All Pelletized lime created equal? Fertilizer Q as well

[Travis Aasen]

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening, -

I have a first year no-till food plot in "process" in the North Woods of Wisconsin. Goal is essentially to plant some Rye, Oats, Clover, radish this fall. The summer buckwheat was a failure due to deer browse and a PH that didn't move off the initial soil test of 5.5.

I used liquid Lime, liquid calcium, and liquid foliar at time of planting and applied the amount recommended by the seller. 7 weeks later my soil test came back as........5.6. You can say 1. I was disappointed and 2. lesson learned that MAYBE Liquid lime should maybe used AFTER you get an initial food plot in the neighborhood of a corrected PH - That is just an opinion.

Next steps
Revised Soil test came back yesterday with recommendation of 3750 lbs lime per acre.
My food plots total maybe 3/4 of an acre this year (carving these out in the woods has been a LOT of work), I put 650 lbs of pelletized lime from menards on the plots last weekend. In two weeks (Weekend August 6 - weather permitting) I plan to put the remaining lime down, terminate the 8-10" buckwheat and plant the Rye, Oats, Clover, radish. My question is all pelletized lime created equal? All seems to be about $4.75 a 40lb bag. Have a Tractor Supply, Menards, Home Depot, Walmart nearby. All carry something or another.

Fertilizer recommendation confuses me a tad. The soil test recommends that I put down 34-0-0 and a 0-0-60? I've been looking for these two bags in WI and can't seem to find them? What am missing?

Appreciate thoughts

 

[Bowhunter]

Two things I would mention that I learned the hard way.

1. For starting out new plots that were created in the timber I would plant strictly buckwheat for at least one year before trying anything else. Especially if your PH levels are way off. You can possibly get three plantings in on one year if you time it right with the buckwheat.
   
2. Rather than going the bagged lime route, it's much less expensive to go to your local ag and farm store and get it bulk and either have them spread it for you or you can rent a spreader trailer and do it yourself. Not sure if your fields are accessible by these means or not, but this is the way to go if you can. Also it's not the end of the world if you add half the lime one year, and half the next.

Any decent ag and farm store should carry those two fertilizers that your looking for.

 

[David Martin]

You and I are in almost the exact same situation! 3/4 an acre of 5.5 ph soil in the woods that are really hard to carve out.

First of all, liquid lime does not increase or change your soil ph. All it does is make it easier for the plants to absorb nutrients for a short period of time. It's just a very short term alternative and I'm not quite sure I trust it anyway. I have seen some good results with PlotBoost and PlotStart from DeerGro from some people online.

Have you considered using the powdered ag lime? From what I understand, the pelletized lime take a lot longer to dissolve into the soil. I had to buy a couple tons of Ag lime from Tractor Supply for $3.99 a bag. But to answer your question, the type of lime you want to buy is Dolomitic Limestone. I think they're all pretty much the same, it just depends on the price and whether you want pulverized or pelletized lime.

As for fertilizer... I have no idea. All I've ever heard is to put down what your soil test recommends.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Lime is pulverized powdered rock, so most different types of lime have about the same value per pound, and acidic soil conditions need a lot of lbs, so it's best to use the cheapest options that are available in order to be able to afford more lbs. Liquid lime is the most expensive option, but as mentioned by David, it's available almost immediately for the current crop to use. Pelletized lime is all pretty much equal per weight.
I'd try to get a lime truck in to the plot, it's much cheaper, and with conditions like you mentioned I'd put the whole truckload on the 3/4 acre, there's not much danger of getting too much lime in 5.5 ph. I know a guy that sells lime and he put 26 tons on an acre of his own land, and his plot was the nicest in the neighborhood. Here's a clip of a truck spreading in one acre.

Separate bags of 34-0-0 and 0-0-60 fertilizer is just a work around to getting it all in one bag of something numbered like a 15-0-24 mix. So, the numbers of 34-0-0 and 0-0-60 mean that you need some nitrogen, no phosphorus, and a lot of potassium. I'd see what the local feed mill has available with no phosphorus and use that stock item in comparable amounts to arrive close the the numbers specified.
Most suppliers allow you to actually order the specific numbers specified on a soil test if you have the time to wait for it, but I usually try to buy stock and not have to order and wait.

 

[Travis Aasen]

Thanks gentleman! Unfortunately, i can't get an AG truck into my plot. So, bag by bag and a push spreader is my ticket for pelletized lime and shaking the old bag will be the ticket for AG lime.

I was always under the impression that AG lime takes longer to get in the soil and Pelletized is the more immediate? do I have this backward? Cost isn't a concern (cheaper is always better), but just want it done right the first time. I feel I kind of failed with the buckwheat and liquid lime back in June.

 

[Elkaddict]

I can’t get a lime buggy into our plots either. I think we’ve spread 60+ tons on our 17 acres. Some of our plots had ph in the low 4s. We’ve used pellet lime and ag lime. Ag lime was spread with a manure spreader.

Buckwheat will grow in low ph plots, but I can tell you it was pathetic until we got into the 5s. Amazingly, even the pathetic foot tall buckwheat attracted deer that first year. Today it would be at least waist high…without any fertilizer.

Lime takes time, effort and money, but it’s worth it. One interesting thing I’ve observed is a big change in ph has been followed by dealing with a host of new weeds that thrive in better soils.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Thanks gentleman! Unfortunately, i can't get an AG truck into my plot. So, bag by bag and a push spreader is my ticket for pelletized lime and shaking the old bag will be the ticket for AG lime.

I was always under the impression that AG lime takes longer to get in the soil and Pelletized is the more immediate? do I have this backward? Cost isn't a concern (cheaper is always better), but just want it done right the first time. I feel I kind of failed with the buckwheat and liquid lime back in June.

It depends on the particle size. The pell I've used in the past is always a finer grind than ag lime. If you're spreading by hand, I like the pell, even after the 25% price hike over crushed limestone. It's just easier on the hands and doesn't compact like crushed lime.

Take that for what it's worth. I don't need tons plural per acre. I only lime until my weeds go away and the clover thickens up.

 

[RGrizzzz]

https://extension.psu.edu/beware-of-liquid-calcium-products

 

[Mennoniteman]

Thanks gentleman! Unfortunately, i can't get an AG truck into my plot. So, bag by bag and a push spreader is my ticket for pelletized lime and shaking the old bag will be the ticket for AG lime.

I was always under the impression that AG lime takes longer to get in the soil and Pelletized is the more immediate? do I have this backward? Cost isn't a concern (cheaper is always better), but just want it done right the first time. I feel I kind of failed with the buckwheat and liquid lime back in June.

Pelletized and AG lime is generally the same thing. I have linked two University studies, the one shows that it's slightly better, the other shows that it's slightly less effective, basically saying that it's the same.

Here's a quote from the University of Kentucky that sums it up nicely;
"The recommended rate of pelletized lime should be based on the neutralizing value of the lime and will probably be about 75 to 80% of that for average-quality bulk ag lime. Based on research from several states, it appears that the pelletized lime reacts no faster to raise the soil pH than good quality ag lime applied at recommended rates. In fact, incubation studies at Michigan State University found the pelletized lime to have a slower rate of reaction". http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Agronomy/Extension/ssnv/ssvl189.htm
https://www.canr.msu.edu/field_crops/uploads/archive/pell_lime_cssi_series.pdf

 

[Travis Aasen]

Great articles Mennoniteman. -- Thanks for sharing

 

[dogghr]

On a small plot pellet lime is much more practical. Doubt a supplier would even bother to apply powder lime from a truck without some crazy charge. They both work nearly equal and for a foodplotter, would hardly notice the diff.
Certainly I use powder applied by truck on my fields but my woods plot I've used pellet w no noticeable difference. Heck my first 1 ac plot I applied lime with a bag spreader after the pull behind broke. High tech stuff with a bedspring pulled behind atv. Plot still exists after 12 years.
For new plots, especially within the woods, I'd plant a rotation of several years of RC, WR, and Oats if you want, all of which work well with poor soils.
Ignore the soil test for now and apply 19-19-19 as its easily available, probably no less than 6 bags. Add the pellet lime at planting of 6-10 bags. Recheck soil test next year. Its a food plot, don't need to get too picky. And put up an exclusion cage, you be surprise the real growth that is browsed off. Good luck.

 

[Mennoniteman]

On a small plot pellet lime is much more practical. Doubt a supplier would even bother to apply powder lime from a truck without some crazy charge. They both work nearly equal and for a foodplotter, would hardly notice the diff.
Certainly I use powder applied by truck on my fields but my woods plot I've used pellet w no noticeable difference. Heck my first 1 ac plot I applied lime with a bag spreader after the pull behind broke. High tech stuff with a bedspring pulled behind atv. Plot still exists after 12 years.
For new plots, especially within the woods, I'd plant a rotation of several years of RC, WR, and Oats if you want, all of which work well with poor soils.
Ignore the soil test for now and apply 19-19-19 as its easily available, probably no less than 6 bags. Add the pellet lime at planting of 6-10 bags. Recheck soil test next year. Its a food plot, don't need to get too picky. And put up an exclusion cage, you be surprise the real growth that is browsed off. Good luck.

I agree with you on all of that, but I'd probably try to find fertilizer that's lower in phosphorus, the existing phosphorus numbers must be crazy high to net a zero on a soil test, and the sooner you start moving the numbers in the right direction, the better your crops will look.

 

[Travis Aasen]

My local feedmill has everything. Damn these plots are more expensive to prepare, plant, maintain and fertilize than I ever imagined!

 

[Mennoniteman]

A food plot takes a bit to get going, but, if started right, after the initial expense they often tend to cruise along for a few years with little input, especially a northern clover plot.