Watched several videos about liquid lime and specifically about "Plot Dr". So is it snake oil?

CTM1

CTM1

Active Member
Hard to believe a 2.5 gallon jug is equivalent to 1 ton of ag lime.

Saw one vid that said it only moved his PH .1% Of course you have to assume the person did his soil testing correctly and applied the product properly.

Most of the more scientific vids/articles I saw and read about so called liquid lime were really testing liquid calcium and not what Plot Dr. says is their liquid carbonate.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
 
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Yes. It does adjust pH if you apply a lot of it, but it is by far the most expensive way to adjust pH. I could see a farmer using liquid lime or fertilizer to salvage a failing crop but he is doing a tradeoff between the value of the crop and the cost of saving it.

The least expensive way to adjust pH is ag lime, if you have a way to spread it. I rent a lime buggy from the coop. Folks with small plots sometime use pelletized lime. It is more expensive per ton, but you can use any broadcast spreader to apply it.

I read lots of discussions on it. I can't make the math workout 2.5 gal = 1 ton. Ag lime does vary in CCE from location to location. It is up in the 90% range in my area.
 
Lime is a mineral; aka pulverized rock, and because it's a mineral, it's value in raising soil PH is determined by weight, therefore the most weight for the cheapest price is the best value. However, there's another factor to be considered, and that is the particle size of the lime, which determines how fast it's going to act in raising PH. In an equal weight over an equal area a smaller particle size will quickly lower PH but not last as long, a larger particle size will raise PH a lot slower but last a lot longer. Farmers want a medium particle size so that it works over a period of several years and they apply it every few years. Liquid lime can raise the PH very fast but it won't last very long.
 
RGrizzzz said:
extension.psu.edu

Beware of Liquid Calcium Products

Do the math and consider the chemistry before investing in a liquid calcium product for your soil.
extension.psu.edu extension.psu.edu
Click to expand...
I previously read that article and that is what I based my OP on. Per the article liquid calcium does nothing to change PH, it is the carbonate that changes PH and that is what this Plot Dr claims to be, carbonate.

My fields still have poor PH so in the bigger ones I have been doing Rye. I have a few .25 acre fields where the PH is also very low and I was hoping to get it up quickly so I can get something to grow other than Rye. I was hoping to still be able to get some rape down and growing and clover for next spring.

Only one company in my area that deals in Ag lime and they are now at $65 a ton delivered and spread which I will pay but they will not deliver because of the amount of rain we have had over the last several weeks. They are afraid of burying the truck and I have to admit there are places where my tractor is fighting to not get stuck. They said they want to hold off until the ground is solid. As we know any lime added for this growing season will not kick in for some time.
 
Mennoniteman said:
Lime is a mineral; aka pulverized rock, and because it's a mineral, it's value in raising soil PH is determined by weight, therefore the most weight for the cheapest price is the best value. However, there's another factor to be considered, and that is the particle size of the lime, which determines how fast it's going to act in raising PH. In an equal weight over an equal area a smaller particle size will quickly lower PH but not last as long, a larger particle size will raise PH a lot slower but last a lot longer. Farmers want a medium particle size so that it works over a period of several years and they apply it every few years. Liquid lime can raise the PH very fast but it won't last very long.
Click to expand...
Some years ago I had this same company spread nine tons but plotting kind of went by the way side the last few years and I have been just doing ryr. So if this liquid lime carbonate works as you and yoderiac say I figured it might be worth it to spend the money on two or three jugs to help get something other than rye to grow and get the Ag lime down as soon as the ground can take the truck.

Thanks Guys.
 
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CTM1 said:
Some years ago I had this same company spread nine tons but plotting kind of went by the way side the last few years and I have been just doing ryr. So if this liquid lime carbonate works as you and yoderiac say I figured it might be worth it to spend the money on two or three jugs to help get something other than rye to grow and get the Ag lime down as soon as the ground can take the truck.

Thanks Guys.
Click to expand...
FYI, Hydrated lime works faster than limestone or dolomitic lime to raise pH levels quickly on small plots, and it's way cheaper than liquid lime. I spread it downwind by hand out of a tilted 5 gallon bucket, but be careful as it is more caustic than regular lime. Don't wet your hands until you are done, moisture and hydrated lime together will eat your skin, use dry hands and it's not a problem. Wear gloves just to be safe.
 
RGrizzzz said:
I'd just wait until the lime buggy can get into the plots.
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Completely agree. Another factor to consider is your soil type. Both lime and nutrients move very fast through sandy soil, and much slower through clay soils.

I'm not sure why folks are so worried about fast acting lime in most cases. From my point of view, lime is a long-term investment. If we choose crops wisely, we can match our crops to our soil while the lime is amending the pH. For example, Winter Rye will grow in quite infertile soil with low pH. Buckwheat will do the same for summer. I find planting WR with Crimson Clover in the fall in new plots gives plenty of deer food while waiting for the lime to work so that you can plant more sensitive crops if you want to.

From a deer's perspective, cereal grains, like WR, are used when they are young and succulent. Once they begin to get rank, deer stop using them. They may hit the seed heads somewhat but they are not a favored food. So, one guy with high fertility soils that are pH adjusted might get 6' tall WR, but the guy with a new plot in WR that is not highly fertile and has a low pH gets most of the same benefit from a deer perspective.
 
CTM1 said:
Some years ago I had this same company spread nine tons but plotting kind of went by the way side the last few years and I have been just doing ryr. So if this liquid lime carbonate works as you and yoderiac say I figured it might be worth it to spend the money on two or three jugs to help get something other than rye to grow and get the Ag lime down as soon as the ground can take the truck.

Thanks Guys.
Click to expand...
When I said "it works", I meant that if you apply enough of it, it will adjust pH. It would take many hundreds of gallons to match one ton of our local lime with a high CCE. My "Yes", was a response to your question "Is it snake oil?"
 
Too many of those products are designed to sell, and not to help. The only way you can really get around liming is to punch in a very diverse mix and keep it green for years. The challenge there is, you’re gonna have low pH weeds coming like gangbusters to reclaim the hill.

A healthy mix can source far more of what it needs, in less than perfect conditions, on its own if it’s just allowed to live and collaborate with other plants and soil organisms. But that takes a year or two to build, and it’s the mycorrhizal fungi network.

greencover.com

Quorum Sensing in the Soil Microbiome » Green Cover

...In the microbial world, the term quorum sensing (QS) refers to density dependent coordinated behavior that regulates gene expression in the...
greencover.com greencover.com



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MarkDarvin said:
Too many of those products are designed to sell, and not to help. The only way you can really get around liming is to punch in a very diverse mix and keep it green for years. The challenge there is, you’re gonna have low pH weeds coming like gangbusters to reclaim the hill.

A healthy mix can source far more of what it needs, in less than perfect conditions, on its own if it’s just allowed to live and collaborate with other plants and soil organisms. But that takes a year or two to build, and it’s the mycorrhizal fungi network.

greencover.com

Quorum Sensing in the Soil Microbiome » Green Cover

...In the microbial world, the term quorum sensing (QS) refers to density dependent coordinated behavior that regulates gene expression in the...
greencover.com greencover.com



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
While some weeds are problematic, plants that are "weeds" for farmers are often great deer food.
 
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