APRs Statewide...Pro or Con??

[dogghr]

This past Feb I got to spend a week in FL with a good friend from north central PA. While golfing we covered a lot of topics from sports to women to deer hunting. My buddy and myself have been lifelong hunters. He being mostly just rifle. I remember when PA was first proposing heavy doe kills as well as APR in the state and he was so adamant about hating the idea that he even said as many did, that he would just quit hunting if it took affect.
Well flash forward a few years. He now says he was wrong and it was the best thing he'd ever seen to improve deer hunting. He no longer will shoot anything less than 20" spread and still scores each year. Needless to say, I was shocked having heard his rants in the past.
We have in this state limited areas with APR. While I don't hunt any of them anymore, I have friends with property adjacent to the areas and they see much more mature/better antlered bucks than what is the norm.

We limit buck kill on our property to certain age and points. While it has improved the average buck selection, it has had limited success due to no interest of surrounding properties.
I know when does were made legal statewide in my state, we would receive scorn as we checked in does from counties even in some with 100+ DSM. Over the years, that is now accepted by most and seldom does anyone not take a doe during rifle season at least. So change can occur.
But certainly my state, as are many others, have a hunting population that shoot whatever shows, young or old, even if they would like to have a larger rack buck. There are pros and cons of each thot and I can argue either way. Certainly the loss of the culture of hunting camps and everyone just happy to take a deer, to mostly individual hunting for the so-called mature deer, I think has hurt hunting recruitment. It is now all about the deer, and not the comradiery now.
But on the other hand, I like a balanced herd, and while I'm not a trophy hunter per se, I have always chased the largest buck I can find under the circumstances.

So my question to the wise, what are your thots on APRs statewide. Do they improve the hunt, or just cause frustration among the community. No fighting children , it's just an opinion.

 

[Bullwinkle]

There are three negatives that are significant in my mind

1. Your top end young bucks become targets

2. Cull bucks get a pass. I.e. Last year we shot a 180lb dressed, tooth aged at 3 bully 6ptr. He'd get a pass on most apr

3. People who don't have a lot of deer to pass. Sucks the fun out of hunting

I wish there was a way to shoot more bucks. By me we have plenty and our issue is burning your tag on a cull buck. They never seem to show themselves during fun season where you can share tags

 

[SwampCat]

Arkansas has has a 3 pt on one side antler restriction since about 96 or 97. I am not a fan of a lot of their latest management plans, but from my perspective, the initiation of the 3 pt restriction was the best thing that ever happened to AR deer hunting. Of course, not everyone agrees. Those folks who live in the delta area where deer get quite a bit larger than the rest of AR are not great fans of it because it does still permit harvest of their nice 1.5 yr old bucks. But, before the 3 pt APR, all their bucks were legal. The rest of the state, nearly half of the deer surveyed are 4 pt or less, so it protects these deer for another year. In the 1980's, the largest deer I saw was a 2.5 yr old 7 pt - which I killed. Spikes and forkhorns were the normal harvest. This was before the 3 pt rule. I expected great things when they first put the 3 pt rule into affect. It took a few years - maybe three or four to start seeing a difference. Today, we pass more 2.5 yr old 8 pts than we used to see spikes. Buck harvest dropped some in the early years of the regulation - but now, after the deer have caught up with the regulations, buck harvest is higher than it has ever been. A statewide 3 pt regulation is not nearly the same as select clubs practicing 3 pt rule on their own. When everyone in the state is operating under the same regs, it makes a huge difference. Success breeds success. As hunters begin to pass more deer, they pass more deer. In the first few years, we shot 6 pts and 2.5 yr old 8 pts. As we begin to see more and more of these type deer, we began to pass them more and more, restricting our harvest to 3.5 yr old and older bucks. We now pass a number of 3.5 yr old deer every year. After 20 years, the thought doesn't even occur to us to kill a 2.5 yr old 8 pt.

Personally, I would like to see a statewide 4 pt on one side APR. BUT, that would protect a number of what we would call cull bucks - to some extent (AR allows hunters under the age 0f 16 to take any buck), and for a few years, it would probably reduce buck harvest before the buck population caught up with the regs - but it would be all good in my opinion - after a few years. Yes, a lot of folks don't have a lot of deer to pass, but after a few years of the APR in place, they have more deer to pass than they have ever seen.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

I hunt in an APR area (3 on a side), and I am a big fan of it. However, I don't think it's changed people's deer standards much. Most people here won't hesitate to shoot a buck with 3 on a side even if it's a yearling. As a result, I still see very few bucks over 2 years old. I won't shame people for shooting these bucks though, I believe they should harvest whatever makes them happy.
It's been a few years since the restrictions were put in place, and I'm seeing decent results but I think it will take many more years until the hunters start passing all yearlings and more 2 year olds. I could see one buck tag being more effective than APR.


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[Fish]

State owned waters with a 14" size limit on largemouths produce a lot of 13 1/2" bass. That size limit ultimately limits the size of fish you will catch.
How i long for the days when my hunting friends glorified 5 pointers. We had so much fun.

 

[SwampCat]

State owned waters with a 14" size limit on largemouths produce a lot of 13 1/2" bass. That size limit ultimately limits the size of fish you will catch.
How i long for the days when my hunting friends glorified 5 pointers. We had so much fun.

You are correct when it comes to fish. You might be correct when it comes to deer in high populations. Some of the deer densities folks speak of on this forum are beyond my comprehension. Most of our state is probably around the 20 deer psm number - 30 deer psm in the good areas.

 

[IkemanTx]

You are correct when it comes to fish. You might be correct when it comes to deer in high populations. Some of the deer densities folks speak of on this forum are beyond my comprehension. Most of our state is probably around the 20 deer psm number - 30 deer psm in the good areas.

The region and counties I hunt in were estimated recently to be around 3.2 DPSM....
I feel ya on the ridiculously high deer densities.

In our area, Texas Parks and Wildlife implemented antler restrictions 8 or so years ago, but Texas did their AR's very differently. Instead of focusing on a specific number of points, they focused on a more age related antler feature... width. The restrictions they implemented require a 13" inside spread (outside the ears). This targets, typically, a 3.5 year or older buck with our nutrients and genetics. Hunters were PISSED when it first came out and had dire predictions for hunting and herd population. 6-8 years later, even the county I grew up in (quite possibly one of the worst counties in the state for hunting) has had about a 25" increase in average buck score. That isn't a small change at all. There still aren't many deer numbers wise, but it isn't uncommon for a guy to shoot 125-135" every couple years.

A decade ago, 110" was the talk of the town.
I am a big fan of AR's after seeing the change, though I don't believe the ones based on points actually do anything to address age structure. I really feel like there is no better way to set them up than the width requirement. That single feature is proven to be the most related to age. Yes there are bucks that genetically won't get that wide, and yes a few bucks will go wide earlier than 3.5..... but, the vast majority of bucks will fall into the intended age structure of the AR.

 

[dogghr]

Interesting read. I should clarify, the areas of my state that are under APR regs also include width. They have 8 pt min with 14 in spread min. Can't get individual statistics that I can find on success in those areas but most have been implemented 5+ yrs. I do know that hunters here as a whole, tend to pass more younger bucks each year. I think in part they are willing to do so inadvertantly as doe is allowed during rifle season as an option. Meat in the freezer is main goal of most of state hunters. Its a hard choice on APR and as said, sometimes I miss the just shoot a deer and have fun thinking. While we try to maintain goals at the farm, it certainly has never been a hard one, and I have certainly taken buck that I wanted to at the time with no regrets. Never truly been a horn hunter.

 

[SwampCat]

The region and counties I hunt in were estimated recently to be around 3.2 DPSM....
I feel ya on the ridiculously high deer densities.

In our area, Texas Parks and Wildlife implemented antler restrictions 8 or so years ago, but Texas did their AR's very differently. Instead of focusing on a specific number of points, they focused on a more age related antler feature... width. The restrictions they implemented require a 13" inside spread (outside the ears). This targets, typically, a 3.5 year or older buck with our nutrients and genetics. Hunters were PISSED when it first came out and had dire predictions for hunting and herd population. 6-8 years later, even the county I grew up in (quite possibly one of the worst counties in the state for hunting) has had about a 25" increase in average buck score. That isn't a small change at all. There still aren't many deer numbers wise, but it isn't uncommon for a guy to shoot 125-135" every couple years.

A decade ago, 110" was the talk of the town.
I am a big fan of AR's after seeing the change, though I don't believe the ones based on points actually do anything to address age structure. I really feel like there is no better way to set them up than the width requirement. That single feature is proven to be the most related to age. Yes there are bucks that genetically won't get that wide, and yes a few bucks will go wide earlier than 3.5..... but, the vast majority of bucks will fall into the intended age structure of the AR.

The 3 pt apr in AR was proven to shift the bulk of the harvest from 1.5 year old deer to 2.5 yr old deer. Mainbeam length and width restrictions were enacted on 16 of the wma's here - but were not enacted statewide considering half the state still allows the use of dogs during deer season - width and mainbeam length restrictions probably would have resulted in a lot of violations. At my own property, we restrict our harvest to 3.5 yr old deer and older. That usually is a 120" deer in my woods. I think for the average, one week a year hunter, the point restrictions are much easier to realistically implement on a widespread basis. I have deer hunted for fifty years and it is still difficult to determine width in a lot of cases. Then add in less experienced hunters. Personally, I would like to see a 4 pt antler restriction, but, with the recent discovery of cwd in our state, we are going to go the other way with the apr being removed in the cwd zone.

And yes, prior to the initiation of the 3 pt antler restriction - a 125" deer was something someone killed on an out of state hunt to kansas. Before they started the doe slaughter here, we killed a 125 to 150 deer every year on my place - but since overall herd numbers have been cut in half around my area - those bigger bucks are becoming fewer and fewer.

 

[SwampCat]

Interesting read. I should clarify, the areas of my state that are under APR regs also include width. They have 8 pt min with 14 in spread min. Can't get individual statistics that I can find on success in those areas but most have been implemented 5+ yrs. I do know that hunters here as a whole, tend to pass more younger bucks each year. I think in part they are willing to do so inadvertantly as doe is allowed during rifle season as an option. Meat in the freezer is main goal of most of state hunters. Its a hard choice on APR and as said, sometimes I miss the just shoot a deer and have fun thinking. While we try to maintain goals at the farm, it certainly has never been a hard one, and I have certainly taken buck that I wanted to at the time with no regrets. Never truly been a horn hunter.

I truly understand your view. In my own home state of AR, I hunted from 1980 until about 1998 and killed one 7 pt, one 8 pt, and the rest spikes and forkhorns. We were buck hunters back then and shot the first deer with a horn on its head. I didnt have any preconceived notion before deer season that I was going to even see a 100" deer, much less kill one. Then came the APR. After a few years, I started to see a few basket racked 8 pts and was having to pass all kinds of spikes and forkhorns. I had never passed a buck in thirty years of deer hunting. Then, four or five years into the apr, a few of those basket racked 8 pt deer started making it to 3.5 yr old 120" deer. But, for the most part, being a public land hunter and lease hunter, we still shot legal deer - six pts and small 8 pts. It wasnt until I bought my own land in 2004 that we actually made a shift to targeting mature bucks - and that took a few years. And we were able to do that for reasons in addition to APR's. Game cameras were becoming common by 2005 and they showed us that yes, there were some nice bucks out there. And secondly, there were now a proliferation of hunting shows on tv where the hunters were targeting bigger deer. It was the perfect storm for me. The 3 pt restriction gave us a real possibility of older bucks in the herd by making everyone in the state have to pass younger bucks, then I bought my own land where we could manage our own deer a little bit, we put out game cams that showed us there truly were some decent bucks in the area, there were hunters all over the state engaging in quality deer management in large part due to hunting shows on tv, and we were probably at our peak deer numbers then - allowing quite a few bucks to escape harvest and grow even bigger.

I begrudge no one for shooting a young buck. I still do on occassion when hunting my lease or public public because I like deer meat and I see more bucks than does. I consider the does to be the supplier of our future deer and I would much rather put a buck in the freezer than a doe. Every area is different and every hunter is different. Life is short - do what works for you.

 

[j-bird]

I'm not a fan of APR's.....a hunter wants to take a young buck....so be it. Indiana only allows you to take a single antlered deer the entire deer season....so you better make sure it's the one you want. I let rookie hunters shoot any deer they want. Experienced hunters have a few rules. Can APR's affect allowing young bucks to grow? Sure it can.....but that's an individual choice to be made in my opinion (or in my case my rules because it's my place - don't like it.....hunt someplace else). What kills me is how folks shoot young bucks and then complain about not seeing bigger/older ones.....duh! APR's are not going to lead to big bucks behind every tree like some may think. I would think APR's could also impact the antlerless harvest - driving it up out of lack of options in some areas. If you have a declining deer herd and putting APR's in place.....sounds like a bad combination to me. I know on my place many yearling bucks will support 6 to 8 point racks.....so if you have a 3 or even 4 point APR - they are still going to die.......what good does that do anyone? Sure it may save a few dink bucks that come from a stressed environment, born late or whatever, but a healthy young buck on good habitat can easily support a 3 point antler on one side from what I have seen. Now I realize that may vary based on region so that may not apply to everyone....but you get my point.

 

[CTM1]

In the NYS the over whelming majority of bucks killed were 1.5 years old. In the heavily hunted areas of the Catskills where public land hunting is huge almost every buck I knew that was getting tagged in my area were small bucks, spikes through little five pointers. A basket six or eight would be taken here and there but it was pretty rare that someone connected with something decent.

Now that they have implemented the 3pt rule on one side I honestly believe it has improved the age structure and that state is saying so. We are seeing more basket rack bucks and at least getting pictures of larger bucks. My home area is an army of orange come hunting season but I think we are drawing them because several years ago a group of us agreed to stop shooting does. So the does are hanging tight on our side of the mountain during the invasion of orange.

There has been push back against the 3pt rule and many were worried the state was going to cave a reverse the policy. In my opinion NYS cares nothing of the deer population or the hunters experience, but only the money generated from the sale of licenses.

 

[SwampCat]

I'm not a fan of APR's.....a hunter wants to take a young buck....so be it. Indiana only allows you to take a single antlered deer the entire deer season....so you better make sure it's the one you want. I let rookie hunters shoot any deer they want. Experienced hunters have a few rules. Can APR's affect allowing young bucks to grow? Sure it can.....but that's an individual choice to be made in my opinion (or in my case my rules because it's my place - don't like it.....hunt someplace else). What kills me is how folks shoot young bucks and then complain about not seeing bigger/older ones.....duh! APR's are not going to lead to big bucks behind every tree like some may think. I would think APR's could also impact the antlerless harvest - driving it up out of lack of options in some areas. If you have a declining deer herd and putting APR's in place.....sounds like a bad combination to me. I know on my place many yearling bucks will support 6 to 8 point racks.....so if you have a 3 or even 4 point APR - they are still going to die.......what good does that do anyone? Sure it may save a few dink bucks that come from a stressed environment, born late or whatever, but a healthy young buck on good habitat can easily support a 3 point antler on one side from what I have seen. Now I realize that may vary based on region so that may not apply to everyone....but you get my point.

I agree - there is a time and place for APR's. In my area - at least half the bucks are protected by a 3 pt restriction. Also in my state, we have an abundance of public ground - which could very easily be overharvested if there weren't a 3 pt restriction. In addition, my home state, Arkansas - is a two buck state - even with modern gun. Also, our seasons are fairly long - averaging a month or more with modern weapons, and five months with archery. I see the antler restrictions as a little bit of having your cake and eating it too. You get lopnger seasons, higher bag limits, larger horns, and just as good a chance of killing a buck as before the apr.

You can do all the passing of bucks on your own property if you want to, but if your neighbors don't buy into that theory - all those bucks you passed could well be for naught. In addition, the 3 pt antler restriction insures a decent number of bucks will live through the season - therefore, you can enjoy longer seasons and higher bag limits - because half the bucks are protected from harvest (except for youth) - while still maintaining a decent number of bucks in the woods. And a lot of hunters are concerned the antler restrictions are going to result in them killing fewer deer. In AR at least, that did not prove to be true. After a couple of years, after the apr's went into effect, the buck harvest was as high or higher than it was pre-apr - the only difference was the harvest was made up of 6 to 10 pts instead of spikes and forkhorns.

 

[j-bird]

I'm going from memory here.....but even before we imposed our "rule" of "wide as his ears" in 2008 I think I can't recall a single antlered deer that was harvested on my place that a 3 pt APR would have protected otherwise. I know for 100% certainty ALL the antlered deer my son and I have taken would not have been saved by a 3pt APR. It might have saved a deer from my buddy a time or two, but again, over a decade or more of hunting it wouldn't have made a difference here.

An APR here would need to be a 4 point one to save deer on my place - I don't say that to brag or anything, just to show how the rule would have to be applied to have any real impact in my situation. Now that I think about it - that may not be a half bad idea......maybe even push it to a 5 point rule......hummmmmm....... What is funny is even at 5 I have examples of where a young 2 year old deer would be legal and yet a 130~140" 8 pointer that is 3 or 4 years old would have to walk.......man.....that would not only suck, but accomplish the opposite of the desired result. Yep - APR's surely are not bullet proof.

Bets thing my state ever did was implement our "One Buck Rule". You get 1 antlered deer.....period! Doesn't matter the season or the weapon....you get 1! We also do not allow party hunting. so you put your tag on a buck it better be the one you want. We used to allow one buck with a firearm and another with archery equipment. The change allowed some bucks to walk and shifted to a doe heavy harvest which we needed.....at the time.

 

[Triple C]

My state has numerous counties with various antler restrictions. In non APR counties, the rule statewide is that of the 2 bucks allowed, 1 must have at least 4 pts on one side. Guys constantly debate the pros and cons of APRs on the local forum. Personally, we limit buck harvests on our place to 3.5 and older. So we watch a good number of bucks disappear over the course of a season. Our firearms season is very long...mid October to 2nd Saturday in January. That's a lot of time for young bucks to get shot. From a selfish perspective, I would prefer that young bucks get a pass. But, I own my own land. And, I'm not in competition with a bunch of club members to harvest a decent buck or a couple of doe(s) for the freezer. As far as imposing my wishes for limiting harvests to only mature bucks on my neighbors I don't think I want to fall in that camp. The club that leases the property on my north border has changed my view on this subject. They shoot whatever they desire with no rules regarding antler size, other than the 4 on one side on 1 of 2 buck tags, and they absolutely love deer hunting. Same club has been on this property since the late 70s. The oldest gentleman is in his mid 80s. He lives to deer hunt. He and his wife often spend weeks at the time at their camp during the season. He still uses a climber. And he gets as big a thrill out of harvesting a fork horn as he does a mature buck. From my observation, he and his fellow club members actually enjoy deer hunting much more than I do.

I spend more time on habitat improvements and hunt when the mood hits and the weather suits me. Between my 2 sons, grandsons and me, we harvested one single doe in 2016. Passed every buck we saw and should have taken a few doe but never did. Invited guests harvested 1 doe and one yearling buck. My neighbors to the north of me harvested multiple bucks and plenty of does. And we're both happy with the way the other hunts. When I bought my property, my desire was to convince the neighbors to adopt a let em walk attitude with bucks. But, having got to know a few of the guys in the adjoining club, I've changed my mind. They remind me of the camaraderie and camp experience of hunting clubs I was once a part of when my boys were growing up and they love deer hunting as much as anyone I've met.

 

[SwampCat]

I'm going from memory here.....but even before we imposed our "rule" of "wide as his ears" in 2008 I think I can't recall a single antlered deer that was harvested on my place that a 3 pt APR would have protected otherwise. I know for 100% certainty ALL the antlered deer my son and I have taken would not have been saved by a 3pt APR. It might have saved a deer from my buddy a time or two, but again, over a decade or more of hunting it wouldn't have made a difference here.

An APR here would need to be a 4 point one to save deer on my place - I don't say that to brag or anything, just to show how the rule would have to be applied to have any real impact in my situation. Now that I think about it - that may not be a half bad idea......maybe even push it to a 5 point rule......hummmmmm....... What is funny is even at 5 I have examples of where a young 2 year old deer would be legal and yet a 130~140" 8 pointer that is 3 or 4 years old would have to walk.......man.....that would not only suck, but accomplish the opposite of the desired result. Yep - APR's surely are not bullet proof.

Bets thing my state ever did was implement our "One Buck Rule". You get 1 antlered deer.....period! Doesn't matter the season or the weapon....you get 1! We also do not allow party hunting. so you put your tag on a buck it better be the one you want. We used to allow one buck with a firearm and another with archery equipment. The change allowed some bucks to walk and shifted to a doe heavy harvest which we needed.....at the time.

I agree - every area is different. The fact that you have good, rich soils that produce big deer in shorter periods of time probably create the same effect - or even better - on antler sizes. We cant produce deer like what you see in Indiana in such a short amount of time. We need to put age on them. Around my area, a 3.5 yr old buck is probably going to average 115" to 120" with a live weight around 160 - 165 lbs. i would not doubt your 2.5 yr old deer would be that big. There is mixed feelings here on our bag limits and season lengths. A lot of folks like the opportunity for a second buck - allowing them to be more selective. The horn hunters would like to see a one buck limit. A lot of folks like the longer season, giving a better chance to hit the rut and the opportunity to hunt more at liesure without having to take off work. There are pros and cons to all of it. Personally, I dont hunt with a modern gun and rarely do I kill a buck. I leave that to my family members hunting my ground. We dont shoot does on my place either - just dont have enough deer in general any more.

 

[SwampCat]

My state has numerous counties with various antler restrictions. In non APR counties, the rule statewide is that of the 2 bucks allowed, 1 must have at least 4 pts on one side. Guys constantly debate the pros and cons of APRs on the local forum. Personally, we limit buck harvests on our place to 3.5 and older. So we watch a good number of bucks disappear over the course of a season. Our firearms season is very long...mid October to 2nd Saturday in January. That's a lot of time for young bucks to get shot. From a selfish perspective, I would prefer that young bucks get a pass. But, I own my own land. And, I'm not in competition with a bunch of club members to harvest a decent buck or a couple of doe(s) for the freezer. As far as imposing my wishes for limiting harvests to only mature bucks on my neighbors I don't think I want to fall in that camp. The club that leases the property on my north border has changed my view on this subject. They shoot whatever they desire with no rules regarding antler size, other than the 4 on one side on 1 of 2 buck tags, and they absolutely love deer hunting. Same club has been on this property since the late 70s. The oldest gentleman is in his mid 80s. He lives to deer hunt. He and his wife often spend weeks at the time at their camp during the season. He still uses a climber. And he gets as big a thrill out of harvesting a fork horn as he does a mature buck. From my observation, he and his fellow club members actually enjoy deer hunting much more than I do.

I spend more time on habitat improvements and hunt when the mood hits and the weather suits me. Between my 2 sons, grandsons and me, we harvested one single doe in 2016. Passed every buck we saw and should have taken a few doe but never did. Invited guests harvested 1 doe and one yearling buck. My neighbors to the north of me harvested multiple bucks and plenty of does. And we're both happy with the way the other hunts. When I bought my property, my desire was to convince the neighbors to adopt a let em walk attitude with bucks. But, having got to know a few of the guys in the adjoining club, I've changed my mind. They remind me of the camaraderie and camp experience of hunting clubs I was once a part of when my boys were growing up and they love deer hunting as much as anyone I've met.

I agree. Our state has gone to longer seasons and fewer folks take off work to hunt. Used to be there was a fight at work to see who got to take off first week of deer season. Almost everyone camped. Now, not so much. I agree, it seems like a lot of the excitement is gone.

 

[j-bird]

We have a 16 day general firearm season.....right in the middle of the rut in the second half of November, followed by another 16 day Season of muzzleloader (scopes are legal so they are essentially single shot modern firearms) with a continuous bow/X-bow season for 3 months (Oct, Nov, Dec). We kill 18% of the annual harvest in just 2 days here and 65% of the harvest in that general firearms season!! That first Saturday and Sunday of general firearms season can be interesting..... I already have my vacation schedule booked for November!!!!

 

[SwampCat]

We have a 16 day general firearm season.....right in the middle of the rut in the second half of November, followed by another 16 day Season of muzzleloader (scopes are legal so they are essentially single shot modern firearms) with a continuous bow/X-bow season for 3 months (Oct, Nov, Dec). We kill 18% of the annual harvest in just 2 days here and 65% of the harvest in that general firearms season!! That first Saturday and Sunday of general firearms season can be interesting..... I already have my vacation schedule booked for November!!!!

We used to have about a 16 day firearm season and pretty much everyone was in the woods that whole first week. Our season usually opens around the 10th or so of Nov - and that will hit pretty close to the peak of the rut statewide. But we are in the south part of the state and better than 75% of our big deer come the last week or two - in December. If our statewide season was only 16 days, starting the Second Sat of Nov like it usually does - we would rarely kill a decent deer. That is one of the advantages of a longer season - it better suits those from north to south.

I am not sure most folks hunt that many more days even since the season length almost doubled. They just don't take time off to do it.

 

[Tap]

I was a big supporter of APRs when it was 1st proposed here in Pa. I'd been practicing my own limitations (based on age) for several frustrating years. I'd let 1.5 year olds walk and the neighbors killed them. And, wow, were they ever proud of that 3 point... so proud that they'd saw the "rack" off and toss it in a corner of the garage.
Now, fast forward several years. I see more bucks and I see older bucks. But I'm not sure I really see that many better bucks when considering the antler quality. I think that we may be "high-grading" our bucks. The ones with the "better" genetic traits are being removed at an early age while the lower quality bucks are protected and continue to breed.
Although not a major issue, I would like to see Pa adopt an exemption for certain buck harvests that don't meet the restriction. If a buck has developed adult teeth, then the hunter should not be fined. If a hunter shoots a sub-legal racked buck, he would be required to present it to a warden. If that deer has adult teeth there would be no fine, if it has immature teeth then a fine would be levied. I'm talking about tooth replacement which is proof of age class, I'm not talking about tooth wear which is subjective. I see some quite mature bucks in my area that do not make the APR. I should be able to shoot, and tag one. If I misjudge age, then I'd be liable for a fine.