Beating Cool Season Grasses

[KSQ2]

Our plots are absolutely abysmal with the ongoing 2.5 year drought. I have not found one clover leaf in 5 acres of plots spread over 3 different properties. With the blank slate provided by the dead clover and the winter rye getting outcompeted in a couple plots, I now have an uphill climb that I’m not very optimistic about. Throw and mow is now out of the question, I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to attempt regenerative plotting again. So, with plotting conventionally this fall, how late am I going to have to start in order to kill all this cool season grass? I’ll post a couple pics to show what I’m dealing with, in one plot the grass is so thick you cannot see the ground anywhere in the half acre. I don’t mind spraying and then planting all the way into late October if necessary. I don’t want to have to kill the grass in spring, these new starts are going to greatly benefit from the winter rye and I don’t want to have to kill it in March with cool season grasses.


Here’s a closeup of what dominated the winter rye. I spread the rye HEAVY last fall too.

 

[yoderjac]

Grasses are susceptible to gly. You should be able to T&M. I'd mow the field first and give it a week or two for grasses to get new growth. I'd then burn it down with gly and plant a smother crop of buckwheat. You can then spray again and go heavy on the WR when you plant your fall mix.

 

[Native Hunter]

That looks like Annual Brome, and it is horrible here this year too. It doesn't have my plots choked out too bad, but it sure is taking up more space than I want it to. What I'm going to do - let it germinate and hit it early next spring with Clethodim. I actually now have 4 different annual grasses that plague me, because I have ignored them for a while. Maybe next spring I will change that.

 

[KSQ2]

That looks like Annual Brome, and it is horrible here this year too. It doesn't have my plots choked out too bad, but it sure is taking up more space than I want it to. What I'm going to do - let it germinate and hit it early next spring with Clethodim. I actually now have 4 different annual grasses that plague me, because I have ignored them for a while. Maybe next spring I will change that.

Can it be killed in the fall? I believe this is the grass that comes on at some point in the fall and remains green most of the winter. It’s very short and “soft” throughout the winter. Remember, I’m not trying to salvage anything, I’m having to start from scratch again and could REALLY use the benefits of winter rye reaching head stage. Again, I don’t mind planting late.

 

[KSQ2]

Grasses are susceptible to gly. You should be able to T&M. I'd mow the field first and give it a week or two for grasses to get new growth. I'd then burn it down with gly and plant a smother crop of buckwheat. You can then spray again and go heavy on the WR when you plant your fall mix.

I wish I could, but it’s a cool season grass that is done growing, even after a mow.

 

[KSQ2]

This is a much different grass than the one I posted in the what’s this plant thread.
Here’s the brome from our farm:

And here’s the stuff in the plot:

Are they two different types of brome?

 

[Native Hunter]

Can it be killed in the fall? Remember, I’m not trying to salvage anything, I’m having to start from scratch again. Again, I don’t mind planting late.

In that case you can gly kill it If you can get it before it drops viable seed. Otherwise you are in for the same thing next spring.

 

[Native Hunter]

This is a much different grass than the one I posted in the what’s this plant thread.
Here’s the brome from our farm:
View attachment 25463
And here’s the stuff in the plot:
View attachment 25464
Are they two different types of brome?

There are several different bromes. Some are annuals and some are perennials. They can be hard to differentiate visually.

 

[deer patch]

Since you’ve been in a drought for so long I would think you could get a farmer to bale it for hay. Then You could spray it with gly a week after removal and then could at least get seed to soil contact. Broadcast buckwheat just before a rain and plant something this fall and not have the competition of the grass next year.

 

[KSQ2]

Since you’ve been in a drought for so long I would think you could get a farmer to bale it for hay. Then You could spray it with gly a week after removal and then could at least get seed to soil contact. Broadcast buckwheat just before a rain and plant something this fall and not have the competition of the grass next year.

Will the seed germinate this summer? Or does it need cooler temps?

 

[yoderjac]

Grasses are susceptible to gly. You should be able to T&M. I'd mow the field first and give it a week or two for grasses to get new growth. I'd then burn it down with gly and plant a smother crop of buckwheat. You can then spray again and go heavy on the WR when you plant your fall mix.

I think I'd still do the same thing. If it is an annual, mowing may reduce viable seed. You my want to consider delaying your fall plant until new grasses start growing. Gly will help then and you can do a T&M. If you think you will have a problem in the spring, skip perennial clover in the fall and keep the WR thick. You may need to spray next spring if you didn't get enough of it controlled this year.

I would not worry too much. While it won't benefit wildlife, I'd guess you will get enough food in your plots.

 

[KSQ2]

In that case you can gly kill it If you can get it before it drops viable seed. Otherwise you are in for the same thing next spring.

Just to make sure understand you right, mow ASAP, before it completely matures, then spray it with gly late fall, work and plant. Similar to what yoder said, correct?

 

[dogghr]

This kind of stuff was the original idea when i posted the Drought thread few years ago. Hard drought changes the makeup of a lot of flora, causing transitions that can be hard to overcome, that persists for years. Saw that in my hard drought and hope yours will come to an end,
I’d mow the crap out of that stuff on a monthly basis. How I handled it was Spray with Cleth and light gly mix in late aug or early Sept. Plant again heavy rye or wheat. Add RC which is more drought tolerant and tubor producing radish. In next year, spray fields with Cleth when grain is self terminating. Sit back and get ready to do again perhaps for several years after rains return. Good news , most clover lays dormant for quite some time and will burst forth with moisture.
Hope you get the rains.

 

[KSQ2]

This kind of stuff was the original idea when i posted the Drought thread few years ago. Hard drought changes the makeup of a lot of flora, causing transitions that can be hard to overcome, that persists for years. Saw that in my hard drought and hope yours will come to an end,
I’d mow the crap out of that stuff on a monthly basis. How I handled it was Spray with Cleth and light gly mix in late aug or early Sept. Plant again heavy rye or wheat. Add RC which is more drought tolerant and tubor producing radish. In next year, spray fields with Cleth when grain is self terminating. Sit back and get ready to do again perhaps for several years after rains return. Good news , most clover lays dormant for quite some time and will burst forth with moisture.
Hope you get the rains.

That’s the part that is frustrating me, these two particular plots have received much more rain in the last month than our farm. Maybe the clover will bounce back with mowing to clear to overhead cover, but I’m not counting on it.
The following pic is at the lower barn plot on the Massey, fortunately, though the clover is still awol, the rye has done a pretty good job of keeping cool season grasses at bay so far.
99% of the straw is wr with a little bit of awnless wheat mixed in.

 

[dogghr]

I think you will see rebound next spring with clover if rains return. But the weeds/grasses will be a couple year battle in my experience. I’m a big fan of wheat planting more so than rye even tho I use both. Plus I thought only wheat could be planted in Kansas??? LOL

 

[Native Hunter]

Just to make sure understand you right, mow ASAP, before it completely matures, then spray it with gly late fall, work and plant. Similar to what yoder said, correct?

Yes, do that.

 

[yoderjac]

Keep in mind that if you kill it now (which I think you should if you can), it creates an opportunity for other weeds, some of which may be problematic. That is why I suggested you spray now to get as much as you can before it seeds, and plant a buckwheat smother crop for summer. Buckwheat has 60-90 days of food value for deer, but you can let it stand much longer. I'd wait until your cool season grasses begin to grow in the fall and then kill them with gly and do your fall plant.

One last note. If you have a problem with other noxious gly-resistant weeds, gly may not be the best herbicide choice. There are others, but if gly-resistance is not an issue for you, it is the least expensive and effective way to go.

 

[SwampCat]

I am having the same problem with brome and annual rye grass. One of my problems is half my plots are in accessible for another month due to wet ground. I have got rid of these grasses before by planting a roundup ready crop - like soybeans - or broadleaf crop like sunflowers - and spray and kill the grass early in spring. In My bottom land plots, the grass is so thick it chokes out the clover and wheat.

 

[KSQ2]

Since you’ve been in a drought for so long I would think you could get a farmer to bale it for hay. Then You could spray it with gly a week after removal and then could at least get seed to soil contact. Broadcast buckwheat just before a rain and plant something this fall and not have the competition of the grass next year.

If the plot was larger than a half acre, that might have been a good plan. The winter rye/brome combo was so thick it looked almost like raked hay by the time I was done. You can see some of the drought effects in the background. The plum thicket on the backside of the plot died, as well as quite a few cedars, you can see one of them.

There was a little chicory struggling down deep. Maybe it will come on a little before it will be time for the buckwheat.

 

[BearCreek]

Are you trying to establish a perennial clover plot?