Archery, will it ever be the same again?

[FL Plotter]

Too many deer wounded and lost each year with archery so I'm all for faster bows/Xbows that are easy to use so more game are recovered. Most (and I have only anecdotal data to back this up) people don't practice and can't judge range well, but are going to hunt "archery" season anyways....might as well make it as humane as possible for the herd.

 

[dogghr]

Too many deer wounded and lost each year with archery so I'm all for faster bows/Xbows that are easy to use so more game are recovered. Most (and I have only anecdotal data to back this up) people don't practice and can't judge range well, but are going to hunt "archery" season anyways....might as well make it as humane as possible for the herd.

Not really true statement. A common misconception of bow vs rifle which studies refute. Hard to actually determine of course but I’d argue more deer wounded by firearm. But I get your point.

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates


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[lakngolf]

Not really true statement. A common misconception of bow vs rifle which studies refute. Hard to actually determine of course but I’d argue more deer wounded by firearm. But I get your point.

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates


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I agree 100%. At least for me I have lost more bloody deer after rifle hit than with bow.

 

[FL Plotter]

Not really true statement. A common misconception of bow vs rifle which studies refute. Hard to actually determine of course but I’d argue more deer wounded by firearm. But I get your point.
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates

I can't find a study coming to the conclusion that firearms result in a higher percentage of unrecovered wounded deer than archery, but I would read one if found. The two below are the most cited studies for archery. I also can't find a pure firearms study but a 18-50% loss rate for firearms would shock me--I'm hopeful it's much lower. Many of my friends and co-workers hunt and the topic of losing a rifle shot deer rarely comes up while archery losses are talked about frequently. It's not empirical...just my observation.

To me, if the end goal is a deer in the freezer, why not do it as quickly and humanely as possible leaving as little as possible to chance without worry about "tradition" or "cheating". I think that is the debate going on in this thread.

Modern archery:
http://www.seafwa.org/pdfs/articles/Pedersen-31-34.pdf During the 1989–2006 hunting seasons, 104 bowhunters failed to recover 162 of 908 deer hit by arrows or crossbow bolts, corresponding to an 18% wounding rate.
Traditional archery:
http://wp.auburn.edu/deerlab/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/581998-SEAFWA.pdf
Of the 22 deer shot by archers, 11 were recovered by the hunter, resulting in a 50% wounding rate (deer shot but not recovered).

I agree 100%. At least for me I have lost more bloody deer after rifle hit than with bow.

Yikes! Really?

 

[dogghr]

I can't find a study coming to the conclusion that firearms result in a higher percentage of unrecovered wounded deer than archery, but I would read one if found. The two below are the most cited studies for archery. I also can't find a pure firearms study but a 18-50% loss rate for firearms would shock me--I'm hopeful it's much lower. Many of my friends and co-workers hunt and the topic of losing a rifle shot deer rarely comes up while archery losses are talked about frequently. It's not empirical...just my observation.

To me, if the end goal is a deer in the freezer, why not do it as quickly and humanely as possible leaving as little as possible to chance without worry about "tradition" or "cheating". I think that is the debate going on in this thread.

Modern archery:
http://www.seafwa.org/pdfs/articles/Pedersen-31-34.pdf During the 1989–2006 hunting seasons, 104 bowhunters failed to recover 162 of 908 deer hit by arrows or crossbow bolts, corresponding to an 18% wounding rate.
Traditional archery:
http://wp.auburn.edu/deerlab/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/581998-SEAFWA.pdf
Of the 22 deer shot by archers, 11 were recovered by the hunter, resulting in a 50% wounding rate (deer shot but not recovered).


Yikes! Really?

I didn't claim firearms had a higher unrecovered wounded deer but anyways, read last paragraph of second study you listed. I don't have time right now for the first but will re read that when can get time. Semantics. And if there is not a rifle study to compare, how can one say one is more forgiving than the other?? Heard that for many a year and my so called anecdotal experience tells me other wise. I've found poorly bow shot deer certainly that someone had screwed up, but I've found many more with missing jaws, legs or hams that sure wasn't a poor bow shot. Poor shot deer run around with arrow sticking out and its drama, but poor shot rifle don't find bullet until someone kills deer later and finds the imbedded misplaced lead

 

[OkieKubota]

This year of people I know personally there have been 2 deer shot with bow and unrecovered. There was 1 shot and unrecovered with a muzzleloader. There were 5 shot and unrecovered with a rifle. This is a group of 16 hunters and all hunted every season.

I did not recover a buck shot with my compound early in the season and another guy on our lease did not recover a deer he shot with a crossbow. 1 guy on the lease did not recover a buck shot with a muzzleloader. 1 deer on the lease shot with rifle and unrecovered and another 2 hunters hit 2 bucks each they did not recover.

I think unrecovered deer with a rifle is more than archery in our area because we have many that will not even go look if the deer doesn’t drop right there. Would have been easy recoveries if folks knew how to track...

 

[catscratch]

Bingo! I've known and seen people who assume if it runs away after the (rifle) shot that they missed. Don't even go look. I also have been on several track jobs where the rifle shot deer didn't bleed hardly at all. Really tough tracking. I could see how an inexperienced person would assume they missed...

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[Drycreek]

Probably from dryfiring that crossbow.

Naah, from the endless (and mindless) debates on crossbows vs compounds vs stick bows vs rifles vs whatever you choose to use to hunt with. It’s the Ford vs Chevy debate and errrybody thinks their method is the best.

So, y’all hash it out and when you come up with the definitive answer I’ll be sure to change my mind as well as my methods. Hint: Don’t hold your breath....

 

[OkieKubota]

I don’t care what anyone hunts with or their methods as long as they are legal in the state they are in. We gotta stick together!!!

 

[dogghr]

Naah, from the endless (and mindless) debates on crossbows vs compounds vs stick bows vs rifles vs whatever you choose to use to hunt with. It’s the Ford vs Chevy debate and errrybody thinks their method is the best.

So, y’all hash it out and when you come up with the definitive answer I’ll be sure to change my mind as well as my methods. Hint: Don’t hold your breath....

It’s all in fun for most. Those on here take hunting and management to a higher level than the average Joe. These discussions for most just fill a void until the calendar allows more active land work. I as most could care less how someone does things as long as they stay legal.
Next topic is why redheads are better and why I married one! Carry on.


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[Native Hunter]

Any bow is just too modern. To be a true purist you have to go back to the time before bows were invented. I think we should be jumping out of trees and cutting their throats with a flint knife. You modern people disgust me...…………

 

[George]

"crossers"- crosserbowers.

We should all be carving our own quartz bannerstones.

G

 

[Ron Kulas]

If y’all were real men you’d shoot rifles.

I laughed.

 

[Ron Kulas]

Ron, I assume by “crosser” you mean someone who hunts with all weapons as do I.

No, A crosser is the user of a crossbow for hunting. They cant be called bowhunters since they are not bowhunting. Or call them crossbowers or whatever that sort calls what they do. I support the crossers even if I have zero interest in that sort of thing. I enjoy bowhunting too much to quit and take up a different sport. Bowhunting is not for everybody and some cant get it done with a bow and arrow so they need the stocked bolt slinger to enjoy success.

. I get my most enjoyment and satisfaction hunting small game like deer and black bear with all homemade traditional bowhunting gear that I design and make myself. Ive taken deer and black bear with a longbow I designed and made myself, using arrows I make using the feathers from turkey I killed as the fletchings. I use a homemade broadhead of my design that I make out of old saw blades. I made my finger tab out of the leather upper from an of pair of Sorel boots. This is the last black bear I killed with all homemade primitive trad archery gear. The smaller bear I killed with my truck on the drive home from the hunt. For large or dangerous game more robust than my 48 pound longbow would attempt, I will use a compound (a different human powered bow I have to draw and hold with only human effort at the time of the attempt to kill.) I am a bowhunter but at the same time I support the crossers to do thier different (non-bowhunting ) activity.

 

[Deadeye]

No, A crosser is the user of a crossbow for hunting. They cant be called bowhunters since they are not bowhunting. Or call them crossbowers or whatever that sort calls what they do. I support the crossers even if I have zero interest in that sort of thing. I enjoy bowhunting too much to quit and take up a different sport. Bowhunting is not for everybody and some cant get it done with a bow and arrow so they need the stocked bolt slinger to enjoy success.

Ron I got to say that is one of the most Pompus Azz Things I've read in a long time.

Crossbows have been around since the days of the Medieval Wars, and probably before that. The name CrossBOW indeed states what the are, a BOW that is set as a Cross instead of a Vertical Up/Down. Then to throw in that jab that "some can't get it done with a bow and arrow so they need the stocked bolt slinger to enjoy success" is BS.

I've hunted since I was 11 yrs old. I've hunted Archery since I was 13. I've shot plenty of Deer with bows ranging from Recurve to Modern Compounds (I say Modern because the Compounds of today are nowhere near what they were when Jennings introduced the Compound to the world). And yes this year I shot two with a Crossbow.

There was a time where my back wouldn't allow me to Stand/Draw/Hold a Vertical Bow and I decided to try a Crossbow. I found I liked it and bought a decent one and gave the borrowed one back to the guy that lent it to me. Today I could probably shoot that Vertical Bow that I gave to my SIL so if I chose to go back to one I could.

But Success has NOTHING to do with it.

I just enjoy using the Crossbow. It doesn't extend my range, in fact probably lowers it. I just Like It. If that doesn't fit YOUR definition of a Bow Hunter, then Tough Sh!t I'm not trying to impress you anyway.

 

[Ron Kulas]

AirBOW has the word "BOW" in its name. That is weak sauce. The words "Bowhunting" and "Bowhunter" were coined by Roy Case in the 1930's (Father of bowhunting) and mean a very specific things and are not subject to revision.

https://www.crosman.com/airbow

 

[Ron Kulas]

2 summers ago I was a vendor at a bowhunting event. Raven crossbows was there with their 200 yard challenge. I took the challenge and I videoed it (see attached video). I never touched or saw that stocked, bolt slinger prior to sitting down at the bench to shoot bolts at 200 yards. I hit both the 3 and 9 inch circle in my 6 bolts. so did man after man and woman after woman. Easy/peasy. Had they had just one 60 pound compound bow shared by all those same people and a target only 40 yards away and those same people try to hit the marks, the results would have been vastly different and for good reason.

I will say it again and do it slowly and clearly. I SUPPORT CROSSERS AND THEIR ACTIVITY EVEN IF I HAVE NO INTEREST IN IT BECAUSE I ENJOY BOWHUNTING TOO MUCH TO TAKE UP A DIFFERENT ACTIVITY. I SUPPORT ALL THE NON-BOWHUNTING WEAPONS LIKE LONG GUNS AND HANDGUNS AND CROSSBOWS.

 

[Kwood]

In the world we live in today, I think anyone that hunts legally and ethically should band together. Choice of weapon should not dictate ones ability to enjoy the outdoors.

I used a longbow for 10 years. With two small kids I did not have the time to practice how I would prefer to be effective with that bow. I still wanted to hunt as time allowed and took up a compound.

I think time in the outdoors is so precious that we should support any legal and ethical cause for doing more of it and getting kids involved.

I don’t prefer the air bow pictured above. But I support someone using one ethically if that deer gets their heart pumping and they have an opportunity to experience the outdoors.

Practice your craft, know your limits, have fun, and enjoy God’s creation.

And dang it, let’s stick together and do our best to get along!


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[Ron Kulas]

As I near 60 years of age and having already bowhunted for more than 45 years, I am aware that at some point due to age or illness or disability, I will have to quit the sport of bowhunting as I wont be able to get it done with a bow and arrow (bowhunting is not for everybody). At that point I will either have to ride the couch or become a crosser. I would gladly become a crosser. I WILL NOT pretend or try to pass myself off as a bowhunter or pretend that what Im doing is bowhunting. I would not be a poser. I would proudly embrace my new sport and weapon and openly admit that I am a crosser.

 

[dogghr]

No, A crosser is the user of a crossbow for hunting. They cant be called bowhunters since they are not bowhunting. Or call them crossbowers or whatever that sort calls what they do. I support the crossers even if I have zero interest in that sort of thing. I enjoy bowhunting too much to quit and take up a different sport. Bowhunting is not for everybody and some cant get it done with a bow and arrow so they need the stocked bolt slinger to enjoy success.

. I get my most enjoyment and satisfaction hunting small game like deer and black bear with all homemade traditional bowhunting gear that I design and make myself. Ive taken deer and black bear with a longbow I designed and made myself, using arrows I make using the feathers from turkey I killed as the fletchings. I use a homemade broadhead of my design that I make out of old saw blades. I made my finger tab out of the leather upper from an of pair of Sorel boots. This is the last black bear I killed with all homemade primitive trad archery gear. The smaller bear I killed with my truck on the drive home from the hunt. For large or dangerous game more robust than my 48 pound longbow would attempt, I will use a compound (a different human powered bow I have to draw and hold with only human effort at the time of the attempt to kill.) I am a bowhunter but at the same time I support the crossers to do thier different (non-bowhunting ) activity.

Wow that escalated quickly. Guess I was wrong in my last post as I suppose some do take this chit too seriosly. I'm out, guess Drycreek was correct after all.