Advice needed

[Jeremy Richards]

I have noticed down the old dirt road we use to frequent our hunting lease that there is a specific area that has massive deer trails crossing the road.I'd say at least 3 or 4 and all of them are nearby each other. They are also near a small depression in the land which is on both sides of the road. The depression on the right side which is mature pines is much deeper. The one on the left side of the road is no deeper than a ditch maybe 8 feet deep and 5 feet wide. This area is very very thick clearcut small pines of maybe 3- 5 years old. I wanted to check out the depression in there and see if I could find anything and so I made my way through the thickness around 11 am and finally when I found the depression there was a massive deer trail in there that looked like a super highway. inside the depression which was just across the deer trail was magnolia trees which were very tall and would tower above the small pine thicket I was in.I noticed the heavy trail crossed the depression in favor of the prevailing wind. I just looked around and made notes then headed back out. My question is should I make a trail that I can access this are and set up a stand maybe in the magnolia tree in the depression or should i just stay out of there and hunt on the other side of the road? This is something that has always around my curiosity and made me wonder. I personally don't think that any mature buck is going to come out of that cover and cross the road during daylight hours. I am posting my lease it is labeled Number 1. Just across the street you'll see an area circled that is not numbered thats the other depression I was talking about. In any case someone tell me where the best areas to hut on this map are

 

[wbpdeer]

If you had a stand in the Magnolia tree would you have shooting lanes without doing much pruning? If you had to prune, how many shooting lanes would you have?

How far is the Magnolia tree from the road crossing?

My mindset is I would use game cameras to tell me the best place to hunt and whether that was an AM set or a PM set. Also, I would scout the woods to find the best location to hunt. Water, Security and Food are the three important facts to determine. Deer bed where they bed.

When pressure occurs, deer head for the thickest areas they can find that have the least amount of intrusion from humans. You are in lower Bama so your rut is later than what my area has.

A game camera will tell you if and what time the bucks cross the road. If a hot doe crosses your road, there are certain times of daylight a buck will be close behind her.

 

[Jeremy Richards]

If you had a stand in the Magnolia tree would you have shooting lanes without doing much pruning? If you had to prune, how many shooting lanes would you have?

How far is the Magnolia tree from the road crossing?

My mindset is I would use game cameras to tell me the best place to hunt and whether that was an AM set or a PM set. Also, I would scout the woods to find the best location to hunt. Water, Security and Food are the three important facts to determine. Deer bed where they bed.

When pressure occurs, deer head for the thickest areas they can find that have the least amount of intrusion from humans. You are in lower Bama so your rut is later than what my area has.

A game camera will tell you if and what time the bucks cross the road. If a hot doe crosses your road, there are certain times of daylight a buck will be close behind her.

Thats jut the thing .... at this point in the season is it going to be a bad idea to prune lanes and set a stand that deep into the pine thicket which will make a lot of noise. Honestly I cant say I'd have any more than 1 shot on the main trial line and that would be with a bow. maybe a 10 -15 yard shot at the most. truth is i didin't climb the magnolia tree so I have no idea what can or cannot be seen from the top of it. I guess what I am asking is it even a decent idea? Do more professional hunters hunt areas like this or not? I could put a camera on it and see whats on that trail line. I was thinking maybe theres an easier way to stalk the same buck in the thicket without having to go into the thicket and risk making so much noise. That is why I was inquiring about the depression on the right side of the road. At the trails crossing the road from the main trail in the thicket lead to that depression. It makes sense due that it is the path of least resistance and thick security. I do have access to that ravine from the North without making so much noise and all. Only problem is that the sign in board is directly behind this place and its a shame really. This lease has no white oaks, its all pines and some hardwoods but none that produce a source of food. We haev been suffering a drought down here and our green fields still havent began to grow any. I am thinking that the only hardwoods i have seen are on the back side of where i am seeing the depression in the thick pines. If thats the case it would make sense as to why the deer are frequenting that area more. Even so later as pressure mounts the deer seek shelter in such places to avoid hunters and my question is should i hunt there? will i spook the deer ? so many questions ..... This club is made of of mostly clearcut pines 3-5 years old so I figure I might as well learn how to hunt this kind of property which is why I am asking.
BTW thank you for your reply...

 

[wbpdeer]

I read - "This club is made of mostly clearcut pines 3-5 years old..." To me you have two choices: 1) get inside of it (may be good for 2017 if done in off season) or 2) hunt the edge of the clearcut.

Option 2 has to be good for the current season. Put on your walking boots and find where do enter and exit. Those spots may be two way spots or just a one way spot. If you find a preferred entrance and exit location where bucks feel secure you will be in the chips. Low impact - avoiding the deer knowing you have set up shop - will be important to make a stand location productive.

To be a good picker of stand locations, one has to be great at seeing the details and spending time in the woods / edge setting. My son is a gifted hunter at picking stand sites.

This will not be a pick one stand approach. If you pick 6 hunting locations, we would hope 2 of them prove to be productive. You are a part-time deer hunter and they are a full time deer. Friend you are in their living room and rutting area - that means the odds are in their favor.

For now, hunt the edge and or 2017 you can get inside those areas with advance preparation. Getting inside may be 20 to 40 yards but the deer feel safe just the cover because they have been safe.

What contributes to a preferred safe zone location: food, water, security and at certain times "sweet smelling does."

Enjoy the journey. Chasing them is part of the thrill.

 

[wbpdeer]

Your comment about one location being next to a sign in board. Don't always assume a buck moves to avoid human activity. Some bucks have nerves of steel and will stay tight to their bed. Have you ever hunted a big mature buck in a city setting? Those deer are exceptional at understanding human activity and normal human activity.

Put a camera on that area and you might be surprised to know the deer hold tight in close proximity to human comings and goings. The deer's nose, ears and eyes are his senses but to get old he has to make survival decisions.

Long way to say - don't rule that location out. If there is zero ground scent but noise close by - you never know. That deer knows car engines and car doors.

If humans walk thru that area daily then that area is probably a poor hunting location. I don't understand all of the details.

I do know that on some large management areas in TN some of the best deer get killed right beside the roads because a few hunters know the bucks are patterning the hunters. There are hunters that get so far behind all of the other hunters by accessing the most remote locations. There are hunters that hunt where there are absence of hunting (right beside the road) where they can name the color of the vehicle that drives down the road.

Some stands pan out and some just don't.

 

[Fish]

My dad was a master and finding fresh sign and capitalizing on it. He was a very aggressive hunter.
So it's a choice. Go in there on stealth mode and hang that stand. Saw what you have to and do it quietly, which i understand is not always going to be perfect.
You have found a high traffic area. You could burn it up after hunting it a few times, but the reasons they are using it will be the same next year.
Experience tells us when to jump into those spots and when to stay out. Theres only one way to learn.

 

[Chainsaw]

Hunting tight here requires a steady wind;light and variable guaranties I'll be found out and see zero deer while alerting all of them. The right kind of day to hunt it is so key. Walking the entire trail after the season watching for stand sites and then picking the ones with the best access is a good way to go. I like to place a few sticks in the spring at the chosen stand sites to help me be hidden while hunting directly on the ground and to clear all sticks at the site and major noise makers from planned entry paths. A camo blanket over you helps block some of your movements from incoming deer. Figure on getting only one hunt per year out of each stand site when hunting so tight. Mornings work best for me in those close quarters.
Also it is good to park on the opposite side of the road from where your secret hot spot is and even up the road quite a ways to throw off any visitors.

 

[wbpdeer]

Trail Rake 36 inches

I spent money on the rake below for clearing a trail down a steep ridge to get me to an AM stand without alerting deer in the bean field in the bottom. It is great for creating scrapes, clearing trails, creating a lick, leveling mulch in the yard or grading gravel in a greenhouse or driveway.

It is thick aluminum which keeps the weight down. I purchased it at Tractor Supply. It is cheaper here than if you purchased a similar type rake sold by a sporting goods for a ball diamond.

Chainsaw provided good information about clearing the path of noise makers. This is what I use now as opposed to a normal size garden rake.

Chainsaw I like your idea about a blanket. Thanks

 

[Chainsaw]

Trail Rake 36 inches

I spent money on the rake below for clearing a trail down a steep ridge to get me to an AM stand without alerting deer in the bean field in the bottom. It is great for creating scrapes, clearing trails, creating a lick, leveling mulch in the yard or grading gravel in a greenhouse or driveway.

It is thick aluminum which keeps the weight down. I purchased it at Tractor Supply. It is cheaper here than if you purchased a similar type rake sold by a sporting goods for a ball diamond.

Chainsaw provided good information about clearing the path of noise makers. This is what I use now as opposed to a normal size garden rake.

Chainsaw I like your idea about a blanket. Thanks

You are welcome on the blanket idea; I actually learned it from my wife who purchased a couple of blankets and a couple of vinyls to put under our cushions to sit on the ground. She has even made herself a 200 gram thinsulate blanket for cold weather. I just use the thin camo blanket bought from Joannes' Fabric that she originally purchased. It is amazing how a mature deer can stare at you sitting on the ground at 10 yards away and then go about his business fully relaxed. I credit Anne's blanket idea to many of my up close from the ground bucks.

I also like your idea of a wider aluminum rake for removing the noise makers around a stand site. I go to Tractor Supply often and will check out their aluminum rakes. Thank you for passing that on.

 

[wbpdeer]

I finally did attached the photo of the rake. It is now in the post above.

 

[Jeremy Richards]

Your comment about one location being next to a sign in board. Don't always assume a buck moves to avoid human activity. Some bucks have nerves of steel and will stay tight to their bed. Have you ever hunted a big mature buck in a city setting? Those deer are exceptional at understanding human activity and normal human activity.

Put a camera on that area and you might be surprised to know the deer hold tight in close proximity to human comings and goings. The deer's nose, ears and eyes are his senses but to get old he has to make survival decisions.

Long way to say - don't rule that location out. If there is zero ground scent but noise close by - you never know. That deer knows car engines and car doors.

If humans walk thru that area daily then that area is probably a poor hunting location. I don't understand all of the details.

I do know that on some large management areas in TN some of the best deer get killed right beside the roads because a few hunters know the bucks are patterning the hunters. There are hunters that get so far behind all of the other hunters by accessing the most remote locations. There are hunters that hunt where there are absence of hunting (right beside the road) where they can name the color of the vehicle that drives down the road.

Some stands pan out and some just don't.

I went hunting this morning for about 4 hours and saw a couple of does which I passed. I was thinking about what you said about hunting th edges and decided that I would go have a few looks. Just across the road from where I was hunting this morning is the property line and the edge of the pine thicket. It looked too thick to access so I just hopped the property line to get back there and was quickly on our land once again. As I walked along I started to notice many mature white oaks on the property line or very near it. I saw some rubs that looked a few weeks old and some trails coming out of the thicket and entering the woods adjoining our property. I remembered the big trail i told oyu I found behind the sign in board and I was thinking that it most likely came out right there on the property line somewhere so I decided to keep walking and I could see the trees marked for our line so I was not worried about trespassing. I kept on walking and saw a few more small trails but they didn't look like they were a main travel route like the one I was looking for so as I kept on walking maybe 4 or 500 yards I noticed that the property started to drop off like walking down a mountain side but only not as steep. it was flooded with mature white oak tress like I have never seen. I knew I was entering a prime feeding area so I carefully looked around for deer sign and just as I came to the bottom of the hill I saw a heavy trail coming out of the thicket. It was massive just like the one in the pine thicket behind the sign in board. I felt it was the same trail and a feeling of excitement that I have longed for overcame me. I was in awe at the trail it was trodden so bad that it was maybe 5 or 6 inches lower than the surrounding forrest floor. I slowly walked by and followed it to see where it exited and to my surprise it led straight to the are where my friend saw 3 big bucks crossing the road and entering our property. It has to be the route they are using and it makes perfect sense that no one is seeing them because this route is entirely hidden from everyone as it goes through the thicket and exits our property on the back side. I decided to hang my camera on the hillside facing the heavy trail and I left quietly. Back at the top of the hill I pondered on where I would hang my stand. Should I hang it on the hillside or in the bottom? Seems more likely that I would be less visible and winded if I did. If I put my back to the adjoining property I will have a N/NW wind in my face and be much less likely to get winded. I am curious what you think of this ?

 

[wbpdeer]

Jeremy,

You did a good job investigating. The best hunters I know spend 2 or 3 hours scouting for every hour they have on stand.

What I think is you should have at least two stands in that area - not eggs in one basket. I think you keep your mouth shut about what you found or you will get crowded real fast.

Are you going to hunt the trails or the white oaks? The more stands you hang the better your chances will be. Some of them will just be right and or whatever reason some will never be as productive as you think they will.

If the white oaks are on your property - that is a great find. From my experience, when they drop the deer show up.

Today's scouting was an effective use of time for your future hunting trips.

I suggest you write down everything you saw and learned. If you don't want to write it down - type it into a computer file. As you hunt that area, you will learn much more about the wind and what it does there. Structure changes how the wind ebbs and flows and swirls.

How many stands do you hang when you hunt? Can you buy or borrow to add to the number? All eggs in one basket hurts your chances IMO.

RULE - Whitetail deer are edge animals!!!!

Last thing - loose lips sink ships. Keep to yourself what you found.

 

[wbpdeer]

Jeremy,

Is it bow season or gun season in your area right now? If it gun, you can move your stands back from the area to avoid detection better. If it is bow season, then you have to be in effective bow range to close the deal. As gun hunters, I think we crowd the deer too much. As bow hunters we have to get close.

The area you just hung your camera, where is it on the map - north, south, east or west? Just trying to narrow it down in my mind.

 

[Jeremy Richards]

Jeremy,

You did a good job investigating. The best hunters I know spend 2 or 3 hours scouting for every hour they have on stand.

What I think is you should have at least two stands in that area - not eggs in one basket. I think you keep your mouth shut about what you found or you will get crowded real fast.

Are you going to hunt the trails or the white oaks? The more stands you hang the better your chances will be. Some of them will just be right and or whatever reason some will never be as productive as you think they will.

If the white oaks are on your property - that is a great find. From my experience, when they drop the deer show up.

Today's scouting was an effective use of time for your future hunting trips.

I suggest you write down everything you saw and learned. If you don't want to write it down - type it into a computer file. As you hunt that area, you will learn much more about the wind and what it does there. Structure changes how the wind ebbs and flows and swirls.

How many stands do you hang when you hunt? Can you buy or borrow to add to the number? All eggs in one basket hurts your chances IMO.

RULE - Whitetail deer are edge animals!!!!

Last thing - loose lips sink ships. Keep to yourself what you found.

Yes sir! I was thinking I might place 1 stand on the line just off the hillside that'll offer me a good shot on the trail line I found and then I would place another in the white oaks somewhere that will be downwind and offer me a fe decent shots. most likely further back on the trail where it lead to the road where the deer crossed. I am making me a journal of this property and my findings. It takes a long time to find all the needed clues to successfully hunt an area. Also when I found that big trail today I was just halfway down the property line. I was afraid to cross that trail. ( I scent wash and wear scentlok gear as well as rubber boots, which are sprayed down) but even still I was afraid to cross. I have been sick wondering what was further down lol. Do you think I should cross that trail and investigate further?It is possible I could find another trail like the one I found today. I just don't want to get ahead of myself. Another question I wanted to ask you is do you follow Major Migration and feeding time charts? I have an App on my phone that has a solunar calendar and weather forecast on it and today it said the a.m. major was from 8 am to 11 am and thats what I hunted and saw 2 doe. I did not go into the woods till 6:30 am. help me understand the hours I should hunt and why?
Right now I have 3 hangers, 1 climber and 2 shoot houses up. I just got my new ladder stick the other day and assembled it for a new stand site. They are usually 20 feet high and really reliable. much easier to hide and i like them. I was gonna hang that ladder stick and a hanger on the trail I found today. I will have to take a stand down from somewhere and move it to set a second one which I will do but I think I will just set 1 tomorrow and then another next week I want to be as quiet and discreet as possible. I really appreciate your posts you are a blessing thank you!

 

[Jeremy Richards]

Yes sir! I was thinking I might place 1 stand on the line just off the hillside that'll offer me a good shot on the trail line I found and then I would place another in the white oaks somewhere that will be downwind and offer me a fe decent shots. most likely further back on the trail where it lead to the road where the deer crossed. I am making me a journal of this property and my findings. It takes a long time to find all the needed clues to successfully hunt an area. Also when I found that big trail today I was just halfway down the property line. I was afraid to cross that trail. ( I scent wash and wear scentlok gear as well as rubber boots, which are sprayed down) but even still I was afraid to cross. I have been sick wondering what was further down lol. Do you think I should cross that trail and investigate further?It is possible I could find another trail like the one I found today. I just don't want to get ahead of myself. Another question I wanted to ask you is do you follow Major Migration and feeding time charts? I have an App on my phone that has a solunar calendar and weather forecast on it and today it said the a.m. major was from 8 am to 11 am and thats what I hunted and saw 2 doe. I did not go into the woods till 6:30 am. help me understand the hours I should hunt and why?
Right now I have 3 hangers, 1 climber and 2 shoot houses up. I just got my new ladder stick the other day and assembled it for a new stand site. They are usually 20 feet high and really reliable. much easier to hide and i like them. I was gonna hang that ladder stick and a hanger on the trail I found today. I will have to take a stand down from somewhere and move it to set a second one which I will do but I think I will just set 1 tomorrow and then another next week I want to be as quiet and discreet as possible. I really appreciate your posts you are a blessing thank you!

Jeremy,

Is it bow season or gun season in your area right now? If it gun, you can move your stands back from the area to avoid detection better. If it is bow season, then you have to be in effective bow range to close the deal. As gun hunters, I think we crowd the deer too much. As bow hunters we have to get close.

The area you just hung your camera, where is it on the map - north, south, east or west? Just trying to narrow it down in my mind.

It is both gun and bow, I honestly love my bow more than my gun regardless. It is not one of the circled areas on the map I sent you. I will see if I can re edit the map and post it just be patient with me. It is on the left side of the road being West. Okay I just looked at the map. If you look you'll see a section circled number 1. Directly behind that is a field in the thick pines then the property line. It is right at the property line directly behind the number 1 circle to the left of that is the unexplored area I told you I was afraid to access due to raising alarms with deer. If you'll look closely you'll see the drop off I am referring to. The deer trail heads Northwest just behind the greenfield and off the property to God knows where.

Jeremy,

Is it bow season or gun season in your area right now? If it gun, you can move your stands back from the area to avoid detection better. If it is bow season, then you have to be in effective bow range to close the deal. As gun hunters, I think we crowd the deer too much. As bow hunters we have to get close.

The area you just hung your camera, where is it on the map - north, south, east or west? Just trying to narrow it down in my mind.

 

[wbpdeer]

Is it gun or bow season? The answer to the first question determines a great deal about what you do or don't do.

Where on the map is the camera at?

Spray your boots right there in the woods and cross that trail. If you get a light rain, that is a great time to cruise the trails. Your scent will not be as troublesome due to the rainfall.

You have not scouted this lease very much. There is no substitute for walking the ground and studying the ground. That should be a goal you address in the off season. Go as slow you need to see and observe the important details. Make good notes. How many acres is the lease? How many hunters are on the lease?

Moving stands is part of being an effective and aggressive hunter.

 

[wbpdeer]

If you are reworking the map, mark the property lines in a red line. North goes to the top of the map. I am just trying to help.

I am leaving tomorrow headed to Ohio for their Shotgun opening day Monday at daylight. So tonight is all you get from me for some time.

I love bow over gun also.

 

[Jeremy Richards]

Is it gun or bow season? The answer to the first question determines a great deal about what you do or don't do.

Where on the map is the camera at?

Spray your boots right there in the woods and cross that trail. If you get a light rain, that is a great time to cruise the trails. Your scent will not be as troublesome due to the rainfall.

You have not scouted this lease very much. There is no substitute for walking the ground and studying the ground. That should be a goal you address in the off season. Go as slow you need to see and observe the important details. Make good notes. How many acres is the lease? How many hunters are on the lease?

Moving stands is part of being an effective and aggressive hunter.

There is 800 acres now, we subleased 300 that will be added next year and possibly acquire 400 more just down the road across the creek which is where I think the deer are funneling to. so for now 800 acres and we have 7 members. Most don't hunt much they are always working weeks and there on weekends which gives me the club to myself.
I did try to get as much scouting and work done as I could in the few months I had before season began but I was not able to do as much as I had hoped. This being my first year there I believe i will be a much better hunter next year with your help lol.
As for my camera location it is right at the property line just off that side of the hill which is the Northeast side, the trail is on the Northwest side closer to the bottom. I have some pictures of my scouting journals I will attach for you and you can see I will mark the trail cam too.

 

[wbpdeer]

Sounds like a good lease. You don't want all hard core hunters on your lease it will hurt your chances. Mark boundary in red, mark the roads in yellow. Mark camera in blue, mark your stands with a White X. Mark your major trails in green. Do some hard fast rules on labels.

Right now you are hunting 800 acres. What does each lease member pay?

 

[Jeremy Richards]

If you are reworking the map, mark the property lines in a red line. North goes to the top of the map. I am just trying to help.

I am leaving tomorrow headed to Ohio for their Shotgun opening day Monday at daylight. So tonight is all you get from me for some time.

I love bow over gun also.

Okay This is a Hybrid upload of the land which is much better. you will see the yellow marker at the property line which is the darker shade of woods and thats where my camera is. the heavy trail I found is just to the left of that camera maybe 15 yards. The red emblem is the heavy trail I found behind the sign out board.

Sounds like a good lease. You don't want all hard core hunters on your lease it will hurt your chances. Mark boundary in red, mark the roads in yellow. Mark camera in blue, mark your stands with a White X. Mark your major trails in green. Do some hard fast rules on labels.

Right now you are hunting 800 acres. What does each lease member pay?

Yeah I like it with less members its not bad. I pay 963 a year. He said that next year if he jons the other properties he will add members to keep the price at 1000 if he has to. I need time to work on my map like you need it. Let me finish that stand we talked about and I will get that map done next week and just holler at me when you get back. I enjoy talking to you. I have never had anyone to tech me stuff like this I had to learn the hard way. I just tried to upload a Hybrid map but it wont upload so ignore that till I can get one up okay. Good luck on oyur hunt and be sure to share a pic of your deer. I would love to see your trophy room one day if possible.