could review it.
She also mentioned that anything is possible but that it was not likely to be an error of any large degree. She was very engaged in my issue and called back later in the day after looking up my survey to make sure she had all of the correct info. I was afraid that I might get the brush off treatment since it was a job done so long ago. Not here, and that makes me feel like I have a surveyor with integrity. You can't ask for more than that!
I'm headed down there today. We'll see if they've done their survey yet. I'll post any info that I find.
 
Thats great. Surveyors as a group take great pride in their work, and since much of their work is in the background unseen by their clients, love to prove their case is correct. Things do happen and records can be muddled at times making lines slightly vague but sounds like you have a good survey. Good luck with the interaction.
 
Good to hear you had a great interaction with the Surveyors wife. Keep us posted on how you make out with everything.
 
As of yesterday there has been no survey done. I checked the pins at both ends of the property to make sure they had not been tampered with and we're easily found. I also set two cameras up and set them for video so I can see for myself where the surveyor marks his line.
If the neighbors claim is proven incorrect and the line that I know is upheld I doubt I'll hear a thing from them. They don't seem the type to concede. They'll likely think that their surveyor is wrong and they are still right. Relations will still be tense which is unfortunate.
 
What would they gain if the survey shows the road is their's? Why are they paying for a survey and pushing the issue for a few feet of ground (that requires maintenance)?

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